Fungi Forums
Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: Zarkanthesmasher on July 09, 2008, 04:56:59 PM
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For a while, I've honestly been wondering why Super Mario RPG has gotten so much praise. I know it has a special place in many people's hearts - especially because of the storyline and memorable characters- but I really don't see the reason for its immense popularity. I've played it - and it's really quite boring, IMO. Basically all you do is fight a ton of enemies that are all the same, and then fight a boss. Rinse, repeat - all the way to the end of the game (note - I haven't actually played the whole game - it got too boring too quickly).
So, I'm wondering if anyone else shares my opinion. Does anyone else out there think that SMRPG is not all its cracked up to be?
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I think it's an amazing game overall, just like all the other Mario RPGs, but on some terms, overrated. For example, the special moves have very little variety, usually requiring you to simply tap A, circle the D-Pad, or hold A to charge up something. Other than that, I love it.
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But keep in mind that Super Mario RPG was essentially the first RPG to require you to do anything for special moves.
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Basically all you do is fight a ton of enemies that are all the same, and then fight a boss.
Couldn't that describe pretty much any RPG?
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Mario RPG is the precursor to Kingdom Hearts. That is, it threw characters who were generally not in an RPG (the Mario crew) into a world with a very deep story. Every character had wonderful back-story, every monster had unique animations, every town was full of life.. I'm not going to go so far and say it was perfect, but it came pretty close.
It has aged very well, and I am somewhat suprised that it is not on the VC yet. Like Super Mario Kart, but that's a rant for another topic..
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Hm, I wouldn't say it's overrated. It had a great story, well developed characters and an awesome soundtrack. I guess that's pretty much what I ask from an RPG. It's too bad they never realesed it here in Europe though.
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It's a very fun game I never beat completely.
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Never played all the way through
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[insert variety of insults here]
SMRPG is better than you lot.
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I've never played the game myself, but I recall enjoying the various characters' humor ("You couldn't chase down a pumpkin!"). SMRPG also brought about "Super Pipe House", one of my favorite Mario songs.
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Couldn't that describe pretty much any RPG?
Well, maybe somewhat. However, the Paper Mario series is totally different - there's a ton of fun puzzles in the games, and the enemy fights are a lot more fun, IMO. The main problem I have with SMRPG is that you always end up fighting one or two kinds of enemies in an area, and you fight them a ton of times. When I played the part with the shyguys invading Toad Town and Peach's castle, I fought at least 20 sets of two or three shyguys. All exactly the same - which got very boring.
Paper Mario, on the other hand, has more of variety in the enemy fights - and there aren't as much of them, which makes it less monotonous.
Insert Quote
But keep in mind that Super Mario RPG was essentially the first RPG to require you to do anything for special moves.
True. Actually, I don't really mean that SMRPG is a bad game. For its time, it was revolutionary. I just personally think that it hasn't aged as well as other mario games - with exception to the great storyline.
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So is this game out for the Virtual console or what. Cause I wanna buy it.
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I actually have the original (it's pretty tough to find these days) but I don't really play it that often. I love PM:TTYD but I doubt the two are very similar.
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No, they're not.
You guys should never play any RPGs if you think SMRPG is monotonous. It actually has a very well crafted game engine with great control (unlike Paper Mario's sludgefest) and fighting a squad of enemies hardly takes any time anyway. If you don't fight enemies, how are you going to level up? And why complain about a Much More Fun Than Paper Mario battle system? And how does Paper Mario have a greater variety of enemies per location? (It doesn't. Fighting the same type of enemies in a given area is what happens with all RPGs.)
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No, they're not.
You guys should never play any RPGs if you think SMRPG is monotonous. It actually has a very well crafted game engine with great control (unlike Paper Mario's sludgefest) and fighting a squad of enemies hardly takes any time anyway. If you don't fight enemies, how are you going to level up? And why complain about a Much More Fun Than Paper Mario battle system? And how does Paper Mario have a greater variety of enemies per location? (It doesn't. Fighting the same type of enemies in a given area is what happens with all RPGs.)
Sludgefest? Much more fun than Paper Mario? Come on - Paper Mario isn't boring at all! And IMO, the battle system in Paper Mario is simply amazing - the best I've ever played in an RPG. This is partly because it relies totally on strategy and barely at all on luck (and the latter makes battles rely to much on chance and less on sound battle plans), and also because executing attacks and special moves is a lot more satisfying.
Keep in mind, this is my opinion, but I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. ;)
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Neither of them are as good as Mario & Luigi, but I will say that SMRPG needs a sequel with more Square-Enix parody aspects.
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In my opinion, everything about SMRPG is better than Paper Mario. Paper Mario felt watered down in comparison. TTYD was a bit better, but I still like Super Mario RPG more.
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I dunno. I think it may be a tad overrated, but not too much. But in all honesty, I enjoyed the Paper Mario series more.
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So did I Captain Jim. Paper Mario:TTYD kept me interested with its story and even though the battle system was really simple, it was still fun to use.
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Hm, I wouldn't say it's overrated. It had a great story, well developed characters and an awesome soundtrack. I guess that's pretty much what I ask from an RPG. It's too bad they never realesed it here in Europe though.
What the cat said, great story, well developed characters, awesome soundtrack, what more could you ask for. This makes the RPG at least good. After that, it seems to come down to which games had the characters and music and humor I liked more. Story I don't seem to focus on as much unless it really blows me out of the water (which is pretty much the only reason Chrono Trigger's high on my list. Other than that, it just doesn't seem as accessible as some of the other RPGs I've played).
You may complain of monotonous battles. Well, I'm a turn-based RPG diehard, it's the style I prefer and don't get tired of, so the battle system's no problem. I eventually got used to the battle system in Chrono Trigger (after I realized that with the "Wait" mode, the time to attack again is a cool way of indicating move order), but I still prefer to have time to think out my moves. Granted that most of the time it's just slamming the attack button, but I'm very sensitive to being attacked twice by an enemy before I can move. Plus, the 30-level cap might help to lessen the level-grinding issue. I don't recall spending much time upgrading my characters before a battle. But in EarthBound, there was level-grinding a plenty.
And it's pretty fun to finally play as Bowser.
By the way, I voted for not overrated. It was just great all around. I didn't think it was a religious experience when playing it, but it was unique and remains one of my favorite SNES games (among a ton of others).
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If you don't fight enemies, how are you going to level up?
They should come up with an alternative to that. Like, how about a character who gains experience just for exploring?
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It's called a dungeon crawler.
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I don't care what it's called! I want to see it in action!
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Nah, Mß, I think an adventure game fits that description better--Mario gets no stronger as you run and jump around levels, but you get better at the game. In theory.
In a perfect RPG, level grinding would only come as punishment for those fools who do not follow the rule of RPGs: Kill every enemy you see. Ever. Unless it's inaccessible, like those times you see New Age Retro Hippies and Annoying Old Party Men generate on those clifftops between towns. Most RPGs require more than that, and some are just too easy or, like the Thousand-Year Door, become really easy when you master the battle system.
Going back to the "kill every enemy you see." Why do people avoid enemies in RPGs? Fighting is more than half the game. Just waking from town to town buying weapons and armor is cool too, but if you're going to avoid fighting, why would you do that in the first place? Perhaps you're just interested in the story... well, part of the challenge you must overcome to find out what happens next is beating up some Manly Fish. In Ace Attorney it's figuring the logic of situations; try that if that's more your style.
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He asked for a game where the character gains experience when exploring, not the player getting better. In dungeon crawlers, your character literally gains experience points when exploring.
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Games with Mario running and jumping around levels are not adventure games. They are called platformers.
I want MEGAߥTE to name some of these dungeon crawlers.
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It's a good game, but perhaps a tad overrated. However, I think that Geno really is overrated. I find the fans that whine about him not being in SSBB to be rather annoying.
Eh, I'm voting "Somewhat."
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It's a good game, but perhaps a tad overrated. However, I think that Geno really is overrated. I find the fans that whine about him not being in SSBB to be rather annoying.
Eh, I'm voting "Somewhat."
Oh yeah, that gets really annoying. I remember reading old mailbags that kept clamoring for the return of Geno - as if he was the greatest Mario character ever. Come on!
In a perfect RPG, level grinding would only come as punishment for those fools who do not follow the rule of RPGs: Kill every enemy you see. Ever. Unless it's inaccessible, like those times you see New Age Retro Hippies and Annoying Old Party Men generate on those clifftops between towns. Most RPGs require more than that, and some are just too easy or, like the Thousand-Year Door, become really easy when you master the battle system.
Well, that's what I do as well. Problem is, when you've killed 20 or 30 of the exact same enemy, you're less inclined to kill even more of that enemy. :\
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You Really Don't Get The Point.™
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You Really Don't Get The Point.™
Or maybe it's just that you and I have totally different tastes in video games. Which, BTW, isn't bad.
The whole reason I really started this topic was because I was wondering how revered SMRPG is today. I remember reading old mailbags here that kept having people writing in on how SMRPG was the best game ever, and it looks like it's still a lot like that today. I respect people if they like the game so much, but I think it's a bit rude to claim that I don't get the point just because I don't like the game.
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I'm glad someone finally spoke out about this. SMRPG is somewhat overrated (that's the option I chose). It's a great game and very fun, but most of the later Mario RPGs beat it out in my eyes. I see why people like it-it's got a great story, gameplay, music, and all that stuff-I just think the later RPGs are better. SMRPG is my second-to-least-favorite Mario RPG (the least being M&L Partners in Time, not that it was a bad game), and I don't see a reason why it should be any higher on my (key word "my") list. The Paper Mario games and Superstar Saga also had great stories (except for Paper Mario 1) and fun gameplay that attracted me better than RPG. I did play PM and SS before RPG, which may have influenced my chocies somewhat.
The only true thing I dislike about SMRPG isn't the game itself, but the fact that some of its fans are just too loud. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but the whole petition thing about Nintendo remaking SMRPG for the GBA/DS/whatever, the sequel petition...I don't think we really need that stuff. I would like a Virtual Console release, though, just so people who haven't experienced it before can play it.
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The only true thing I dislike about SMRPG isn't the game itself, but the fact that some of its fans are just too loud. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but the whole petition thing about Nintendo remaking SMRPG for the GBA/DS/whatever, the sequel petition...I don't think we really need that stuff. I would like a Virtual Console release, though, just so people who haven't experienced it before can play it.
I totally agree. Even though I said that I think SMRPG is overrated, it doesn't mean that I deny that it has any merrit at all. It should most certainly get a Virtual Console release - just Smash Brothers, Earthbound, and all the other classic games that haven't been released yet.
But a sequel? If they made one, I wouldn't complain, but there are other things that are higher priority for me right now - like a sequel to New Super Mario Brothers. :)
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I actually would enjoy a sequel-I would just rather have another Paper Mario or M&L game. I think I phrased that in my previous post wrong. >_>
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Yes, we need a Paper Mario game on a handheld - which is why I'm hoping that the rumored Paper Mario DS is for more than just Korea.
On another note, there's actually other things that I take issue with in SMRPG besides the ones I've mentioned. For one thing, I really dislike that there are so many brand new characters in the game that don't even resemble older species. Characters like Croco, Bowyer, Smithy, Mack, and others don't really feel quite at home - and I hate how so many of the enemies are unique to this game. What's with K-9, Frogog, Shadow, Spookum, Starcruster, Snapdragon, Amanita, and so on? Note that this problem is not exclusive to SMRPG - I also dislike that Super Paper Mario had so many weird character additions.
Another problem is that I honestly don't see what's so special about some of the unique main characters. People say that Geno is so cool, but to me he just sounds like an average powerful hero character in all of his dialogue. Mack, Punchinello, and other bosses also are really generic, although some like Bowyer and Booster are a lot better.
Personally, I like the unique characters from Paper Mario a lot better. Goomba King, the Ninja Koopas, Tubba Blubba, General Shy Guy, Tutankoopa, and most of the unique bosses were really cool, and each had a funny personality. :)
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I also dislike that Super Paper Mario had so many weird character additions.
Personally, I like the unique characters from Paper Mario a lot better. Goomba King, the Ninja Koopas, Tubba Blubba, General Shy Guy, Tutankoopa, and most of the unique bosses were really cool, and each had a funny personality. :)
I'm not trying to defend it, but Super Paper Mario took place in a different dimesion than the 'regular' one.
Also, Tubba Blubba wasn't really unique. Have people forgotten about the little guys called Spikes that threw spiked balls at you in SMB3? The Clubbas of the PM games resemble Spikes alot.
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For one thing, I really dislike that there are so many brand new characters in the game that don't even resemble older species. Characters like Croco, Bowyer, Smithy, Mack, and others don't really feel quite at home - and I hate how so many of the enemies are unique to this game.
I liked that, actually. SMRPG presumably takes place in a different area of the Mushroom Kingdom than in previous games, so new species and and enemies were invented. I also like it just for the sake that they're original-a small problem I have with Chapter 1 in the first two Paper Mario games is that most of the enemies are the generic Goombas, Koopas, etc. (TTYD did somewhat better, though, with the Bristles and such).
Enemies like Mack and Bowyer are obviously going to be different. They're minions of this strange robot guy who was unheard of before the game, so they are a different style than most other Mario enemies. Actually, thinking about that just made me appreciate SMRPG more.
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liked that, actually. SMRPG presumably takes place in a different area of the Mushroom Kingdom than in previous games, so new species and and enemies were invented. I also like it just for the sake that they're original-a small problem I have with Chapter 1 in the first two Paper Mario games is that most of the enemies are the generic Goombas, Koopas, etc. (TTYD did somewhat better, though, with the Bristles and such).
I don't see what's the problem with having goombas and koopas as begining enemies - since they're the lowest of bowser's underlings, they work great as the begining enemies you face.
My problem with SMRPG isn't that it was being original. Paper Mario TTYD managed to be original while staying familiar as well. There were the mugger Piantas, the pirate bomb-ombs, and others like Grubba. They all feel at home in the mushroom world, and I really wish that SMRPG had more familiar species along with the new ones - it really doesn't have that many at all compared to all the other Mario RPG's (excluding Super Paper Mario).
I'm not trying to defend it, but Super Paper Mario took place in a different dimesion than the 'regular' one.
Also, Tubba Blubba wasn't really unique. Have people forgotten about the little guys called Spikes that through spiked balls at you in SMB3? The Clubbas of the PM games resemble Spikes alot
I know - it's just that I didn't like that. And I agree that the actual design of Tubba Blubba isn't unique, but I really like his personality. A big monster that eats ghosts and hides his heart in a windmill is pretty original to me. :)
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People say that Geno is so cool, but to me he just sounds like an average powerful hero character in all of his dialogue.
I fully agree. Geno is okay, but oh so horribly generic. Generic Geno.
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No, they're not.
You guys should never play any RPGs if you think SMRPG is monotonous. It actually has a very well crafted game engine with great control (unlike Paper Mario's sludgefest) and fighting a squad of enemies hardly takes any time anyway. If you don't fight enemies, how are you going to level up? And why complain about a Much More Fun Than Paper Mario battle system? And how does Paper Mario have a greater variety of enemies per location? (It doesn't. Fighting the same type of enemies in a given area is what happens with all RPGs.)
If you're describing it like that saying that you're supposed to kill the same thing over and over and over basically until you get to the next town and advance past it and kill more of the same harder enemies, then I guess RPGs are no fun at all.
I've played a couple different RPGs, and I don't understand how PM could be called a "sludgefest." The only difference I see between PM and other RPGs, really, is the fact that PM was a bit more ergonomic in terms of your layout of options and how simple they were, and the attack system is enjoyable. After seeing and trying to play some friends' RPGs, I tried Tales of Symphonia, that two disc Gamecube on and got kinda far, then realized wow this is boring.... so I went to play SMRPG on ZSNES instead.
They should fix Paper Mario in a sequel if they happen upon it. Super Paper Mario has been really annoying and it is literally the first Mario game in my life that I *haven't* wanted to finish. No more platformer-RPG crossovers. God, it's starting to remind me of those cheap, poorly-built, economy crapsters called "CROSSOVER SUVS FOR THE HARDCORE GREENIES AND SOCCER MOMS."
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Don't play any other games either, because you might fight groups of the same type of enemies in those games, too!
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I voted for very over rated. I think its a good game and I like it, but no that much. Geno is the most overrated thing about it, as some of you have already said.
As someone said before, I think a Mario RPG parodying Square would be cool. I have though of that a little, but not that much. Maybe something bad happens to Luigi, and Mario becomes deeply depressed, and for some other reason he has to travel. And for even another reason, Luigi is the final boss... yes, again. Oops I think I just spoiled a game.
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Well, that's what I do as well. Problem is, when you've killed 20 or 30 of the exact same enemy, you're less inclined to kill even more of that enemy. :\
Isn't that...Genocide? (Pun intended)
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ProTip: Adding the phrase "Pun intended" after a pun makes it less funny.
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I'd say it makes it a whole lot more funny than somebody saying "lol GENOcide." Or, the same person following it up with "GET IT? Genocide!" In short, a minor misdemeanor meriting a mere, measly moan.
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I didn't get it or think of it until he said pun intended. If you all caught on that quickly, then SMRPG must be very overrated!
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Nice use of alliteration, Suffix.
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Nice use of alliteration, Suffix.
I was going to say something similarly to said segment of text, but decided I would end up using alliteration in my post which would just be a pain to read after the previous reiteration of letters.
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SMRPG is a good game, but it's way overrated. The fans keep saying that its so superior to the Paper Mario series without any good reasons. "it has Geno" or "it was developed by Square" are not very good reasons.
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I would call Super Mario RPG better than Paper Mario because Paper Mario's plot is so uneventful. Bowser kidnaps Peach in most of the RPGs (actually not most, but he always tries and almost as often as he does, he kind of does), but he only really has her in his clutches until the end of Paper Mario. No plot twists, no shockers, nothing. Basic.
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Super Mario RPG is also more fun to play than Paper Mario.
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And I already said this, but I liked Super Mario RPG more because HP values were higher, so I got a greater sense of damage and didn't feel so gypped if I was robbed of making 1HP more damage on an enemy. It's not cool to feel intimidated by a boss with 50HP. That's really the only major reason I didn't like Paper Mario, a deal-breaker for me.
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Paper Mario's plot is so uneventful. No plot twists, no shockers, nothing. Basic.
Paper Mario does have some plot twists. One of them is when you're supposed to fight the Koopa Bros. in Bowser's Castle, but Jr. Koopa hits them out of the way and fights you himself.
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Paper Mario's plot is so uneventful. No plot twists, no shockers, nothing. Basic.
It's true that the actual plot isn't that exciting, but the characters are a lot more interesting and funny, in my opinion. I'd take characters like Tubba Blubba, Kolorardo, General Guy, Kammy Koopa, Bow, and others over a lot of the SMRPG lot - which includes a lot of boring characters like Mack, Punchinelo, and the highly overrated Geno.
Another gripe - I don't like that defense action commands are basically pointless in SMRPG. You can get through basically the whole game without even using them at all - which is inevitable, considering that they're very hard to pull off. Paper Mario has a much greater emphasis on defense action commands, because minimizing damage with them can really make a difference in the game.
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I like the battle system better in Paper Mario because it was way more consistent. You didn't randomly miss and the numbers weren't unreasonably big, so you could calculate how much damage you did to your enemy and how much they would do to you. I also like how there is more strategy to Paper Mario's system like flipping over koopas or causing an earthquake to damage multiple enemies.
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Attacks that target multiple enemies are included in both games. Whether it's an earthquake or not is irrelevant.
If you didn't bother to learn the timing of defense timed hits, that isn't the game's fault.
If you don't like the writing in SMRPG as much as PM, that's a matter of taste and not something that makes one game better than the other.
I think I've said this before, but I'm of the opinion that it's much more pleasing to do triple-digit damage than to single-digit.
Missing "randomly" in battle is based on accuracy/evade stats. It makes sense to build in a bit of this since the game isn't occurring in realtime.
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If you're talking about the Defense action being useless in Super Mario RPG, then yeah, pretty much. I rarely used it. It does cut damage on you in half, and combined with the timed defense, can cut damage on you to a quarter I think. That's pretty useful in matches where you'd otherwise be killed in one or two turns. But more often than not, my allies could take a beating and still keep on ticking, so it was just better to attack.
If you talking about timed defense... well, Toad taught you how to do that at the start of the game. I forget if he said anything about the timings being slightly different. Used to bug me at first because an enemy quickly races up to you and waits a second before attacking, throwing off your accuracy. But that's part of the fun y'know. Timed defense is the only way (that I remember) to avoid instant-kill attacks if you don't have the Safety Ring (although it sets your HP to 1). ...Man, that Safety Ring was awesome. And it's immensely satisfying to do a timed defense against that one boss in Monstro Town who has invisible attacks.
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Super Mario RPG is also more fun to play than Paper Mario.
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hiddenscepter.com%2Fmariorpgs.png&hash=747a02233a3c598050c1991f6e1182ca)
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hiddenscepter.com%2Fmariorpgs.png&hash=747a02233a3c598050c1991f6e1182ca)
Are you going to assemble it?
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Is there some epidemic that prevents people from responding to the post directly above theirs without quoting it? It's really easy to not quote the person before you. And if someone else posts before you finish typing your own post, the computer will warn you that someone else posted something.
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Sometimes I do it without realizing it... I can remember a few "recent" instances. It's just a bad habit... even though there was a time when I could respond to posts right above mine without even thinking about not quoting them. And I'm not talking about pre-Simple Machines forums.
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Is the joke too hard to understand? My brother didn't get it at first. >_>
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Quoting shows you're replying to something instead of posting something standalone. Standard practice for forums I believe. If it's obvious you're replying to someone, though, then it's not necessary.
Actually, I misunderstood the pic at first by thinking it was assembled. I know the > arrows looked odd being directly below the pictures, that should have tipped me off. I interpreted it as meaning Super Mario RPG > Paper Mario > some Mario and Luigi game > one of the other Paper Mario games > the other Mario and Luigi game > the other Paper Mario game.
I interpret the pic now as "yeah, keep your opinions to yourself, I'm able to figure out which games are better than the others on my own."
It looks like a big production for a simple reply, but we've had that sort of thing before without complaints (replying with a Robotnik picture, replying with a goofy animated image, throwing in Weegee).
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg301.imageshack.us%2Fimg301%2F2706%2Fweegeeisretardedsy3.jpg&hash=7dc4dcb5377eb536d4d2032712aa6d76)
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I blame Kojinka.
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Attacks that target multiple enemies are included in both games. Whether it's an earthquake or not is irrelevant.
If you didn't bother to learn the timing of defense timed hits, that isn't the game's fault.
If you don't like the writing in SMRPG as much as PM, that's a matter of taste and not something that makes one game better than the other.
I think I've said this before, but I'm of the opinion that it's much more pleasing to do triple-digit damage than to single-digit.
Missing "randomly" in battle is based on accuracy/evade stats. It makes sense to build in a bit of this since the game isn't occurring in realtime.
Sheesh Chupperson, you don't have to get so defensive. I'm only criticizing a game that you just happen to love - it's not like I'm assaulting a close relative of yours or something. >_>
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Quoting shows you're replying to something instead of posting something standalone. Standard practice for forums I believe. If it's obvious you're replying to someone, though, then it's not necessary.
The only really annoying ones are the quote within a quote within a quote within a quote within a quote posts.
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Yes, that's what I made the pic for. "I can decide for myself which games are better than others, so please stop trying to make one game look better as a fact" is the message I was going for. Maybe I should put the game icons on the left and the ">" pieces on the right to make it more easily understood.
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Is there some epidemic that prevents people from responding to the post directly above theirs without quoting it? It's really easy to not quote the person before you. And if someone else posts before you finish typing your own post, the computer will warn you that someone else posted something.
Actually, it's somewhat of a habit for me.
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Well Zarkan, that's not called "being defensive". I was simply arguing my case, and pointing out the flaws in your argument.
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Zarkanthesmasher, I have to disagree with you 100%. I feel that Super Mario RPG is not overrated, but Paper Mario is.
Don’t get me wrong. I remember anxiously waiting for it the moment it was announced. I couldn’t wait to experience the successor to my favorite game. But after it came and I completely finished the game in its entirety, I couldn’t help but feel disappointed. Even in that era of my youth when I would unanimously praise every new Mario game just because it was a Mario game, I had to admit that Paper Mario left a bad taste in my mouth. Why? I just feel that Paper Mario is the Yoshi’s Story of the Mario RPGs.
To me, Yoshi’s Story and Paper Mario feel like sequels that take everything that made the original a masterpiece and dumb it down. This is one of the biggest reasons why I and many others put Super Mario RPG on a higher league over Paper Mario. Whereas Super Mario RPG kept me challenged as I constantly got Game Overs trying to overcome some of the most epic battles in the Mario series, I simply breezed through Paper Mario effortlessly. Remember the battles between Domino and Cloaker, Culex, and Jinx? Paper Mario simply does not compare, especially when the game designers blatantly give you the winning strategy (like when Tubba Blubba’s heart is about to charge up and Bow tells you to use her power to evade). Heck, remember Grate Guy’s Casino? That’s probably one of the biggest secrets in a Mario game! I couldn’t find it until months after I completed the game. What’s Paper Mario’s equivalent? The Playroom you encounter within the first two hours of gameplay (and a Toad even tells you something along the lines of “Why don’t you use your HAMMER to smack that TREE over there?!”).
Yeah, so basically I don’t understand why so many critics and fans praise Paper Mario. I just find the gameplay brainless, like it was made for toddlers. Every time I hear someone say that Paper Mario is better, I cringe the same way I do when I hear little kids say “Yoshi’s Story is SO MUCH BETTER than Yoshi’s Island!” Now Zarkanthesmasher, I don’t intend or expect to change your opinion, but this little digression might help you understand why some people consider Super Mario RPG a superior game.
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SMRPG does have more secrets than Paper Mario, but I found SMRPG to be just as easy if not easier than Paper Mario. Paper Mario's bosses felt more epic and had way more personality than SMRPG's bosses. Yoshi's story was a decent game, the only thing that I though was bad about it was the main quest was too short and easy. Yoshi's Story was more of a high score game than Yoshi's Island.
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Well Zarkan, that's not called "being defensive". I was simply arguing my case, and pointing out the flaws in your argument
I wouldn't call them flaws, just different opinions. The point I was making was that I've noticed how defensive you get when people argue that SMRPG isn't the best mario RPG. This isn't a new thing either - I've seen that in old mailbags (which I do read from time to time), you and David Dayton are on opposite sides of the issue, while Sapphira takes the middle ground. :P
Remember the battles between Domino and Cloaker, Culex, and Jinx?
Jinx and especially Culex's supposed power are also overated. I beat both of them the first time I fought them, the latter using the Star Egg. In fact, there's really no way to lose once you put the Lazy Shell armor on Bowser, as basically every attack except Water Blast gives him one point of damage. Basically, even if your other teammates die, Bowser is invincible.
Heck, remember Grate Guy’s Casino? That’s probably one of the biggest secrets in a Mario game! I couldn’t find it until months after I completed the game.
Ah yes, Grate Guy's Casino. How I hate that place. Besides the fact that it's almost impossible to find without a walkthrough or guide, it also has to be one of the monotonous places ever. The only reason I went there is so I could get the Star Egg, and playing 250 rounds of "Look the other way" to get a special item has to be the stupidest secret ever in a mario game. Not stupid because of the reward, but stupid because it's simply an awful and repetitive minigame. :X
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If you want the item, you'll play the game. RPGs generally have an element of repetition followed by a reward. Except Paper Mario, that is.
Also I have to say I found Paper Mario not one bit epic. The bosses are mostly small and use a total of two attacks on you.
I have to say though, the best part of Paper Mario is the ice castle, whatever it's called. That area is actually somewhat large and interesting.
Also, Yoshi's Story isn't bad, either.
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The Weegee meme is retarded.
I completely agree with that statement.
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Jinx and especially Culex's supposed power are also overated.
Well it's easy to say that if you're all leveled up, but try fighting Culex at level 16 like I did. Without the trueform pin. In Japanese.
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Well it's easy to say that if you're all leveled up, but try fighting Culex at level 16 like I did. Without the trueform pin. In Japanese.
True, but most people don't even do that on any game unless they want to challenge themselves. That said, making a game more challenging is always a good idea if the game is really easy when played normally. :)
If you want the item, you'll play the game. RPGs generally have an element of repetition followed by a reward. Except Paper Mario, that is.
Also I have to say I found Paper Mario not one bit epic. The bosses are mostly small and use a total of two attacks on you.
I have to say though, the best part of Paper Mario is the ice castle, whatever it's called. That area is actually somewhat large and interesting.
Yes, but it depends on what the repitition is. If that means fighting a ton of enemies, that's one thing - but winning 100 rounds of a boring minigame takes it to a whole new level.
Also, I'd rather have a boss that uses a few attacks that make since than bosses that have all these crazy attacks that don't fit with their character. I don't get what the designers of SMRPG were thinking when they gave the Czar Dragon WATER BLAST, of all things. A fire creature using a water attack has to be one of the most nonsensical things I've ever seen in a popular RPG.
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Also, Yoshi's Story isn't bad, either.
If you think about it, Yoshi's Story is basically a N64 with less levels, characters, and story.
I striked out characters because I realized there are more than the ones in SPM.
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Another thing I really liked about SMRPG was how your teammates had a reason to travel with you. When Mallow joins the team he's out to...well, I probably shouldn't go into detail seeing how there's some people here who haven't played the game yet. In general terms, he's out on a journey with a specific goal in mind. That was missing in Paper Mario. Remember Watt's reason for joining Mario? She says something like, "You're going on an adventure? Sounds like fun! Me wanna join too!" The Paper Mario teammates just didn't seem very motivated or developed.
But really, in these debates of SMRPG vs. PM, I guess it really all comes down to your personal tastes.
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But really, in these debates of SMRPG vs. PM, I guess it really all comes down to your personal tastes.
Exactly. Just about everything comes down to personal tastes, which is why people shouldn't try to make it look like a fact that one game is better.
Here's a new picture.
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hiddenscepter.com%2Fmariorpgs2.png&hash=ec88aa4a86296aa5f73913080d47e902)
Is it easier to get now?
Also, on a side note, about the damage/HP scale on PM vs SMRPG, I was thinking and I have a hypothetical situation. Let's say there was a Mario RPG that started with the standard PM attack power of 2 (with Action Command), but Attack was an actual statistic instead of being upgraded 2 points throughout the game. Let's say it was upgraded by an average of 2 for every level you gained. If Mario leveled up 30 times in a period of 8 Chapters (about the established "maximum" in the two PM RPGs, though you can go higher in TTYD), his attack power would be around 60 at the end of 8 Chapters. If the game was longer than that, let's say the power would be 120 after 16 Chapters, 180 after 24 Chapters and 240 after 32 chapters, or whatever would be equivalent to chapters. Just a hypothetical thought device. What would you guys think of this?
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. . .
[picture not linked to because you know what it is]
. . .
Also, on a side note, about the damage/HP scale on PM vs SMRPG, I was thinking and I have a hypothetical situation. Let's say there was a Mario RPG that started with the standard PM attack power of 2 (with Action Command), but Attack was an actual statistic instead of being upgraded 2 points throughout the game. Let's say it was upgraded by an average of 2 for every level you gained. If Mario leveled up 30 times in a period of 8 Chapters (about the established "maximum" in the two PM RPGs, though you can go higher in TTYD), his attack power would be around 60 at the end of 8 Chapters. If the game was longer than that, let's say the power would be 120 after 16 Chapters, 180 after 24 Chapters and 240 after 32 chapters, or whatever would be equivalent to chapters. Just a hypothetical thought device. What would you guys think of this?
Picture is easier to understand now, thanks.
That idea might work. I have that impression that single-digit damage in the middle or late in the game is a sign that your attack is pretty worthless against that enemy. I suppose the reasoning is that enemies at that point in the game have a lot of HP, so single-digit damage barely causes a dent. Just the same, attacks during big bosses don't cause a dent when taken individually, but at least with a double or triple-digit number you get the feeling that you're doing serious damage. Even when you don't know how much HP an enemy has, certain ranges of HP damage seem to tell you how effective it might be (also, trying out different attacks and magic to see what does the most damage can give off that impression). In Super Mario RPG, since triple-digit damage soon becomes common, you start to think "I did double-digit damage? That's weak!"
You remember the Magmas or whatever those brown monsters were in the Moleville mine? Normal attacks only did 1HP damage, maybe 2, to it. That made me think this little guy was even stronger than Smithy when it came to wailing on it with normal attacks. Very strong hide to it. I think it has 50HP to it, which is a lot if you're routinely doing only 1-2HP damage to it. Plus, 1HP just has that impression of "you didn't hurt it one bit". Damage of 0HP is more rare and happens when you do something that wouldn't hurt the enemy in a million years, or when someone blocks an attack that would normally cause 1HP damage.
The other problem I see with scaling down to single-digit damage is that there's a decent range of damage that would fall under a range of 1HP. If you went up a few levels without an increase in attack power, that would seem strange (but not unheard of). I liked in Super Mario RPG that after going up one level, an attack that previously caused 30HP damage now causes maybe 31 or 32HP damage. That's really not much of an increase, but you get the feeling that you got marginally stronger anyway.
So, give me double digits early on and triple digits at least before the middle of the game. Maybe someone could hack Paper Mario to multiply all HP values by 5 or 10 or 15. Besides, attacking an enemy in Super Mario RPG only had like three possible HP damage values, all relative to whatever your current attack power was, and that's not too different from what Paper Mario had.
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But if you did that, it would still be exactly the same, but with higher multiples.
I actually prefer Paper Mario's low attack numbers.
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I'm afraid I still don't get the picture.. It's just the order they were released in, isn't it?
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Well ya, but it means he doesn't need other people to tell him which games are best.
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Yes, as arguably the first "serious" Mario game (made by two very great developers) and just as arguably the precursor of the modern RPG, it's a great game, but I would also say it is "somewhat overrated". However, this is primarily due to Nintendo's refusal to recogize it exists, which--as is frequent in videogame culture (i.e. Earthbound)--causes it to become elevated in people's minds to a level usually reserved for lesser deities ("they-don't-ever-talk-about-it-so-that-must-mean-its-awesome" mentality).
In addition, I'd just like to say that Paper Mario was great as well (as someone once said, SMPRG was an RPG--Final Fantasy, really--with Mario characters, but Paper Mario was a real "Mario RPG"), as was TTYD, though I found the latter somewhat derivative at times (and many of the areas were too left-to-right). As for the "third" Mario RPG series, I consider Mario & Luigi, with its refreshing creativity, unique battle system, and mirth, one of my all-time favorite games. PiT, meanwhile, was cripplingly linear and relied too heavily on Bros. Items. Super Paper Mario was flawless in almost every way. That is all.
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But if you did that, it would still be exactly the same, but with higher multiples.
I actually prefer Paper Mario's low attack numbers.
Is that because it's easy to tell how much damage your attacks will do? Longer games demand higher statistics. They could combat that with a detailed attack description, and by using percentages instead of set numbers to increase attacks by. Say Mario's attack power was 112...
Power Jump
A powerful attack that is 50% stronger than a standard Jump. Deals all damage at once.
Current Power: 168
If you were facing an enemy with, for example, 300 HP, it would be easy to tell that you'd take out about half their HP.
Also..."Mario's burned! 10% of his HP will go down each turn!", "Danger!" when you're at less then 20% of your max HP, and the like.
PiT, meanwhile, was cripplingly linear and relied too heavily on Bros. Items.
That's my least favorite Mario RPG as well. It's not a bad game, but it was way too linear, I didn't like the Bros. Items at all (give me Bros. Attacks any day), and the plot was just the standard "ONO PEACH GOT STOLENED AGAIN" with aliens and the Colbalt Star tossed in. I don't think they should have used the Top Screen as a map-they can only fit so many areas onto one screen, and it encourages cramming tons of areas into a small space, which discourages multiple paths and hidden areas. They often use blue pipes to transport between areas, which forces the areas into a linear structure-get to the blue pipe, go into the new area, get to the blue pipe again. I don't like having the entire layout of the place spoiled as soon as I reach it, either.
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I don't think they should have used the Top Screen as a map-they can only fit so many areas onto one screen, and it encourages cramming tons of areas into a small space, which discourages multiple paths and hidden areas. They often use blue pipes to transport between areas, which forces the areas into a linear structure-get to the blue pipe, go into the new area, get to the blue pipe again. I don't like having the entire layout of the place spoiled as soon as I reach it, either.
Yes! Exactly! It's the same with LoZ:PH--what's with games being made just so they can fit in a tiny rectangle when mapped?
I did like the Shroobs, though, even if most of the bosses were based on them.
Additionally, I think the whole "Paper Mario is lame because the attacks are small" thing is idiotic. Yeah, this has been addressed, but... c'mon, people, it's all ratios.
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They often use blue pipes to transport between areas, which forces the areas into a linear structure-get to the blue pipe, go into the new area, get to the blue pipe again.
My guess to why the blue pipes were used was to prevent the player from easily walking back and forth between two areas that used different maps. It might overload or something from the constant loading and re-loading of maps in the top screen.
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Hmm... *Does weighing hands gesture* Spend a little extra dev time making a game that won't "overload" when you go back-and-forth between areas, or make a game with cramped, short "levels"? (of course, we can't say for sure exactly what the pipes were for)
Also, that game was way too formulaic (but that kind of goes hand-in-hand with the linearity). Go into a timehole, go through three or four "overworld" sections, fight a miniboss, go through three or four "dungeon" section, fight a boss, cutscene/get or lose a Cobalt Star Shard (is there any point in the game where you have every piece at once?); repeat ad nauseum.
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Yeah. You do get all the pieces, but about that... It turns out that collecting the pieces was actually a bad idea because there were actually two Princess Shroobs. Peach imprisoned one of them in the Cobalt Star, broke it pieces and scattered them on purpose. So putting them together...yeah...
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No, I beat, the game; it's just that there was so much back-and-forth with finding and losing Star Shards that I can't completely recall.
On a somewhat related note, the whole "the sacred whatever(s) you have to bring together to restore peace will actually make something bad happen oh noes you got tricked" thing is a bit overplayed in Nintendo games (Wind Waker, Paper Mario: TTYD, Partners in Time).
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In my opinion, PiT was a terrible game, aside from the boss battles. The awesome music was its only saving grace. I really enjoyed fighting the bosses, but, as has already been stated, the whole attack item system was terribly flawed. It's not so much a bad concept, it was just put to use in the most unimaginative of ways. Bros. Items would have worked so much better if they were used in a way similar to, say, Final Fantasy VII's Materia. That is to say, you have this item, now you can do this attack which costs x amount of points. IF you sell this item, you can no longer do this attack.
As for SMRPG, it's a bit overrated. I have to say though, what's with all the Geno hate? I agree that there is too much fanboyish whining about him, but he's really not that bad of a character.
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In my opinion, PiT was a terrible game, aside from the boss battles. The awesome music was its only saving grace.
QFT (though I think the boss battles took way too long. Then again, I often got so sick of using Bros. Items that I resorted to intemittent "normal" attacks--which is why it took me three hours to beat the final boss)
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Oh. Sorry, SB. It kinda sounded like you eventually got tired of the game and never finished it.
Incidentally, it took a friend of mine a few hours to beat the final boss as well...because he did a low-level run. XD
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I have to say though, what's with all the Geno hate? I agree that there is too much fanboyish whining about him, but he's really not that bad of a character.
That happens with characters like Geno and Shadow (from Sonic). A large group of people think they're awesome, and then the other large group of people isn't so fond of them, gets annoyed, and starts hating them simply because the other group loves them. It doesn't make any sense, really.
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I don't think a large group of people ever thought Shadow was awesome.
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I hear it a lot on Sonic forums that Shadow is overrated. He was really popular in Sonic Adventure 2, wasn't he? It seems his popularity is declining though, likely because they ruined him in Shadow the Hedgehog.
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"Shadow! Defeat the Black Aliens! Use this conveniently placed and thoroughly Un-Sonicish rifle!"
...Yeah.
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Shadow's not overrated because he's not even "rated". His primary fanbase is sixth-graders who are saving up for a 360 and/or read Series of Unfortunate Events.
Okay, maybe that made no sense, but the point is... I'll refer you to the majority of posts on the "is Sonic or Mario cooler?" thread, or whatever.
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Basically all you do is fight a ton of enemies that are all the same
(note - I haven't actually played the whole game - it got too boring too quickly).
The second line explains why you shouldn't make a statement like that first one. Depending on how far it was you got in the game, you can't really say that. The enemies do infact change from area to area.
Anyhoo, I don't find the game overrated at all. The gameplay was fun and innovative, the story was good, and the characters were lovable. It's my favorite game of all time.
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The second line explains why you shouldn't make a statement like that first one. Depending on how far it was you got in the game, you can't really say that. The enemies do infact change from area to area.
Anyhoo, I don't find the game overrated at all. The gameplay was fun and innovative, the story was good, and the characters were lovable. It's my favorite game of all time.
You're assuming that I haven't gotten very far through the game at all. Actually, I have - the farthest I've ever gotten was 6/7 stars, which is the wide majority of the game. I could have beaten it if I wanted, but I got extremely bored and never finished it.
As for your reasons for loving it so much, they're all a matter of perspective. I personally think that the Paper Mario gameplay was great, because it both a great combat system (I personally don't care at all about the low attack and HP numbers) and lots of puzzles (and SMRPG was almost totally devoid of any puzzlework). As for loveable characters, there were plenty in Paper Mario as well. Characters like Kolorado, Tubba Blubba, Bow, Sushie, Goombario, Lakalister, and many others were all fun to see (and BTW, I personally think that most of the ones I listed are better than ultra-average Geno). The story... I admit that the first Paper Mario was pretty basic, plotwise, but the highly enjoyable and diverse characters made up for that. Besides, Paper Mario TTYD made up for that - it by far has one of the best storylines ever in a mario game, and IMO has the best of all the Mario RPG's.
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These are Mario games. It's ok to fight some form of Goomba in at least six out of eight areas (I know the RPG's have more areas than that, but you know what I mean..) There are going to be Goombas, Koopas. Paratroopas, ect wherever you go.
I like how the Paper Mario series (and even M&L) have varaitons on Goombas not seen in the platforming games (like the Spiked Goomba, or the Hyper Goomba). PM2 even goes a bit further and has various forms of Pirahna Plant. Those plants seem to be adaptable to just about anywhere..
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I realize that you never said how far you got into the game, hence why I said "Depending how far you got in the game..."
And yes, this is all a matter of opinion, I realize that. I never compared it to Paper Mario, another game I think is great. I don't really see how all the enemies are the same, they did pretty much just recycle a few enemies from early in the game and slapped them into the later levels, but pretty much every Mario game has done that.
I actually prefer the first Paper Mario as opposed to The Thousand Year Door, but the second one definately upped the challenge level, but pretty much all of the Mario RPG's have been using the same plot over and over again but altering it slightly. The plotline in Thousand Year Door is deeper, but it's not much different from Super Mario RPG and the first Paper Mario.
I'm not sure how this Shadow discussion started, but I personally think Shadow was cool in Sonic Adventure 2, but then just lost it all after Shadow the Hedgehog was made.
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RPGs don't need to have puzzles.
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RPGs don't need to have puzzles.
No one said they did, but puzzles can make the game more fun.
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I actually prefer the first Paper Mario as opposed to The Thousand Year Door, but the second one definately upped the challenge level, but pretty much all of the Mario RPG's have been using the same plot over and over again but altering it slightly. The plotline in Thousand Year Door is deeper, but it's not much different from Super Mario RPG and the first Paper Mario.
Are you referring to the whole "collect the 6/7/8 star/hearts and then go to the final area to fight the big bad boss" thing? They've been using that one to death, yes, but I don't think you can really call "Bowser stole the Star Rod, trapped the Star Spirits and Peach, now rescue them" and "A demon was sealed thousands of years ago that can only be opened by the Crystal Stars, a secret organization plans to unleash the demon, so they stole Peach to use her as a vessel, so collect the Stars and save Peach" the same plot. Gameplay-wise, yeah, it's similar, but at the core, taking every aspect of the story into account, they're almost entirely different plots. They're at least more varied than "Eggman has this new monster thing and uses the Chaos Emeralds to power it up but then it goes crazy and Sonic goes Super to defeat it". Mario and Luigi: SS did a good job by not being about collecting things, except for the Beanstar Hunt which didn't really take up a significant part of the game.
Just a question, but in your opinion, what makes the original PM better than TTYD? I'm not trying to degrade your opinion, but f you ask me, TTYD improved upon almost every aspect of the original: new, crisper graphics style, original and more epic plot, new major villain, slightly more mature content, etc. I finished PM1 and I'm currently playing TTYD again, and it's as amazing an experience as ever.
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And yes, this is all a matter of opinion, I realize that. I never compared it to Paper Mario, another game I think is great. I don't really see how all the enemies are the same, they did pretty much just recycle a few enemies from early in the game and slapped them into the later levels, but pretty much every Mario game has done that.
Yeah, I know you didn't, and I wasn't trying to fault you for it - I just personally don't like SMRPG that mch. Actually though, there is a LOT of enemy recycling in the later levels of the game - the majority of the creatures have some kind of advanced version that show up two or three stars after the original enemy. I don't have a problem with that very much- what I do have a problem with is the constant recycling of attacks. Almost every special attack in the game is used by more than one type of enemy. Water Blast is a perfect example of that - when you fight Yardovich (which IMO was the only challenging battle in the portion of the game I played), it seems really mighty and awe inspiring. But then they take that attack and give it to Culex, Czar Dragon (WTD?), and Magikoopa - and by that time it loses its awe and just becomes annoying. This is far from the only example, though.
I liked that in Paper Mario, while enemies didn't have as many attacks, there was little to no recycling of special moves - every enemy was unique, and the advanced versions of creatures were often pretty special. The Hyper Goombas and Shady Koopas were really cool, because they had special attacks that made them way different than the average enemy. Normal Koopas were always super easy, but the Shady Koopas were really powerful and annoying because of their cyclone attack. It wasn't that predictable when you faced new versions of old ememies - while in Super Mario RPG, every advanced version of an enemy was just the old enemy with better stats and a more powerful recycled attack.
RPGs don't need to have puzzles.
True, but that's why Paper Mario is unique and really cool, among other reasons. The castles and forts were actually more like Zelda dungeons with turn based battles - instead of being the usual "trudge through fortresses fighting 3 or four different types of enmies again and again until you reach the boss." Not saying that the latter is bad - it's just not really original, and can get a bit repetitive. But at least to me, Paper Mario never gets old. I've played through it four times, and each time I loved it even more. :)
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Ah yes, I do agree that the attacks were recycled way too much among the enemies. IMO, Jonny and Smithy were more challenging than Yaridovich, (Although after I beat the game for the first time they all became pretty easy) Surprisingly, I didn't find Culex to be all that challenging.
Oh, and I also know that you weren't trying to fault me.
Just a question, but in your opinion, what makes the original PM better than TTYD? I'm not trying to degrade your opinion, but f you ask me, TTYD improved upon almost every aspect of the original: new, crisper graphics style, original and more epic plot, new major villain, slightly more mature content, etc. I finished PM1 and I'm currently playing TTYD again, and it's as amazing an experience as ever.
Don't get me wrong, I still loved The Thousand Year Door, I just found it lacking innovation. The Mario RPG's have tended to build upon what was used in the previous Mario RPG's, but The Thousand Year Door pretty much just recycled most of the things used in the first Paper Mario. Goombella=Goombario, Koops=Kooper, Bobbery=Bombette, Vivian=Bow, boat transformation=Sushi, etc etc. The hammer upgrades were just the same ones from the first game only they took longer to execute. The Thousand Year Door definately has some areas in which it's better than the first, like the deeper storyline, it was more challenging, there were more sidequests and areas to explore and such. But overall I just found the first Paper Mario more enjoyable.
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Ah yes, I do agree that the attacks were recycled way too much among the enemies. IMO, Jonny and Smithy were more challenging than Yaridovich, (Although after I beat the game for the first time they all became pretty easy) Surprisingly, I didn't find Culex to be all that challenging.
Well, I dunno about Smithy, since I haven't actually faced him yet, but Johnny was a piece of cake, IMO. If you kept him stuck with only one goon during the entire battle by getting rid of the other three, he wasn't that powerful. I agree about Culex though - all you have to do is use the star egg and have Bowser with the Lazy Shell armor as one of your active partners. The star egg eventually rips through all of Culex's crystals, and since Bowser can't really be harmed barely at all, it's not a tough battle. In fact, eventually Culex runs out of FP, so the last 5 turns or so are the easiest ever. :P
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Yeah, I know you didn't, and I wasn't trying to fault you for it - I just personally don't like SMRPG that mch. Actually though, there is a LOT of enemy recycling in the later levels of the game - the majority of the creatures have some kind of advanced version that show up two or three stars after the original enemy. I don't have a problem with that very much- what I do have a problem with is the constant recycling of attacks. Almost every special attack in the game is used by more than one type of enemy.
Well, it was made in the 90's by Square, the definitive RPG-maker of the day (and, as S-E, still). Back then, pallet-swaped/stronger enemies and nonspecific magic attacks were kind of the norm.
Don't get me wrong, I still loved The Thousand Year Door, I just found it lacking innovation.
Indeed, PM2 did lift things from its predecessor, but what irked me about it the most was just that most of the areas were too A-to-B (that seems to be something quite a few Nintendo games have suffered from lately). Look at Yoshi's Jungle in PM, then look at, say, Boggly Woods in PM2. There's nary a branching path to be seen in the latter. Granted, it's Paper Mario, so it makes sense to not be too free-roaming, but it still felt like two steps forward, one step back. Other minor things that made me raise an eyebrow: The inexplicable rip-offery of Hooktail from Valoo, the stereotypically Russian Bob-Ombs, and Grodus' use of the word "asinine" (I've heard mixed opinions on how "bad" that adjective is. Okay, maybe that's not worth complaining about). It was still a good game though, definitely full of clever elements to balance out the "borrowing", a wonderful graphical style, and boss music I just can't get out of my head (Doopliss and the Shadow Queen's theme, to name the, shall we say, "offenders").
Also, there was that part where Princess Peach was technically running around a military base on the moon naked, but hey.
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"Asinine" is not in any way a taboo word.
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*Reminds self to let mom know that at some point*
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asinine
1. extremely or utterly foolish / foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid
2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of donkeys (and the other similar thing to donkey).
Seems according to where the word comes from, it's a word to compare someone to a donkey (in a negative sense, saying that being a donkey is a bad thing). I can see why people would take that as insulting, but I don't see it as a profane word. I guess if you shouted it to someone in their face then it would. Words only seem to be insulting and/or profane depending on how you use them... well, anyway, this is not a discussion on such words.
I always thought it hilarious that Culex could run out of FP. I think only one other enemy or boss in the game can run out of FP. Didn't think that was possible. Maybe he didn't pack enough Royal Syrups with him. But I always put the Lazy Shell armor on Peach (she can bring allies back to life through magic) and never thought about using the Star Egg.
I kind of wish Sheep Attack made it into later Mario RPGs. It was like a "free pass" move.
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I always thought it hilarious that Culex could run out of FP. I think only one other enemy or boss in the game can run out of FP.
Isn't there a lot of enemies that can run out? I frequently saw "Monster's FP is gone!" when fighting normal enemies.
At what situation in the game does Grodus use that word? It must be sometime after Chapter 4, because that's where I am right now, although it's possible I could've just skipped over the word if it was earlier, like I evidently did the other times I played through the game. I do that a lot with words I don't know. If I can gather its meaning from context clues, great, if not, forget about it.
I like when Mario characters use borderline words, in fact. It helps detach Mario from a kiddy reputation in my eyes. "In my eyes" being the key words.
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I think only one other enemy or boss in the game can run out of FP.
All enemies can run out of FP. I've experimented: by staying in a battle (regular or boss) for a really long time (some of them a really long time) the foe can, in fact, run out of FP. The most common ones that I saw were the Blooper, the Leukos, and.. something else (not Culex).
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Today I started a new game from scratch and have high hopes of finishing it, finally!
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Oh, by the way, Super Mario RPG was released for the Virtual Console today. It's the 250th game to hit the Virtual Console, so it had to be something special.
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Over-rated? I'm about to find out...