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Author Topic: Toad gender  (Read 7663 times)

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« on: November 18, 2014, 10:45:14 PM »
Toads are an asexual (in the biological sense) species who choose their own gender identities, according to the producer of Captain Toad.
(that link suddenly stopped working for me in the few minutes since I started writing this post, so here's a cached version in case)

This makes sense, considering the Yoshi's Island series implies that sexual reproduction doesn't exist in the Mushroom World anyway, even for humans (or a species that at least appears human). But if this is a common and accepted thing in the Mushroom World, why is Birdo/Birdetta treated like a joke?

(Also: Captain Toad and Toadette are not siblings, but also not dating -- "it would be more accurate to say they are adventure pals"; whether there's any cannibalistic relation between Toads and power-up mushrooms is "one of the great mysteries of the Mario universe.")
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 03:23:31 AM »
re: Birdo

It's not treated like a joke in-story is it?

« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 07:52:19 PM »
Congratulations to Nintendo for introducing the first ever asexual genderfluid video game protagonist.
Relics.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 06:44:26 AM »
The undertone I'm getting is "so we're cool after the Tomodachi Life thing now, right?"
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 09:42:53 AM »
I'm a male


I'm ok with them being able to pick their own identities, but does that mean there's more than one Toad character now (the main Toad. I get that they're all called Toads..)
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2014, 07:21:51 PM »
Why would it mean that?

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 11:48:56 PM »
Someone on Miiverse brought up the question of if Toads are all genderfluid and don't reproduce sexually, why do they all still end up in relationships and gender expressions that look like heterosexual marriages? Real world explanations are pretty obvious, but can there be an in-universe explanation? The theory offered was that when Peach's human ancestors conquered the Toads generations ago, they imposed their own gender roles on the Toads. Of course, one of the problems with this theory is that, canonically, Mushroom World humans don't reproduce sexually either - Peach, like Mario and Luigi, was delivered by stork.

I also found out that the Miiverse profanity filter will let you say "sexless", but not "sex". So why can't I have a Pokémon named after my cat Spicy or an Animal Crossing pattern named after Jeff Andonuts?
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2014, 12:03:50 AM »
Well Mario's world, like most places in fictionland, treats love itself as a mystical ethereal force that binds people together. So it'd stand to reason that Toads would have relationships and get married; The Power of Love™ compels it.

« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2014, 09:05:32 PM »
I'm kinda annoyed "omg Toad are teh genderless" is treated as a fact when Hayashida's statement is actually a lot more ambiguous. Quoting a friend:

Quote
Frankly, that article has problems. Only three direct quotes were provided. One explicitly put the kibosh on Toad and Toadette being siblings ("But I think what I can say is that Toadette and Toad are not siblings -- perhaps it would be more accurate to say they are adventure pals. And that’s certainly true here [in Captain Toad]"), but the one about Toad genders is actually a lot more ambiguous than the article's writer leads us to believe: "This is maybe a little bit of a strange story, but we never really went out of our way to decide on the sex of these characters, even though they have somewhat gendered appearances" - that's all we can be sure that Koichi Hayashida said, and frankly, that sounds like like Nintendo's stance on Toad genders is "lol idk", not "nope, no genders, they just take on gendered roles" (whatever the hell that even means). And really, given Nintendo's fondness for whitewashing plot and making things ambiguous (i.e. "Toad and Toadette are not siblings"), "lol idk" actually seems like a much more believable stance than what the article's writer's proposing.

I wish Gamespot would post the actual interview. The full context and content of what the dude said would make the whole thing a lot more credible . The third and final quote isn't even understandable without the article text framing it: "Hayashida clarified that Toads are not mushrooms at all, but the resemblance and nomenclature is too uncanny not to wonder. “This particular riddle might stay unsolved,” Hayashida said. “That’s one of the great mysteries of the Mario universe.”" - seeing as the paragraph above that was acting like one mushroom eating another mushroom is cannibalism, maybe all he was saying is that they're not the same as Super Mushrooms and whatnot.

Hell, the whole cannibalism is idiotic nonsense. If one species of mushroom (i.e. a Toad or Goomba) is a cannibal for eating a completely unrelated species (i.e. a Super Mushroom or a 1-Up Shroom), then you might as say we're cannibals for eating unrelated species of mammals like cows or pigs. That's not how that word works.

« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2014, 10:23:01 PM »
The important question is, how do they pee?
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 12:30:22 AM »
When were Toad and Toadette ever considered siblings? I've always seen them as "male mushroom person" and "female mushroom person", for the most part.
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 04:32:57 PM »
I remember the Prima guide for Double Dash calling them brother and sister, but you know how those are just pinnacles of informational accuracy, right?

Them being siblings sounds like of those things that people conjecturally assume, like Wario being Mario's cousin or other such nonsense.

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2014, 07:09:50 PM »
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2014, 10:32:46 PM »
Time to toss in a wrench--what about Super Mario RPG?

It's been a while since I played the game, but I do specifically remember two Toads getting married. There was also a Toad who had a son if I remember right (actually, I think there were several Toads with kids). Given the recent revelations, I'm guessing they chose those genders...or did the parents do it for them?

RPG wasn't the first Mario game I played, and I do remember multiple Toads on screen at a time in others (Super Mario 64 comes to mind) so I was always curious to whether they were all related or whatnot. I recall a bunch of Toads hanging together in Sunshine, and I think they were all "male".

Everyone mentions Toadette, but I really think she was just introduced to balance out the number of male and female characters in Double Dash--aside from her you had Peach, Daisy, and (maybe) Birdo.

Come to think of it, every Toad identified as "male" up until Toadette's debut with the huge exception of Super Mario RPG. (Unless there were "females" in Paper Mario; I actually haven't played through that one).

I know the recent articles have said he's not a mushroom, but if we do take fungi into account, they could reproduce via spores. I don't want to get too in-depth biologically here in terms of how fungi reproduce, but if Toads have any hint of fungi in them, it could explain something.

« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2014, 08:59:23 PM »
PM and TTYD had a handful of female Toads such Tayce T. ,Jolene, and the three travelling Toad sisters, but the majority are male or at least appear to be.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

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