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Author Topic: Mario & Luigi 3 is officially the highest rated handheld game ever made.  (Read 19209 times)

« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2009, 02:27:04 PM »
In my humble-ish opinion,

M&L:SS > M&L:BiS > dog excrement > M&L:PiT.

While numbers one and three of the series are nearly neck-and-neck in for first my books, Partners in Time pales in comparison. As for why Superstar Saga is my favourite, it seems as though everything I like most about Bowser's inside Story are the elements retained from the first game.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Reading

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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2009, 06:27:15 PM »
I haven't beaten Bowser's Inside Story yet, but I'm a good way through it, and I do think it's up there with Superstar Saga. Partners in Time is my least favorite in the series (as well as my least favorite of all the Mario RPGs)...but I don't dislike it. Can someone tell me why it's so hated?
We went to see them for the first time in 5 years because they were going away for 3 years.

CrossEyed7

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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2009, 06:34:07 PM »
It's the only Mario RPG that's just pretty good instead of awesome, and so it seems to suck in comparison.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2009, 06:47:17 PM »
You couldn't have said it better. While SMRPG, PM, PM:TTYD, M&L:SS and M&L:BiS all received 8.5's and 9's from most reviewers, M&L:PiT lingered in the 6.5's and 7's, which, in my moronic and unethical opinion, it deserved.

Take that, Warp.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2009, 06:53:03 PM »
But I think that PiT, like Sunshine, would have been considered a significantly better game if it hadn't been a Mario game. Mario games come with much higher expectations than games in general.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Forest Guy

  • Anything else?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2009, 06:57:52 PM »
My mistake, when I checked Metacritic a few days ago it was scoring higher than GTA, but I didn't check when I made this topic. It's still higher on Gamestats however, which takes user review scores from other sites into its tally as well. My bad, I should've checked.


And WarpRattler, my point wasn't "Go out and buy this game immediately now that you know it's scored highly on a couple of reviews." I was trying to show that I found it remarkable that it's scoring highly from virtually everyone, and that on Gamestats, it's the highest handheld game ever rated. See, I can agree with you on the idea that it's dumb to base a purchase off one review. However, when a game gets universal acclaim like that, it's a big deal.

P.S.CrossEyed put it well. Partners in Time is by no means a bad game. It's just not a fantastic game like every other Mario RPG game.
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WarpRattler

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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2009, 07:28:10 PM »
M&L:PiT lingered in the 6.5's and 7's
Making up numbers will make you no friends.

Meowrik: Taking user reviews into account only serves to defeat the purpose of aggregating the opinions of professional critics. When you aren't getting paid to play video games and write about them, you can say whatever you want - even to the point of making up stuff about games you've never played, or giving high ratings to awful games (see: Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing). GameStats, therefore, sounds like it's worse than Metacritic simply because it allows for trolls to influence aggregated scores.

You can't just act like a game being universally acclaimed is a big deal and a reason to buy a game, either, and to show why, I don't need to go any further than Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance. I wish I could say it wasn't an accident that the US serial for the game is AGB-ACHE-USA.

Forest Guy

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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2009, 07:35:04 PM »
But as I repeat, I didn't say to buy the game simply because it's scoring highly.
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WarpRattler

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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2009, 07:43:25 PM »
No. You said it's a big deal when a game is universally acclaimed, when it definitely isn't (both because a lot of games are "universally acclaimed" and because sometimes the critics are wrong).

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2009, 09:18:50 PM »
This seems like an argument people would be having about some quirky sleeper hit. Does anyone here really need review scores to tell them a Mario RPG is going to be, at the very least, pretty good?

As for why I dislike PiT, I'm sure I've said this before, but it was too linear, formulaic, and short--I think they were trying to cram the game so the maps for areas could all fit on the top screen--hence those blue pipes every now and then. Bros. Items were overly necessary, too.

However, PiT (and SS) did have something that I think was lacking in BiS: A reasonable amount of interesting areas. I figure that the overworld areas in BiS skimped on uniqueness (the generic and generically named Blubble Lake and Dimble Wood come to mind. Also, what is up with Plack Beach? Since when has poor dental health had anything to do with Mario?) because Bowser's body was the main focus, but that wasn't all that mindblowing, either.

Also, I've noticed that Wigglers living in forests, theaters, and being inside something else's body are parts of all three M&L games.

And finally:

--M&L: Bean-related enemies
--PiT: Shroob-related enemies
--BiS: Fawful-related enemies

Oh, and the BiS final battle music kicks ass.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2009, 10:33:29 PM »
Also, I've noticed that Wigglers living in forests, theaters, and being inside something else's body are parts of all three M&L games.

If you count the Koopaseum as a theater, at any rate... 

I'm very surprised at how high the scores given for PiT were, it certainly didn't deserve a 10 (and probably a 9, for that matter) from anyone, IMO. "In the 6.5's and 7's" is more where I would've expected it to be.
If she is indeed genetically mutated such that she has an eye in the back of her head, then I guess that she is genetically mutated and has an eye in the back of her head.

Forest Guy

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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2009, 12:42:14 AM »
No. You said it's a big deal when a game is universally acclaimed, when it definitely isn't (both because a lot of games are "universally acclaimed" and because sometimes the critics are wrong).

It definitely is. Because contrary to what you said, there isn't a plethora of games that scores highly everywhere it gets reviewed. More often than not, there's always a handful of reviews out there who will not like a game. Games that score highly everywhere are the ones that become instant classics like Metal Gear Solid, Ocarina of Time, and Mario Galaxy.
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WarpRattler

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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2009, 11:39:45 AM »
Those one or two that score a game much lower than everyone else (or score a bad game highly) are called "outliers." When aggregating game reviews, they can't be ignored, but when deciding whether or not something is "universally acclaimed," they can. Many games, therefore, could be considered "universally acclaimed" despite one or two reviewers who didn't like them (or even didn't like them as much as everyone else).

Another reason why to not base things on review scores: there are entire genres where the average score is going to be skewed down or up simply because of the genre. You can basically ignore half of the reviews when looking at games like Pokémon Mystery Dungeon and Shiren the Wanderer, because with Roguelikes, you're going to get a large number of reviews by people who can't handle the difficulty of a Roguelike and therefore give it a low score without actually rating the game. (Don't believe me? Every single low-scoring review for Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team on Metacritic complains only about the Roguelike aspects, and maybe the graphics and dialogue - and Roguelikes aren't known for excelling in either of those.) Similarly, look at 2D Metroidvania games - regardless of the reviewer's opinion, these games get scored highly almost every time. Many reviewers disliked Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia's comparatively-ridiculous difficulty and stated that they wouldn't recommend it to anyone except die-hard fans because of it - but that didn't stop them from rating it as highly as they did.

While shmups usually fall into the favorable or average ranges, there are some common complaints from reviewers about those as well, all of which seem to miss the point. Look at the (generally favorable) reviews for the GameCube version of Ikaruga. Every one of them in Metacritic's yellow range complains about the difficulty and/or the length ("only" five levels that are so hard they'll throw even shmup veterans for a loop). The PS2 compilation Gradius III & IV? Complaints abound that the difficulty is far too high (they're basically arcade-perfect ports, and the arcade version of Gradius III is considered one of the hardest games ever made in a genre known for its difficulty) and that "it doesn't push the limits of the PS2," as if that has anything to do with whether or not a game is good. (You'll notice this complaint is mysteriously absent with games like Odin Sphere and Disgaea, which isn't pushing the limits of the PS3 either.)

Also, God Hand. My point is, professional critics are definitely not something you and I should be listening to when trying to decide whether or not a game that could go either way is good. (Do listen to them when looking at, say, The Orange Box, or something else that's obviously good.) Listen to someone you know who's reputable, who had time to play through the whole game (including sidequests, if need be) and who can give you an honest review of it, not someone who had review code for it and five other games they had to play within a week, or an aggregate of many of those reviewers.

(By the way, looking at Metacritic's top DS games, Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story is now lower than Chrono Trigger and tied with Mario Kart DS and Flipnote Studio at 91. If more reviews come in, unless they're 100s by Metacritic's system, it'll likely be knocked down even further - I wouldn't be surprised to see it end up tied with the four absolutely excellent games that currently hold scores of 89.)

Trainman

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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2009, 02:53:07 PM »
Another reason why to not base things on review scores.......

Just...... go buy the game if you haven't already. It's a good game.... I'm not saying that because of review scores... but because I've played it and it's a very good game just like any Mario game should be. I know that your opinion might differ from mine, but regardless, you'd find the game to be very good for your own reasons.

I think that's what Forest Guy was mentioning. I believe he's saying it's a big deal because no one's really found anything to ***** about in the game unless it was super trivial kinda like "Oh dang, that could've been cool if it were in the game... but it's still just fine regardless."

The only complaint I've heard so far is: "BAWW teh mushrom kindgom is too small1 in this game" which isn't true. I guess checking out the aerial view map (when it shows you where you are in relation to the whole kingdom) does give the illusion of it looking small, but jeez, the game is by no means small.
Formerly quite reasonable.

WarpRattler

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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2009, 03:21:54 PM »
Hey, uh, I haven't been talking about whether or not M&L3 is a good game. I was talking about why Meowrik is wrong and why review scores ultimately matter less than the opinions of regular gamers. I don't have $35 to go spend on the third game in a series when I haven't gotten around to finishing the first.

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