Fungi Forums

Miscellaneous => General Chat => Not at the Dinner Table => Topic started by: Glorb on June 04, 2009, 03:32:50 PM

Title: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 04, 2009, 03:32:50 PM
I speak in this case not only of internet memes, but also cultural and pop-cultural memes. As I've said before, internet memes are, to me at least, extraordinarily unfunny, and a lazy attempt at real humor. Cultural memes have a somewhat more rigorous way of seperating the wheat from the chaff by way of being passed down through the generations (so much so that things like the chicken/road joke are instantly recognizable to almost anyone). Internet memes have no such built-in quality control; this, coupled with anonymity and a demand for attention, leads to lame attempts by internet people at getting their own slice of the humor pie. On a case-by-case basis this is harmless, but left unchecked, could lead to people's standards of humor being lowered substantially.

So, the moral of this rant is probably: Let things become memes on their own and don't try and make them yourself.

And also yeah this is a poll I sort of forgot about that.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 04, 2009, 03:35:38 PM
I question the need for this poll. Nevertheless, I like YouTube Poop. Most people lump YTP in with memes.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 04, 2009, 05:00:08 PM
I think it's unfair to dismiss all internet memes as stupid. Some are dumber than others, yes, and idiots will abuse them, but that's the case with any form of humor. I think the annoyance stems from the fact that they're just really easy to "make", per se.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Sqrt2 on June 04, 2009, 05:37:48 PM
I think that memes are OK, as long as I'm not constantly having them thrust in my face/quoted.


Then they get annoying.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Turtlekid1 on June 04, 2009, 06:15:50 PM
You can't apply a blanket condemnation for memes.  They have varying degrees of comedy to them.  Most memes are stupid, but I do find a few funny.

Also, context is king.  They cease to be funny if, as Sqrt2 pointed out, they're constantly and mercilessly referred to.  But a well-timed meme quote/reference is comic gold.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Rao on June 04, 2009, 06:26:27 PM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg8.imageshack.us%2Fimg8%2F3479%2Fyodawgyoyos.jpg&hash=7ff4b02c0bdf1c2c98bb4f3a63f78eb4)
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 04, 2009, 06:51:53 PM
Yeah, my friend was telling me about that one the other day. I figured it was like some kind of snowclone, though, not an image thing.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 04, 2009, 07:18:40 PM
It's primarily snowclone, not an image-based meme. It's also one of the few examples of a genuinely entertaining meme.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: FlamingBlueMario on June 04, 2009, 08:40:42 PM
I have mixed feelings about Internet memes. I guess some can be funny (Rao's post was a little funny) while others tend to fall flat on their faces. Can't say that I like them, but can't really say that I hate them either. 
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Ultima Shadow on June 05, 2009, 12:25:36 AM
Like some memes, loathe the majority of YouTube Poop.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: SolidShroom on June 05, 2009, 04:54:07 AM
Memes are alright--but can be harmful, not unlike anything else that has ever existed. For one, people enjoy it when they have things in common with other people. This is just nature. Well when significant amounts of our humor is based around memes, then these people already may have something in common before they even say a single word to one another. And with this, perhaps the memes can break the ice and later lead to friendships. Plus, there are plenty of people who use memes cleverly, which often produces funny results.

However, I think that ******bag who started the swirly rainbow background behind the cutout of a head macro should be caned. I mean, way to make an easy as crap layout for morons to use to make unfunny garbage quickly and easily.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 05, 2009, 07:07:18 AM
However, I think that ******bag who started the swirly rainbow background behind the cutout of a head macro should be caned. I mean, way to make an easy as crap layout for morons to use to make unfunny garbage quickly and easily.
TEM?
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 05, 2009, 09:29:23 AM
I'm assuming SolidShroom is uninformed, should've said, "the ******bag who stole TEM's picture and made it into an unfunny image macro".
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 05, 2009, 10:11:13 AM
Actually, Encyclopedia Dramatica acknowledges that Advice Dog did originate from this site.

Well...sort of. "Others argue it originated on Mario's fansite forum" are the exact words, with "others argue" linking to another article entirely.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 05, 2009, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: TEM
ShadowBrian had to go and ruin the joke.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Chupperson Weird on June 05, 2009, 11:06:02 AM
"others argue" is another meme iirc.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 05, 2009, 12:13:46 PM
Yup, it is.

Curious members who have never been to or heard of ED should take caution. Most hyperlinks there send you to shock images.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 05, 2009, 05:27:18 PM
Quote from: TEM
ShadowBrian had to go and ruin the joke.
Hey, when?
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Weegee on June 05, 2009, 07:25:32 PM
Curious members who have never been to or heard of ED should take caution. Most hyperlinks there send you to shock images.

The above advice is genuine sage wisdom. Take it to heart, kids.

Seemingly, the extent to which one revels or detests memery depends primarily on how closely one can relate to the meme in question. Most Nintendo fans would be more supportive of the spread of, say, LINK MAH BOIII or Weegee than Longcat or Rickrolling simply because they can closer relate to the meme's topic. On that note, IS ADVICE DOG SERIOUSLY FROM OUR TMK?! :0
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: SolidShroom on June 05, 2009, 07:57:13 PM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmyspace-054.vo.llnwd.net%2F01066%2F45%2F06%2F1066876054_l.jpg&hash=0241a8f0c8254fd30ed46ecb49f6edc0)
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: nensondubois on June 05, 2009, 08:03:04 PM
Memes are just one other by-product of the internet that is as unsavory as phishing and twittering, facebook, and bad quality videos. Yet I have rickrolled many people. (I think rickrolling is the only savory meme.)
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 06, 2009, 08:14:25 AM
Well, the thing about rickrolling is that I've heard it's not even original. Used to be "duckrolling", with pictures of ducks. Of course, that information itself may have been some sort of bizarre meta-roll...
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 06, 2009, 09:29:03 AM
Of course, that information itself may have been some sort of bizarre meta-roll...

If that's true, then my mind just got blown.

IS ADVICE DOG SERIOUSLY FROM OUR TMK?! :0

Let me tell y'all a story about a Left 4 Dead game I played recently. Some guy sprayed an advicedog spray (interestingly, sans text, so it might have been the original, untexted image) and I offhandedly mentioned that I'm Steam friends with, and frequent the same forum as, the guy who started that meme.

Spray guy: Nuh-uh.
Me: Yeah. It's true. He's a normal human who eats, breathes, everything. [my apologies to TEM if these assumptions are wrong]
Spray guy: So, what forum, 4chan or something?
Me: (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstevefeldman.com%2Farchive%2Far_jpgs%2Fa251_300%2Far_0271.jpg&hash=194b5b30a19b3ef80a09408aa98e4372)
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: CrossEyed7 on June 06, 2009, 09:59:15 AM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yodawgyo.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F934%2FXzibit%2520facepalm.jpg&hash=9e422098a195407f98466ef9d5f020be)
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 06, 2009, 10:09:37 AM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fi%2F181%2Foriginal%2F5e67e7d4636302faa04bff35f385f519.gif&hash=c47a2977c3733c1943e1a16c42e978fc)

Probably the only meme I actively enjoy aside from rickrolling and Vince.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: CrossEyed7 on June 06, 2009, 10:13:25 AM
The "Yo Dawg" meme or the "classing up existing memes" meme?
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Weegee on June 06, 2009, 11:21:23 AM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F26%2F134521750_17cec7ab7f.jpg%3Fv%3D0&hash=eb1949080cf3317f04913849b3bea475)

I hadn't heard of this "Yo Dawg" meme up until only a few days ago... how queer. Anyways, the below image is arguably the internet's first and oldest meme:

(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheweightinggame.ivillage.com%2Fdietfitness%2FDANCING_BABY.gif&hash=6ef3d4bb8dcc6469b41771b80f1aa9ea)

It's a baby... and it's dancing! What could possibly be funnier?!
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Chupperson Weird on June 06, 2009, 11:21:58 AM
Yes, Rickrolling is a ripoff of duckrolling, which involved linking to a picture of a duck on wheels. I think.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 06, 2009, 11:23:37 AM
The "Yo Dawg" meme or the "classing up existing memes" meme?

The Yo Dawg meme. The CUEM meme is apparently ridiculously hard to pull off judging by the number of images that attempt to do so by using nonexistant words or misspelling big-sounding ones.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: SolidShroom on June 06, 2009, 12:10:40 PM
Anyways, the below image is arguably the internet's first and oldest meme:
I'd be more willing to argue in favor of the whole "Ate My Balls" (http://artemis.centrum.is/~loftur/homer.html) thing.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 06, 2009, 01:15:47 PM
Oh, man, AMB. I remember looking at a few of those long, long ago...
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: CrossEyed7 on June 07, 2009, 12:09:39 AM
The Meme Timeline (http://www.dipity.com/tatercakes/Internet_Memes) dates Dancing Baby to October 21, 1996, and Ate My Balls to December 31, 1995. Both, however, are younger than Dysfunctional Family Circus (Jun 1995), the Trojan Room Coffee Pot (1993; the original webcam), B1FF, the development of Godwin's Law (both c. 1990), the first emoticon (September 18, 1982), and many other classics.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Jake on June 11, 2009, 11:19:08 AM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.encyclopediadramatica.com%2Fimages%2Ff%2Ff1%2FLiekmudkipz.jpg&hash=b5dab97ab48a8f1a96e8a627bae6c4fc)

But yeah, some internet memes are great, some suck. Most of my favorites are troll memes, like Moon Man, the only good meme from that rotting pile known as YTMND.

As for irl memes, don't really care for them.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Luigison on June 11, 2009, 01:16:51 PM
Real life memes happen all the time.  One person dances and then others join the dance.  Someone claps and/or laughs and others do likewise.  Someone states a political or religious believe and others agree.  These type of memes have been around for a very long time, but in fairly recent times companies and interest groups have taken advantage of them.  Sitcoms recorded in front of a life studio audience with people paid to get the crowd to laugh/clap.  Paid political pundits at rallies to get the crowd pumped-up.  Real life memes go beyond such obvious examples.  Cultural, religious, and political believes can even be classified as memes. 
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 11, 2009, 04:06:54 PM
Hell, you can even count human civilization as a meme: one dude started messing with some rocks, which led to other dudes messing with sticks as well as rocks, which led to fire as well as weapons, which led to weaponizing fire, which led to territorial disputes, which led to cities, which led to language and culture, etc. etc.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 11, 2009, 04:29:16 PM
Religion is a meme...that sounds about right.

In fact, it sounds 100% correct.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 11, 2009, 04:32:07 PM
Hell, you can even count human civilization as a meme: one dude started messing with some rocks, which led to other dudes messing with sticks as well as rocks, which led to fire as well as weapons, which led to weaponizing fire, which led to territorial disputes, which led to cities, which led to language and culture, etc. etc.
Oh good, someone sees it that way, too.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Weegee on June 11, 2009, 04:49:24 PM
For the sake of the discussion, perhaps we should limit our definition of "MEMES" for the time being to contextual internet humour. Otherwise we'll be arguing over the meme which is the societal norm of wearing clothes in public.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 11, 2009, 05:12:25 PM
Agreed (and always have).
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on June 11, 2009, 05:24:37 PM
Erm,

I speak in this case not only of internet memes, but also cultural and pop-cultural memes.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: CrossEyed7 on June 11, 2009, 05:32:05 PM
"And when you stop to think about it, even the ground, the earth is like a huge spring. It transmits shock from one point to another."
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Mr. Wiggles on August 24, 2009, 08:22:42 PM
As I've said before, internet memes are, to me at least, extraordinarily unfunny, and a lazy attempt at real humor.

Define real humor.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on August 25, 2009, 01:39:45 PM
Internet memes attempt to create humor by taking something, be it a phrase, picture, facial expression, or concept, and saying, doing, or repeating it over and over again with occasional variations, on the off-chance that sooner or later, something funny will be produced.

Furthermore, these days internet memes are pretty much all completely forced; unlike concepts that evolved naturally into the public consiousness (for example, the Rickroll, which started as a surreal one-off joke), pretty much any internet meme you see today will have been started with the sole purpose of creating an internet meme.

Real humor doesn't rely on force-feeding you something over and over again to be considered funny. Real humor doesn't need to be spread to hundreds of people on 4chan or reach internet stardom to be considered successful.

Glad to answer your three-month-old question, Wiggles.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: SolidShroom on August 25, 2009, 01:45:19 PM
Internet memes spout from things that are funny, sure. I mean most people find these heavily repeated things that were once funny before they were overplayed to be a much simpler alternative to the arduous and often unsuccessful task of being originally funny. And of course, the human mind functions through repetition, so it's only human nature to find Memes funny after seeing them several times.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: CrossEyed7 on August 25, 2009, 02:13:43 PM
I think part of it is that most of us spend too much time on the internet and end up seeing them a lot more often.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Mr. Wiggles on August 25, 2009, 03:26:49 PM
Internet memes attempt to create humor by taking something, be it a phrase, picture, facial expression, or concept, and saying, doing, or repeating it over and over again with occasional variations, on the off-chance that sooner or later, something funny will be produced.

Furthermore, these days internet memes are pretty much all completely forced; unlike concepts that evolved naturally into the public consiousness (for example, the Rickroll, which started as a surreal one-off joke), pretty much any internet meme you see today will have been started with the sole purpose of creating an internet meme.

So here we get to the root of the problem. You've admitted you hate 4chan or any similar site that memes seem to sprout from, and yet assume all memes (other than Rickroll) are completely forced by the original poster attempting to gain some laughs from its audience.

As someone who's actually witnessed certain memes catch on, I can easily tell you forced memes do not survive for the most part. They may flood threads or boards with these jokes but unless its significantly unique it will never live beyond that autosaging thread it was birthed in.

Also, good job discrediting things that were non-memes at first, like our very own Boba Fett eventually morphing into Advice Dog.

Quote
Real humor doesn't rely on force-feeding you something over and over again to be considered funny. Real humor doesn't need to be spread to hundreds of people on 4chan or reach internet stardom to be considered successful.

That's still not explaining what real humor is. You're simply saying what real humor isn't.

Quote
Glad to answer your three-month-old question, Wiggles.

I just read the thread yesterday.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: BP on August 25, 2009, 04:22:23 PM
Using memes to try to be funny is like Glass Joe using headgear to try to be a better boxer. Both are unsightly, pretty wimpy, and neither work.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on August 25, 2009, 04:35:17 PM
So here we get to the root of the problem. You've admitted you hate 4chan or any similar site that memes seem to sprout from, and yet assume all memes (other than Rickroll) are completely forced by the original poster attempting to gain some laughs from its audience.
I'm not assuming all memes are forced. However, these days, humorous internet memes are almost uniformly manufactured with the intent of creating a meme. And that doesn't just mean posting an image of Milhouse over and over again. See, if something spreads based on its own merits (in this case, funniness), that's great. But now, people see something funny and say, "Hey! This should be spread so as to become identified as a meme!" There's a big difference between spreading and being spread.

Also, good job discrediting things that were non-memes at first, like our very own Boba Fett eventually morphing into Advice Dog.
How did I "discredit" Boba Fett?

That's still not explaining what real humor is. You're simply saying what real humor isn't.
You're just splitting hairs.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Weegee on August 25, 2009, 04:47:38 PM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm78%2Faarrgghhv2%2FcostanzaPopcorn.gif&hash=f7db63abe8a83cbeb34b8da98f0c21e8)
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Mr. Wiggles on August 25, 2009, 05:00:59 PM
I'm not assuming all memes are forced. However, these days, humorous internet memes are almost uniformly manufactured with the intent of creating a meme. And that doesn't just mean posting an image of Milhouse over and over again. See, if something spreads based on its own merits (in this case, funniness), that's great. But now, people see something funny and say, "Hey! This should be spread so as to become identified as a meme!" There's a big difference between spreading and being spread.

Umm, as far as I remember, it's always been like that. Someone sees a funny image or video, and they share it with others in hopes that they find the humor as well. The formula hasn't changed, only the outlets have. You've got people who've moved around from Something Awful to 4chan, or from YTMND to YouTube.

Quote
How did I "discredit" Boba Fett?
Quote
pretty much any internet meme you see today will have been started with the sole purpose of creating an internet meme.

I highly doubt TEM posted that picture of his dog so a bunch of anonymous users could add contradicting text to it and post it whenever someone comes for help.

Quote
You're just splitting hairs.

and you're avoiding my question. See, this is called going around in circles.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on August 25, 2009, 05:44:56 PM
Tell me where I said TEM tried to start a meme with Boba Fett's picture. That's a textbook example of a meme that was started with the intention of starting a meme, just using someone else's content. In that case, it's even worse.

And since you desperately need this answered: "Real" humor is something that somebody considers funny enough that is capable of propagating on its own. In other words, it spreads because people think it's funny, not because people want to see it spread.

And Weegee, posting a popcorn gif doesn't automatically make something a fight.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Mr. Wiggles on August 25, 2009, 05:53:46 PM
But then how do you know that the poster who posted the first Advice Dog image expected it to catch on and become a meme? You weren't there when it made its debut in a thread, and you're most likely not the guy who posted it, so you can't say for sure the OP posted it in hopes of it becoming a meme.

Now if you argued that Courage Wolf or Emo Dog were forced memes, then you'd have a solid argument there since both of them were created as spin-offs of Advice Dog with the hopes of catching on.

I could also apply the same blanket logic to that second statement of yours. Just because a few have tried to create memes by forcing them in threads doesn't mean all of them do that.

Why do you think certain memes have survived the test of time? Why do you think Caturday eventually became the mainstream lolcats? Why do you think Rickrolling made its way into the media beyond a fake-out GTA4 trailer on /v/?
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on August 25, 2009, 06:10:58 PM
I could also apply the same blanket logic to that second statement of yours. Just because a few have tried to create memes by forcing them in threads doesn't mean all of them do that.

But that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that the vast majority of things we on the internet refer to as "memes" are designed with the intent to become widespread. And forgive me if I'm being pessimistic here, but I highly doubt anyone on the internet in this day and age would take an iconic emblem (say, Boba Fett's head surrounded by a color spectrum) and couple it with a distinctive text pattern ([verb] (a) [noun](s), <Boba Fett's head>, [verb] (a) [noun](s)) and post it on 4chan and not expect it to catch on. You don't have to re-re-repost an image repeatedly to force a meme.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Weegee on August 25, 2009, 06:16:49 PM
And Weegee, posting a popcorn gif doesn't automatically make something a fight.

That's it. It's on.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Mr. Wiggles on August 25, 2009, 06:38:24 PM
Ok, I can see this is going nowhere fast so I'll make this my final point-counterpoint post and then politely bow out of this debate.

By the time these memes are considered memes, they've already experienced widespread popularity among 4chan or other sites, which justifies their categorization as memes. They can't be designed to spread if they already have. As much as you hate Encyclopedia Dramatica, it works as a good gauge to see what can be considered a meme and what's just a bunch of failed in-jokes that never caught on.

For your second doubt, that does seem more like pessimism speaking rather than logic. If nothing else, why don't you try to create your own unique template image, post it on 4chan and see if it actually catches on? You'll realize it isn't as simple as you make it out to be.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: Glorb on August 25, 2009, 06:40:41 PM
Maybe I will.

And then the next time you see a meme and think it's funny and are about to reference it, think to yourself: Did Glorb start that?
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: WarpRattler on August 25, 2009, 07:50:04 PM
Here's an example from a couple of years ago. Thread didn't even reach autosage.
Title: Re: MEMES
Post by: ShadowBrain on August 25, 2009, 07:56:28 PM
Glorb's right for the most part, but these days, with the prevalence of memes, most everyone who posts something original and funny on the internet will probably have a small thought of it becoming a meme--it's no stranger than a novice author visualizing his debut getting a movie deal. Nothing short of mind-reading will probably ever be able to determine when some intends to start a meme.