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Author Topic: Cheating AI makes me angry.  (Read 27652 times)

« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2003, 05:53:36 PM »
Also, in MK:DD, if an AI is in 1st place in 100cc or 150cc, it seems to magically speed up as if it was getting infinite Triple Mushrooms.
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2003, 07:23:52 PM »
"Technically it is not cheating if the game AI makes them do it, its not like they have a choice. Blame the game programmers."

I don't know if you were being serious or not, Birdo, but I couldn't help but laugh at that.

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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2003, 08:00:29 PM »
<sarcasm>Seriously, I hate the game.  What idiot thought of making video games challenging?</sarcasm>

Seriously though, the computer players aren't exactly cheating.  They're programmed to have  the advantage so you have to beat them with the odds against you.  Most people complain about games being too easy.  Think about it.  Games aren't like oxygen percentage in the air.  If there was a slightly smaller percentage, we can't breathe.  If there is a little more, we'll become too flammable and burn up.  If they "cheat", we should be glad it's challenging.  If it's easy, we should be glad we beat it.  Besides, what are we supposed to do, write a letter to Nintendo saying that we want them to alter the game so it's easier?  Then again, we could go back in time and stop them from making it so hard... hmm...*runs to secret laboratory*

Actually, I find the CPs fine.  So what if they have the advantage?  Just makes it so much more satisfying when you beat them and leave them crying in the dirt!  BWAHAHAHAHAA!  Ahem. Sorry! XD

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« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2004, 08:56:15 PM »
I have something interesting to add to all this:

In MK64, if you finish the race at the same time as a CP, the same hundredth of a second, the CP wins. I found this out against Yoshi in Wario Stadium. I wonder what the odds of ending at exactly the same hundredth of a second are.

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« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2004, 10:21:32 PM »
The AI is fone for me. MK64 was where I had a problem.

And Meowrik, Kirby Air Ride, I suppose, for the Gamecube has a fair AI, they don't cheat or anything like that. Great game.

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Mario likes to dance in his backwards pants! Yay!
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2004, 07:50:59 PM »
I have something to add to the Cheating AI in MK:DD!!. To make sure that the karts in the back ranks stay behind the entire race, whenever the back person of a kart gets a mushroom, the game makes them switch so he can't use it immediately.

Also, did anyone notice that win a kart wins a race, the game keeps the kart in their order (i.e. First being followed by Second, Second being followed by Third). So, if you got the Leader Shell hit you as soon as you cross the finish line, it is usual that the other karts go past. But those karts suddenly slow down and yours speeds up ahead of them to make sure that the order isn't disturbed.

Another thing I'd like to add- the two karts that are usually set to second and third place whilst you're in first, are programmed so the order stays the same. Say you got knocked back to 6th place somehow. Look at the map- those two that are now in First and Second seem to overlap each other- it makes sure that the person in second cannot beat the person in first, but still tries to be "competitive."

In conclusion, the order of the CPU karts is predetermined. The order never changes unless there is the human kart.

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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2004, 08:11:11 PM »
I personally haven't experienced Cheating AI in MKDD. At least, I didn't notice it if I did.

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« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2004, 08:43:21 PM »
Cheating AI makes me furious.  It is probably my single biggest pet peeve about video games.  My second biggest pet peeve is when games are too easy.  It may sound like I'm contradicting myself here, but I don't think that challenging AI has to mean cheating AI.





From a programming perspective, in a well developed AI system, the AI algorythms will be completely independent from the actual player control.  A player control model will recieve input from somewhere, but will not know if it is recieving input from an actual, human-operated controller, or an AI algorythm.  That way, the computer controlled opponent can do everything that a human controlled opponent can do, but nothing more.





If such a system were well designed, the AI could still be ridiculously challenging, but it wouldn't be have to be cheap and frustrating.  There would have to be different AI levels, so that only one opponent would have the most tallented AI model.  This would make it more likely (but would not ensure) that that opponent would always come in first or second, making the point distribution uneven and making the game more challenging.





Unfortunately, very few videogames actually incorporate the separation of AI and player control as described above, and this aggrivates me to no end.  For example, in the GBA games Advance Wars and Advance Wars 2: Black Hole Rising, the AI can cheat.  These are not real-time games, they are turned-based games resembling board games, but the AI still cheats!!!  Specifically, the AI is able to ignore fog of war.  For those of you who have played the games and know what I'm talking about, the AI is able to move a unit next to one of your concealed units in a forest, and attack that unit, in the same move.  This is impossible for a human character to do.  When a human moves next to a forest, the contents of the forest are not revealed until after the player has selected "wait," making the unit that he moved unable to attack any concealed units in the forest.  The human player may still be able to bring in another unit to attack the enemy's unit in the forest, but the AI doesn't need to do this.  The AI can reveal and attack your concealed unit in the same move.  [wtd] Nintendo!!?? Fog of War is such a kick-@$$ idea but it is completely meaningless if it doesn't affect the AI!! I'm mad! MAD!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!





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Edited by - Hirocon on 3/7/2004 6:45:48 PM


Hirocon

  • June 14-16, every year
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2004, 08:52:15 PM »
And in Time Splitters 2, the AI doesn't even pretend to be realistic!!! Computer controlled bots can perform dives, rolls, and slides when entering rooms, for which there is simply no huamn-controlled equivalent!!!  And even if you know that the computer is going to roll out of the way, and aim accordingly, the bullets just bounce harmlessly off until the computer controlled opponent is back on its feet and firing at you!! And in free-for-all elimination mode, the computer always always always always ALWAYS attacks the human controlled players first!  That's not a free-for-all, Free Radical!  It's an all-against me!  AAARGH! HURAAGAH! BLAARAGARAHA!!!!!





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« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2004, 09:59:53 PM »
Every time I see this topic, I see a lower case L after the A, instead of a capitol I.
And I wonder, "Who's this 'Al' person, and why's everybody so mad at him?"

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« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2004, 09:17:51 PM »
XD
That was a joke.

« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2012, 05:48:30 PM »
Time for another round of "Bobbysq brings dead topics back to life!"

I think the AI cheating has gotten better. I haven't noticed it in MKW, although it may happen a bit on MPDS.

« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2012, 06:14:00 PM »
In MKDS and MKW, I hate how opponents time their use of red/blue shells perfectly so they'll hit you just as you pass through an item box.
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 09:55:10 AM »
Maybe it's because I drove the already slow Toad Kart in MKDD, but I never noticed the rubber-banding as much in that game.  Although you had to really try to not keep up with 4th-8th.   MKDS CPU's are almost as bad as 64's, though; I wonder why they felt the need to bring it back.
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« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 12:01:23 PM »
While not as bad as SMK or MK64, every Mario Kart produced from then on suffers from some pretty bad rubberbanding still.

The two things that stand out as silly is, first, why they still have preset racing grids. Like if you hit a character who is the predetermined "leader" and they drop to fourth, for example, they'll be back in their original spot within 10 seconds. Same for essentially any other CPU player.

Also, starting with Mario Kart 64, when you win a race, that's just it. Whatever place the computers are in when you cross the finish line is what their place is, and the game allows them no time to finish and let it pan out. While I know it's intended to speed up the game, it can be irritating when the results for each CPU are the exact same unless you hit a player with an item just feet before the finish line. There ends up being no tension because you already know that the player destined to be second place will always be second, etc. It can also screw up Grand Prix victories, say, if you're falling behind by just a few points, it's the final race, and you know that if you can get the preset leader character to get a bad place you can end up taking the lead. Well, unless you manage to do that, like I said, within the last leg of the race, it won't happen.
Formerly quite reasonable.

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