I Don't Believe It!

[Koopaslaya]

I hereby award ten (10) points to Chupperson.

[Sapphira]

Proof?

[05/22, 22:27:40] Sapphira: why is either so "out of the question"?
[05/22, 22:27:56] Chupperson: the earth was not created before the sun and light was also not created before the sun
[05/22, 22:27:57] Sapphira: it's not like either can be absolutely proven
[05/22, 22:28:25] Chupperson: I'm sure it can be proven that the sun existed first
[05/22, 22:28:32] Sapphira: O RLY?
[05/22, 22:29:05] Chupperson: quite
[05/22, 22:29:31] Sapphira: how so?
[05/22, 22:29:38] Sapphira: prove it?
[05/22, 22:29:38] MegaByte-away: uh I think there was light before there was a sun (just not light from the sun obviously)

It's not like the sun is the only light source in the universe, and also that "light" could've, like, eminated literally from God himself before he created the physical sun.

As I said, it's not like either theory can absolutely be proven.

[G-Dawg]

Has anyone answered the question about the Dino-theory yet?

[Lizard Dude]

I'm really creeped out when people dismiss all the evidence we've gathered about stuff in the last four hundred years because it can't be absolutely proven. Well, nothing can. I kind of prefer to trust evidence, though, instead of magical tales that have no basis in anything besides a book and "deep personal feelings".

[The Chef]

I hereby award a Golden Hot Dog to LD for tht post.

[PaperLuigi]

God rocks my socks.

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

G0d roxorz nny $0x0rz!

I really have a very hard time believing that you would take the supposed order of creation literally. The sun existed long before the Earth did.
Remember when the church said that everything revolved around the Earth? How correct was that?

CW: I know.  In my opinion it would make more sense for the sun, moon, and stars to appear before the dry land and plants, but I believe God can do anything so there's no problem.  In fact, it could actually be proof that God keeps things alive with his power and not by the heat from the sun alone.  Or maybe that plants needed one day (if it is a literal one day) to have no sunlight for some reason.  I dunno.

I didn't know that the church said that, but I know that the Bible says nothing like that so someone must have come up with it on their own.  Or had a different version. XD

I'm really creeped out when people dismiss all the evidence we've gathered about stuff in the last four hundred years because it can't be absolutely proven. Well, nothing can. I kind of prefer to trust evidence, though, instead of magical tales that have no basis in anything besides a book and "deep personal feelings".

LD: Yeah, people should search for proof before they just believe whatever they want to.  But what evidence are you talking about, just curious?  Sometimes I feel worried that some of the people who discover this evidence are telling lies or hiding the truth to shape the perception of reality. (I heard about a case where, in order to prove an evolutionary theory, people glued moths to a tree and took a picture of it to put in science books.  But I need to find out more about this to see if it's really true.  Unproven rumors are worthless, of course.)

Believing in God is much more than deep feelings.  At first (for me) it was about deep feelings which I believe were from God, but those feelings aren't always there and it takes faith to know that He's there.  I know for sure these feelings are more than guilt or being moved by music, but feelings that God gives to his followers so they will remember that He is with them and they will do the right things.  Feelings can't always be trusted, and it's not about feeling good but doing good.

However, I understand that there are some people who play on feelings just to trick people and take their money, and I really don't like that.  I bet that there's different types of people with certain beliefs who use them for either good or bad purposes.  We have to be careful all the time with who we trust and test their motives.

Also, speaking of telling lies or hiding the truth, I have to admit that I don't know very much about church history so I can't say what is true and what isn't.  I just know that (sorry I say this so much) I have seen a lot of great changes in people who trust in God, and I don't believe it's coincidence.  Also, I think that if the Bible wasn't true, or the most important parts of it, that people wouldn't risk their lives to be martyred for a lie.  Maybe some would, but I doubt as many as there are.

Sorry for the bad quoting.  I did that a little late. ^_^:

[Lizard Dude]

I was talking about evidence that the sun was older than the Earth (although not by a huge amount, since the whole solar system kind of formed at once). I've heard about that moth trickery, too, somewhere. I think it's true.

What about people who risk their lives for other religions? Doesn't that make their religions true, too?

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Oops!  Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot about that. *smack* Okay, yeah there probably are a lot of different martyrs for different religions and it's impossible to know all of the motives.  I guess I was thinking of the people who tell others their religion and are threatened to be killed if they do that.  I may need to do some more thinking and studying on this.

[The Chef]

I think that it's because most religeons are really similar when you think about it.

[Koopaslaya]

Oops!  Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot about that. *smack* Okay, yeah there probably are a lot of different martyrs for different religions and it's impossible to know all of the motives.  I guess I was thinking of the people who tell others their religion and are threatened to be killed if they do that.  I may need to do some more thinking and studying on this.

Now, for the apostles, this holds true. In the early church, the apostles only had to denounce Christ, and they would be spared. If they didn't have comfidence in Christ's death and resurrection, why would they die. Of all people, they knew him the best. Why would they be willing to give up their lives for something that they knew was a farse?

[Lizard Dude]

Muslim suicide bombers are giving up their lives right and left for Islam. It must be true? Praise Allah!

[Koopaslaya]

Muslim suicide bombers are giving up their lives right and left for Islam. It must be true? Praise Allah!

Alas, they are not first hand witnesses. You see, someone who dies today for the faith may indeed be incorrect. But someone who had first hand experience with the founder of the faith and would know the real truth of the resurrection would surely not give up his life if all he had to do was reject Christ.

[Chupperson Weird]

Apparently, the Bible does state that everything revolves around the Earth. Although, I'm pretty sure this is modeled after even older ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

Also, Sapphira seems to have left out a part of our little discussion:
[21:35:13] <Chupperson> <MegaByte-away> uh I think there was light before there was a sun (just not light from the sun obviously) <-- yeah I just meant specifically from our sun

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Not only that but who the crap believes in all of those mythical creatures for. THEY DON'T EXIST, THEY'RE MYTHS!

Sorry to bump, but I just remembered something I wanted to say. 

Some creatures that people have called mythical in the past have actually turned out to be real later.  For instance, some people believed the gorilla was a monster born from a demon (I think) and that it ate people.  Then we discovered that this creature actually DID exist but it didn't act like these people said it did.  So ordinary creatures that could exist but we haven't found yet, are given super powers or legends and they make us think that they couldn't be real.  But maybe they are and just don't live like that!  Here's the link where I heard about this: http://www.newanimal.org/pongo.htm

According to African folklore, the pongo was a wild man of the jungles. Looking like a cross between a human and a monkey, he was a violent creature with magical powers. He relished the taste of human flesh, often raiding villages in order to carry away captives for purposes of cannibalism or rape. Sometimes the pongo was a shapeshifter. Female pongos would turn into beautiful women to get close to male victims, then change back to their true forms when it was too late for the men to escape. Pongos and humans could mate and produce hybrid children who looked human, but who had violent, cannibalistic urges from their pongo side.

Pongo reports were understandably met with much skepticism in the scientific community. The pongo had so many supernatural characteristics and behaviors not typical of a biological animal that it just didn't seem like it would ever turn out to be real. These aspects of the pongo from folklore squarely place it within the "big hairy monster" or "hairy biped" category of anomalous cousins of Bigfoot.

The entire world was surprised when, in 1847, the pongo (now known as the gorilla) was officially declared to exist. Of course, it didn't have any of the weird characteristics assigned to it by folklore. The real gorilla is a vegetarian, not a predator. It doesn't capture humans, it doesn't eat humans, and it can't reproduce with humans. Its official discovery hasn't stopped the flow of legends that claim otherwise, but now science can clearly separate the gorilla of myth and the real animal. Still, the animal's outlandish mythical features were acknowledged in its very name: "gorilla" is derived from the Arabic word for "ghoul."

The story of the pongo's official discovery teaches us that any cryptid, however fantastic it seems, might be real. Supernatural or fantastical characteristics are no reason to disqualify a cryptid from further investigation. In fact, European folklore from little more than a hundred years ago assigns many supernatural abilities and odd behaviors to real animals such as wolves, eagles and mice. We now know that these superstitious ideas are false, even though the animals themselves are indisputably real.

So, we should remember that we probably don't know everything about this world right now and that there's got to be plenty more great things to discover.  Not that all mythical creatures are real but not that all aren't either.  If we shut our minds to new thoughts and ideas then we set ourselves up to never learn anything new (or fool ourselves into believing lies).  The world was only flat for those who believed it was.

(I said all of that stuff just as a reminder and not to anyone in particular)