Fungi Forums
Video Games => Video Game Chat => Topic started by: HolyAarom on September 21, 2007, 10:00:53 PM
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As you all may know, Brawl is one of the most anticipated games coming out. I recently joined a gaming club in my school, and everyone there gets all defensive whenever I want to play an item tournament in Melee.
I am a user of items, and I find this kind of interesting to look up. I have found some opinions from my friends, and from NSider.
Pros
- Makes the game more fun. Come on, I know that you can't resist luring someone to a MSB.
- Requires more skill, as if you are good with AND without items, then you're probably a good player if you can win with different rules.
- Fun > Fair
Cons
- It takes no skill with items on.
Feel free to suggest additions to the list, as I do not know that much as of now.
I think the main problem is how people get serious over a game like Smash. Yes, it's a great competitive game, and to really test your skills, you need to be able to own someone with the same conditions for both players. I think I see something wrong with this. Everyone always plays on Final Destination with no items, and they call that real skill. If you're the master of Final Destination, but you suck at other stages, are you really a good player? Probably not in my eyes.
"But wut about teh Gimmikz in da other levels?"
I think that if you have real skill, you will be able to adapt to every stage, anticipating all the stuff that happens in the stage. The same applies to items. The Hammer is easy to dodge even in a small area. It just requires more dodging skills. Besides, if the head of the hammer comes off, then sucks for the person who got the hammer.
Like I said before, it's fine to have no item matches that test skill, but I think a skilled gamer would be skilled in both item and non-item matches.
Boy, if the Smash Community plays Brawl just like Melee, then Brawl would just be considered an Online Melee with more Characters and Stages.
I can see it now, Final Smashes and Assist Trophies will be banned, and everyone will be using the Final Stage of Classic Mode.
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I think that if you have real skill, you will be able to adapt to every stage, anticipating all the stuff that happens in the stage.
This is the truth, pure and simple.
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I don't have much a problem with stages (Don't fall in the acid. This one rotates. Watch out for that car). Items, however, will fall on/around you to impede you and nothing can fix that, except for turning them off. Honestly, exploding barrels and crates fall on me ALL the TIME, right when I'm about to unleash an attack strong enough to blow it up and kill myself. In a skill contest, that possibility should be eliminated... it's not possible to get good at predicting when an exploding thing is going to fall on you. If it's just for fun, why not leave items on? Besides, anyone can take up the "strategy" to avoid everyone until you get a Poké Ball with Ho-Oh in it.
In conclusion, for a srs biz tournament, fair > fun. Any other time, sure--the exploding box might fall on YOU today. And exploding things are plenty fun.
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- Requires more skill, as if you are good with AND without items, then you're probably a good player if you can win with different rules.
- It takes no skill with items on.
Wait, so it does or doesn't require skill? :/
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Like I said before, it's fine to have no item matches that test skill, but I think a skilled gamer would be skilled in both item and non-item matches.
More truth.
I love items in Melee, I admit it. I'm generally an item hog. And I loves to chuck 'em. Bats, hammer heads, STAR RODS, you name it.
I can understand why a lot of "hardcore" Smash fanatics choose to have items off. Items do tend to sometimes give unfair disadvantages/advantages to players. In BirdPerson's case, it's the Bob-omb always falling and exploding right in front of him. In my case, it's when usually a chucked item towards me (since people hate how I chuck items :3). I mean, when a Heart Container falls right in front of your opponent, it does seem like, "WHA?!" But I think items are perfectly legit (even though they're meant to be in the game, so.)
First of all, items do tend add more variety. In fact, in most cases it takes more skill to use items to your advantage than standard Melees. I mean, avoiding that Bob-omb at the last second takes some skill, doesn't it? Avoiding a reckless hammer user, or someone with a Pokéball that just unleashed a Zapdos. In my opinion, if you can still triumph in a match with all items on, you are the true Smash Master.
Am I against no-item Final Destination matches? No. But I do frown upon those that think to be the better Smash player they have to master no items. It's completely the opposite.
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Wait, so it does or doesn't require skill? :/
You need skill to be good at both items and no items. Everyone says you're a noob if you rely only on items. You need skill to rely on both your fighting and item skills.
In a skill contest, that possibility should be eliminated... it's not possible to get good at predicting when an exploding thing is going to fall on you. If it's just for fun, why not leave items on? Besides, anyone can take up the "strategy" to avoid everyone until you get a Poké Ball with Ho-Oh in it.
If you were able to adapt into a player who plays without items, you can easily adapt into a player who uses items, and is able to dodge attacks. Seriously, the only Pokemon that I know that I might get hit by is Unown.
About the exploding stuff, are you saying that every single time a crate/barrel comes down, it's right next to your line of fire? Like it's not behind you, above you, and whatever? If an exploding thing is going to fall on you, can't you just simply dodge? There's even that trick where you can catch items thrown at you.
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It'll always land right on top of me when I'm charging a smash attack or something. When it's too late to move away. I'm just not a very lucky person in general, so it feels like items are out to get me.
I'll play item-happy when items are on, though. Because if I don't take them, someone else will. I still say it's still a cheap way to win, even if I'm the one winning cheaply.
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The Smash Bros. community is bad and if you're part of it you should feel bad.
The game itself shouldn't even be about skill or strength or whatever. It's a complete parody of other fighting games. If I wanted a fighting game about skill I'd play Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.
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What are you talking about? Of course Smash Bros. is about skill. It may not be the skill needed for SF or MK, memorizing strings of commands, but you still need knowledge of the person you're using. They all fight so differently, and their attacks vary so much, if you have no skill you aren't going to win, even with items. See, the items and stages are there to accent one players skill. If they are not only able to use a character well, knowing which maneuver will work best quickly enough to do it, but also capable of taking advantage of the field and/or items, you are more skilled than someone who only plays without the randomness. Embrace the chaos! Melee! Brawl! Both meaning a crazy fight*, not predictability.
*not the actual definition.
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I'm not sure, but the same thing happens to me, and I agree with you HolyAarom.
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I've run into a few people on other forums that shun items. I think it's kind of dumb. Smash Bros. is fun with or without items!
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Except in the case of srs biz tournaments.
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I always play with items on anyway. As StarWolf would say; Playing with no items is fun, but having items on is better!
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Smash Bros. is best as a test of skill and cunning without items, but best as Smash with items.
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Your talking about playing against human players right? Well I really don't have any (challenging) competition where I live, so I can't post a real opinion about that, but I can absolutely PWN CPU's with items, but I can't play as well without them (which is how I usually play). Though I can usually beat a lvl 9 CPU (without items) without too much trouble.
I can't wait to see how good I am compared to the rest of the world.
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I don't have much competition either, but I once won against two human Sheiks in a 2-on-1 team battle as Ganondorf.
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That's like two Hondas versus a Harley, no contest.
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I read that four times and can't figure out if you're saying her matchup was very easy or very hard but I think fighting two Sheiks as Ganondorf would be a nightmare.
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Seriously... super slow characters don't usually do that great against super fast characters unless you have absolutely perfect timing.
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My point is sheik/Zelda is a flimsy speed/power character.
It's like combining a camera and a cellphone, all you get is a crappy camera and a crappy phone.
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Dude, you must never have been to Japan. So be quiet about phones and cameras.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shiek a "top-tier" character?!
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Dude, you must never have been to Japan. So be quiet about phones and cameras.
So... what If I haven't been to jah pan... so what?
So no.
Phones and cameras
Phones and cameras
phones and cameras
phones and cameras
phones and cameras
phones and cameras
*ah*
PHONES AND CAMERAS!
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shiek a "top-tier" character?!
So what!! It's entirely possible to beat a higher tier character with a lower tier one.
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which begs the question: what determines a tier? even if it even exists.
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legorobotcomics.com%2Fcomics%2F45.jpg&hash=087951150730a79fd8b02c53b205cba0)
this discussion reminds me of this comic
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It's based on a 4chan meme.
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which begs the question: what determines a tier? even if it even exists.
People put CPUs one on one against each other to see which will win. That's all I know. They do not use free for all matches, and it's been tested many times.
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So what!! It's entirely possible to beat a higher tier character with a lower tier one.
Duh, I'm just saying what's with the smack-talk on Shiek when the best players count him among the best characters.
Yes, tiers are "made up" by players after extensive tournament play and debate.
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People act like they just make it up out of their heads though. The tier list is based on every possible factor that can go into winning and losing with every character. With a game as already balanced as SSB, it wasn't easy to construct it.