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1441
Forum Games / Re: Let's count to a million FOR REAL
« on: June 15, 2012, 02:24:40 AM »
Oh, The New Yorker. You simply slay me.
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Oh, The New Yorker. You simply slay me.
1442
Forum Games / Re: Let's count to a million FOR REAL
« on: June 14, 2012, 11:56:58 PM »
State of Arizona
House of Representatives
Forty-ninth Legislature
Second Regular Session
2010
HOUSE BILL 2281
AN ACT
AMENDING TITLE 15, CHAPTER 1, ARTICLE 1, ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES, BY ADDING
SECTIONS 15-111 AND 15-112; AMENDING SECTION 15-843, ARIZONA REVISED
STATUTES; RELATING TO SCHOOL CURRICULUM.
(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)
- i -
H.B. 2281
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
Section 1. Title 15, chapter 1, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes,
is amended by adding sections 15-111 and 15-112, to read:
15-111. Declaration of policy
THE LEGISLATURE FINDS AND DECLARES THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL PUPILS SHOULD BE
TAUGHT TO TREAT AND VALUE EACH OTHER AS INDIVIDUALS AND NOT BE TAUGHT TO
RESENT OR HATE OTHER RACES OR CLASSES OF PEOPLE.
15-112. Prohibited courses and classes; enforcement
A. A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE SHALL NOT INCLUDE
IN ITS PROGRAM OF INSTRUCTION ANY COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING:
1. PROMOTE THE OVERTHROW OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
2. PROMOTE RESENTMENT TOWARD A RACE OR CLASS OF PEOPLE.
3. ARE DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR PUPILS OF A PARTICULAR ETHNIC GROUP.
4. ADVOCATE ETHNIC SOLIDARITY INSTEAD OF THE TREATMENT OF PUPILS AS
INDIVIDUALS.
B. IF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION DETERMINES THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IS IN
VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION A, THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT
OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION SHALL NOTIFY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL THAT
IT IS IN VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION A. IF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION DETERMINES THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR
CHARTER SCHOOL HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH SUBSECTION A WITHIN SIXTY DAYS AFTER
A NOTICE HAS BEEN ISSUED PURSUANT TO THIS SUBSECTION, THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION MAY DIRECT THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO WITHHOLD UP TO TEN PER CENT OF THE MONTHLY
APPORTIONMENT OF STATE AID THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE DUE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR
CHARTER SCHOOL. THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHALL ADJUST THE SCHOOL DISTRICT
OR CHARTER SCHOOL'S APPORTIONMENT ACCORDINGLY.
WHEN THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION DETERMINES THAT THE
SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH SUBSECTION A, THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHALL RESTORE THE FULL AMOUNT OF STATE AID PAYMENTS
TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL.
C. THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHALL PAY FOR ALL EXPENSES OF A HEARING
CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION.
D. ACTIONS TAKEN UNDER THIS SECTION ARE SUBJECT TO APPEAL PURSUANT TO
TITLE 41, CHAPTER 6, ARTICLE 10.
E. THIS SECTION SHALL NOT BE CONSTRUED TO RESTRICT OR PROHIBIT:
1. COURSES OR CLASSES FOR NATIVE AMERICAN PUPILS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO
COMPLY WITH FEDERAL LAW.
2. THE GROUPING OF PUPILS ACCORDING TO ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE, INCLUDING
CAPABILITY IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, THAT MAY RESULT IN A DISPARATE IMPACT BY
ETHNICITY.
- 1 -
H.B. 2281
3. COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE THE HISTORY OF ANY ETHNIC GROUP AND
THAT ARE OPEN TO ALL STUDENTS, UNLESS THE COURSE OR CLASS VIOLATES
SUBSECTION A.
4. COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE THE DISCUSSION OF CONTROVERSIAL
ASPECTS OF HISTORY.
F. NOTHING IN THIS SECTION SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO RESTRICT OR PROHIBIT
THE INSTRUCTION OF THE HOLOCAUST, ANY OTHER INSTANCE OF GENOCIDE, OR THE
HISTORICAL OPPRESSION OF A PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNICITY,
RACE, OR CLASS.
Sec. 2. Section 15-843, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
15-843. Pupil disciplinary proceedings
A. An action concerning discipline, suspension or expulsion of a pupil
is not subject to title 38, chapter 3, article 3.1, except that the governing
board of a school district shall post regular notice and shall take minutes
of any hearing held by the governing board concerning the discipline,
suspension or expulsion of a pupil.
B. The governing board of any school district, in consultation with
the teachers and parents of the school district, shall prescribe rules for
the discipline, suspension and expulsion of pupils. The rules shall be
consistent with the constitutional rights of pupils and shall include at
least the following:
1. Penalties for excessive pupil absenteeism pursuant to section
15-803, including failure in a subject, failure to pass a grade, suspension
or expulsion.
2. Procedures for the use of corporal punishment if allowed by the
governing board.
3. Procedures for the reasonable use of physical force by certificated
or classified personnel in self-defense, defense of others and defense of
property.
4. Procedures for dealing with pupils who have committed or who are
believed to have committed a crime.
5. A notice and hearing procedure for cases concerning the suspension
of a pupil for more than ten days.
6. Procedures and conditions for readmission of a pupil who has been
expelled or suspended for more than ten days.
7. Procedures for appeal to the governing board of the suspension of a
pupil for more than ten days, if the decision to suspend the pupil was not
made by the governing board.
8. Procedures for appeal of the recommendation of the hearing officer
or officers designated by the board as provided in subsection F of this
section at the time the board considers the recommendation.
C. Penalties adopted pursuant to subsection B, paragraph 1 of this
section for excessive absenteeism shall not be applied to pupils who have
completed the course requirements and whose absence from school is due solely
- 2 -
H.B. 2281
to illness, disease or accident as certified by a person who is licensed
pursuant to title 32, chapter 7, 13, 15 or 17.
D. The governing board shall:
1. Support and assist teachers in the implementation and enforcement
of the rules prescribed pursuant to subsection B of this section.
2. Develop procedures allowing teachers and principals to recommend
the suspension or expulsion of pupils.
3. Develop procedures allowing teachers and principals to temporarily
remove disruptive pupils from a class.
4. Delegate to the principal the authority to remove a disruptive
pupil from the classroom.
E. If a pupil withdraws from school after receiving notice of possible
action concerning discipline, expulsion or suspension, the governing board
may continue with the action after the withdrawal and may record the results
of such action in the pupil's permanent file.
F. In all action concerning the expulsion of a pupil, the governing
board of a school district shall:
1. Be notified of the intended action.
2. Either:
(a) Decide, in executive session, whether to hold a hearing or to
designate one or more hearing officers to hold a hearing to hear the
evidence, prepare a record and bring a recommendation to the board for action
and whether the hearing shall be held in executive session.
(b) Provide by policy or vote at its annual organizational meeting
that all hearings concerning the expulsion of a pupil conducted pursuant to
this section will be conducted before a hearing officer selected from a list
of hearing officers approved by the governing board.
3. Give written notice, at least five working days before the hearing
by the governing board or the hearing officer or officers designated by the
governing board, to all pupils subject to expulsion and their parents or
guardians of the date, time and place of the hearing. If the governing board
decides that the hearing is to be held in executive session, the written
notice shall include a statement of the right of the parents or guardians or
an emancipated pupil who is subject to expulsion to object to the governing
board's decision to have the hearing held in executive session. Objections
shall be made in writing to the governing board.
G. If a parent or guardian or an emancipated pupil who is subject to
expulsion disagrees that the hearing should be held in executive session, it
shall be held in an open meeting unless:
1. If only one pupil is subject to expulsion and disagreement exists
between that pupil's parents or guardians, the governing board, after
consultations with the pupil's parents or guardians or the emancipated pupil,
shall decide in executive session whether the hearing will be in executive
session.
- 3 -
H.B. 2281
2. If more than one pupil is subject to expulsion and disagreement
exists between the parents or guardians of different pupils, separate
hearings shall be held subject to this section.
H. This section does not prevent the pupil who is subject to expulsion
or suspension, and the pupil's parents or guardians and legal counsel, from
attending any executive session pertaining to the proposed disciplinary
action, from having access to the minutes and testimony of the executive
session or from recording the session at the parent's or guardian's expense.
I. In schools employing a superintendent or a principal, the authority
to suspend a pupil from school is vested in the superintendent, principal or
other school officials granted this power by the governing board of the
school district.
J. In schools that do not have a superintendent or principal, a
teacher may suspend a pupil from school.
K. In all cases of suspension, it shall be for good cause and shall be
reported within five days to the governing board by the superintendent or the
person imposing the suspension.
L. RULES PERTAINING TO THE DISCIPLINE, SUSPENSION AND EXPULSION OF
PUPILS SHALL NOT BE BASED ON RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, NATIONAL ORIGIN OR
ANCESTRY.
IF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, THE AUDITOR GENERAL OR THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL DETERMINES THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT IS SUBSTANTIALLY AND
DELIBERATELY NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SUBSECTION AND IF THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT HAS FAILED TO CORRECT THE DEFICIENCY WITHIN NINETY DAYS AFTER
RECEIVING NOTICE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION MAY WITHHOLD THE MONIES THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD
OTHERWISE BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE FROM THE DATE OF THE DETERMINATION OF
NONCOMPLIANCE UNTIL THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DETERMINES THAT THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SUBSECTION.
L. M. The principal of each school shall ensure that a copy of all
rules pertaining to discipline, suspension and expulsion of pupils is
distributed to the parents of each pupil at the time the pupil is enrolled in
school.
M. N. The principal of each school shall ensure that all rules
pertaining to the discipline, suspension and expulsion of pupils are
communicated to students at the beginning of each school year, and to
transfer students at the time of their enrollment in the school.
Sec. 3. Effective date
This act is effective from and after December 31, 2010.
House of Representatives
Forty-ninth Legislature
Second Regular Session
2010
HOUSE BILL 2281
AN ACT
AMENDING TITLE 15, CHAPTER 1, ARTICLE 1, ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES, BY ADDING
SECTIONS 15-111 AND 15-112; AMENDING SECTION 15-843, ARIZONA REVISED
STATUTES; RELATING TO SCHOOL CURRICULUM.
(TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)
- i -
H.B. 2281
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
Section 1. Title 15, chapter 1, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes,
is amended by adding sections 15-111 and 15-112, to read:
15-111. Declaration of policy
THE LEGISLATURE FINDS AND DECLARES THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL PUPILS SHOULD BE
TAUGHT TO TREAT AND VALUE EACH OTHER AS INDIVIDUALS AND NOT BE TAUGHT TO
RESENT OR HATE OTHER RACES OR CLASSES OF PEOPLE.
15-112. Prohibited courses and classes; enforcement
A. A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE SHALL NOT INCLUDE
IN ITS PROGRAM OF INSTRUCTION ANY COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING:
1. PROMOTE THE OVERTHROW OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
2. PROMOTE RESENTMENT TOWARD A RACE OR CLASS OF PEOPLE.
3. ARE DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR PUPILS OF A PARTICULAR ETHNIC GROUP.
4. ADVOCATE ETHNIC SOLIDARITY INSTEAD OF THE TREATMENT OF PUPILS AS
INDIVIDUALS.
B. IF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC
INSTRUCTION DETERMINES THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IS IN
VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION A, THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT
OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION SHALL NOTIFY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL THAT
IT IS IN VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION A. IF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION OR THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION DETERMINES THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR
CHARTER SCHOOL HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH SUBSECTION A WITHIN SIXTY DAYS AFTER
A NOTICE HAS BEEN ISSUED PURSUANT TO THIS SUBSECTION, THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION MAY DIRECT THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION TO WITHHOLD UP TO TEN PER CENT OF THE MONTHLY
APPORTIONMENT OF STATE AID THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE DUE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR
CHARTER SCHOOL. THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHALL ADJUST THE SCHOOL DISTRICT
OR CHARTER SCHOOL'S APPORTIONMENT ACCORDINGLY.
WHEN THE STATE BOARD OF
EDUCATION OR THE SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION DETERMINES THAT THE
SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH SUBSECTION A, THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHALL RESTORE THE FULL AMOUNT OF STATE AID PAYMENTS
TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL.
C. THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SHALL PAY FOR ALL EXPENSES OF A HEARING
CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION.
D. ACTIONS TAKEN UNDER THIS SECTION ARE SUBJECT TO APPEAL PURSUANT TO
TITLE 41, CHAPTER 6, ARTICLE 10.
E. THIS SECTION SHALL NOT BE CONSTRUED TO RESTRICT OR PROHIBIT:
1. COURSES OR CLASSES FOR NATIVE AMERICAN PUPILS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO
COMPLY WITH FEDERAL LAW.
2. THE GROUPING OF PUPILS ACCORDING TO ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE, INCLUDING
CAPABILITY IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, THAT MAY RESULT IN A DISPARATE IMPACT BY
ETHNICITY.
- 1 -
H.B. 2281
3. COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE THE HISTORY OF ANY ETHNIC GROUP AND
THAT ARE OPEN TO ALL STUDENTS, UNLESS THE COURSE OR CLASS VIOLATES
SUBSECTION A.
4. COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE THE DISCUSSION OF CONTROVERSIAL
ASPECTS OF HISTORY.
F. NOTHING IN THIS SECTION SHALL BE CONSTRUED TO RESTRICT OR PROHIBIT
THE INSTRUCTION OF THE HOLOCAUST, ANY OTHER INSTANCE OF GENOCIDE, OR THE
HISTORICAL OPPRESSION OF A PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNICITY,
RACE, OR CLASS.
Sec. 2. Section 15-843, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
15-843. Pupil disciplinary proceedings
A. An action concerning discipline, suspension or expulsion of a pupil
is not subject to title 38, chapter 3, article 3.1, except that the governing
board of a school district shall post regular notice and shall take minutes
of any hearing held by the governing board concerning the discipline,
suspension or expulsion of a pupil.
B. The governing board of any school district, in consultation with
the teachers and parents of the school district, shall prescribe rules for
the discipline, suspension and expulsion of pupils. The rules shall be
consistent with the constitutional rights of pupils and shall include at
least the following:
1. Penalties for excessive pupil absenteeism pursuant to section
15-803, including failure in a subject, failure to pass a grade, suspension
or expulsion.
2. Procedures for the use of corporal punishment if allowed by the
governing board.
3. Procedures for the reasonable use of physical force by certificated
or classified personnel in self-defense, defense of others and defense of
property.
4. Procedures for dealing with pupils who have committed or who are
believed to have committed a crime.
5. A notice and hearing procedure for cases concerning the suspension
of a pupil for more than ten days.
6. Procedures and conditions for readmission of a pupil who has been
expelled or suspended for more than ten days.
7. Procedures for appeal to the governing board of the suspension of a
pupil for more than ten days, if the decision to suspend the pupil was not
made by the governing board.
8. Procedures for appeal of the recommendation of the hearing officer
or officers designated by the board as provided in subsection F of this
section at the time the board considers the recommendation.
C. Penalties adopted pursuant to subsection B, paragraph 1 of this
section for excessive absenteeism shall not be applied to pupils who have
completed the course requirements and whose absence from school is due solely
- 2 -
H.B. 2281
to illness, disease or accident as certified by a person who is licensed
pursuant to title 32, chapter 7, 13, 15 or 17.
D. The governing board shall:
1. Support and assist teachers in the implementation and enforcement
of the rules prescribed pursuant to subsection B of this section.
2. Develop procedures allowing teachers and principals to recommend
the suspension or expulsion of pupils.
3. Develop procedures allowing teachers and principals to temporarily
remove disruptive pupils from a class.
4. Delegate to the principal the authority to remove a disruptive
pupil from the classroom.
E. If a pupil withdraws from school after receiving notice of possible
action concerning discipline, expulsion or suspension, the governing board
may continue with the action after the withdrawal and may record the results
of such action in the pupil's permanent file.
F. In all action concerning the expulsion of a pupil, the governing
board of a school district shall:
1. Be notified of the intended action.
2. Either:
(a) Decide, in executive session, whether to hold a hearing or to
designate one or more hearing officers to hold a hearing to hear the
evidence, prepare a record and bring a recommendation to the board for action
and whether the hearing shall be held in executive session.
(b) Provide by policy or vote at its annual organizational meeting
that all hearings concerning the expulsion of a pupil conducted pursuant to
this section will be conducted before a hearing officer selected from a list
of hearing officers approved by the governing board.
3. Give written notice, at least five working days before the hearing
by the governing board or the hearing officer or officers designated by the
governing board, to all pupils subject to expulsion and their parents or
guardians of the date, time and place of the hearing. If the governing board
decides that the hearing is to be held in executive session, the written
notice shall include a statement of the right of the parents or guardians or
an emancipated pupil who is subject to expulsion to object to the governing
board's decision to have the hearing held in executive session. Objections
shall be made in writing to the governing board.
G. If a parent or guardian or an emancipated pupil who is subject to
expulsion disagrees that the hearing should be held in executive session, it
shall be held in an open meeting unless:
1. If only one pupil is subject to expulsion and disagreement exists
between that pupil's parents or guardians, the governing board, after
consultations with the pupil's parents or guardians or the emancipated pupil,
shall decide in executive session whether the hearing will be in executive
session.
- 3 -
H.B. 2281
2. If more than one pupil is subject to expulsion and disagreement
exists between the parents or guardians of different pupils, separate
hearings shall be held subject to this section.
H. This section does not prevent the pupil who is subject to expulsion
or suspension, and the pupil's parents or guardians and legal counsel, from
attending any executive session pertaining to the proposed disciplinary
action, from having access to the minutes and testimony of the executive
session or from recording the session at the parent's or guardian's expense.
I. In schools employing a superintendent or a principal, the authority
to suspend a pupil from school is vested in the superintendent, principal or
other school officials granted this power by the governing board of the
school district.
J. In schools that do not have a superintendent or principal, a
teacher may suspend a pupil from school.
K. In all cases of suspension, it shall be for good cause and shall be
reported within five days to the governing board by the superintendent or the
person imposing the suspension.
L. RULES PERTAINING TO THE DISCIPLINE, SUSPENSION AND EXPULSION OF
PUPILS SHALL NOT BE BASED ON RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, NATIONAL ORIGIN OR
ANCESTRY.
IF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, THE AUDITOR GENERAL OR THE
ATTORNEY GENERAL DETERMINES THAT A SCHOOL DISTRICT IS SUBSTANTIALLY AND
DELIBERATELY NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SUBSECTION AND IF THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT HAS FAILED TO CORRECT THE DEFICIENCY WITHIN NINETY DAYS AFTER
RECEIVING NOTICE FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, THE SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION MAY WITHHOLD THE MONIES THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD
OTHERWISE BE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE FROM THE DATE OF THE DETERMINATION OF
NONCOMPLIANCE UNTIL THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION DETERMINES THAT THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THIS SUBSECTION.
L. M. The principal of each school shall ensure that a copy of all
rules pertaining to discipline, suspension and expulsion of pupils is
distributed to the parents of each pupil at the time the pupil is enrolled in
school.
M. N. The principal of each school shall ensure that all rules
pertaining to the discipline, suspension and expulsion of pupils are
communicated to students at the beginning of each school year, and to
transfer students at the time of their enrollment in the school.
Sec. 3. Effective date
This act is effective from and after December 31, 2010.
1446
General Chat / Re: Classic quotes from forum members
« on: June 12, 2012, 12:16:19 AM »Am I the only person who's idea of fun is bodily fluids?
1447
Forum Games / Re: You Nostalgia, You Lose
« on: June 11, 2012, 11:31:17 PM »
I nostalgiaed when I went back to the first page and for some reason it reminded me of the night of the "...FOR REAL!" flood. Does that count?
1450
Mario Chat / Re: Paper Mario 3DS images
« on: June 11, 2012, 04:57:55 PM »
That's pretty much what I was getting at with them being like the chests -- they're only there to fulfill arbitrarily necessary gameplay mechanics, and to be funny. You worded it better, though.
Paper Mario and Thousand-Year Door did a great job making a real coherent world, making characters feel like actual people with fears and aspirations, and being genuinely endearing while maintaining a great sense of humor. The Mario & Luigi games, probably by virtue of being a handheld series, tend to dispense with any seriousness and just be funny. There are no real characters in Superstar Saga -- pretty much everyone is just a one-off gag in the ongoing slapstick routine. Like when you get the S.S. Chuckola into the water and it floats for a few seconds, with the captain jumping for joy up on the deck, and then it hits a rock and sinks -- from that moment on, the doors into the ship are permanently shut and you never see any of the crew members ever again. All those people are trapped in there forever, and the game doesn't even pretend otherwise. I'm supposed to just laugh and move on, but I just felt really bad for all of them.
(Incidentally, SMRPG didn't do that. Almost every character shows up later somewhere or gets visited again -- Raz and Raini, Booster, Valentina, Johnny, Belome, Knife Guy and Grate Guy. Most of the characters that don't -- Monstermama, Hinopio, Ma and Pa Mole -- at least have the decency to stay in one accessible place so you know they're still alive. The bosses, being robotic weapons, show up again in a sense when we find out that they were prototypes for mass production. The only characters who are kinda like Mario & Luigi characters would be Punchinello and the random unexplained bosses in the rushed endgame -- Cloaker, Domino, Count Down, Gunyolk, Clerk, et. al.)
With Super Paper Mario, a little bit of the comedic sadism (or at least misanthropic detachment) of the Mario & Luigi series started creeping in. Not that there's anything wrong with Mario & Luigi, but there's a reason there are multiple serieses. I hope Sticker Star can keep the empathy of the Paper games. Having partners is a really good way to do that, but if they can do it another way, I'm up for it.
I really want a Paper Mario game on the Wii U, though.
Paper Mario and Thousand-Year Door did a great job making a real coherent world, making characters feel like actual people with fears and aspirations, and being genuinely endearing while maintaining a great sense of humor. The Mario & Luigi games, probably by virtue of being a handheld series, tend to dispense with any seriousness and just be funny. There are no real characters in Superstar Saga -- pretty much everyone is just a one-off gag in the ongoing slapstick routine. Like when you get the S.S. Chuckola into the water and it floats for a few seconds, with the captain jumping for joy up on the deck, and then it hits a rock and sinks -- from that moment on, the doors into the ship are permanently shut and you never see any of the crew members ever again. All those people are trapped in there forever, and the game doesn't even pretend otherwise. I'm supposed to just laugh and move on, but I just felt really bad for all of them.
(Incidentally, SMRPG didn't do that. Almost every character shows up later somewhere or gets visited again -- Raz and Raini, Booster, Valentina, Johnny, Belome, Knife Guy and Grate Guy. Most of the characters that don't -- Monstermama, Hinopio, Ma and Pa Mole -- at least have the decency to stay in one accessible place so you know they're still alive. The bosses, being robotic weapons, show up again in a sense when we find out that they were prototypes for mass production. The only characters who are kinda like Mario & Luigi characters would be Punchinello and the random unexplained bosses in the rushed endgame -- Cloaker, Domino, Count Down, Gunyolk, Clerk, et. al.)
With Super Paper Mario, a little bit of the comedic sadism (or at least misanthropic detachment) of the Mario & Luigi series started creeping in. Not that there's anything wrong with Mario & Luigi, but there's a reason there are multiple serieses. I hope Sticker Star can keep the empathy of the Paper games. Having partners is a really good way to do that, but if they can do it another way, I'm up for it.
I really want a Paper Mario game on the Wii U, though.
1451
Mario Chat / Re: Paper Mario 3DS images
« on: June 11, 2012, 02:24:19 PM »Is it? They were more or less what set the first two Paper Mario games apart from anything else. Super Paper Mario did have the same quality writing and some nice stories contained within the chapters, but without characters tying the player's party to that, everything becomes less memorable...
And the thing is, Super Paper Mario could've had that if the writing had developed in a different direction. There's quite an extensive backstory, including about the twelve Pixls, but other than Tippi (and even she only really becomes an interesting character toward the end), it's all hidden away in the crazy drunk guy in the milk bar, never brought to the forefront, and it's never tied in coherently with the actual settings of the game. They could have developed that backstory more and made it frontstory and given the Pixls more character and humanity (...er... hnauity?) than just comic relief. I love the plot and settings and lore of Super Paper Mario, but as a game, the whole package doesn't hold together nearly as well as Thousand-Year Door did.
Okay, in Thousand-Year Door, there were those chests that "cursed" you and gave you the paper powers, right? And while they're obviously essential for gameplay purposes, the characters of the chests seem like they're just comic relief that have absolutely nothing to do with the real story when you're playing through. But if you play all the way to the end and go out of your way to read everything from the multiple backstory guys and start piecing everything together, you come to realize that it's very likely that the chests are actually the four legendary heroes who sealed away the Shadow Queen with the Crystal Stars 1,000 years ago, so that's cool. In Super Paper Mario, they pretty much did that for the Pixls. Thing is, once they made the Pixls seem like they were just comic relief characters with no real ties to anything until you read the backstory, there wasn't a good replacement for the partners. Peach, Bowser, and Luigi fill in for them a little bit, but like BP said, you always have to play as Mario so you can obsessively flip into 3D everywhere, so you don't get to hear Peach, Bowser, and Luigi's dialog most of the time, so there's just never good partner dialog. Which is rather ridiculous considering by the end of the game there are well over a dozen people in your party.
1453
Forum Games / Re: What's on your Paste?
« on: June 10, 2012, 06:54:22 AM »
0.35714285714285714285714285714286
1454
Mario Chat / Re: Paper Mario 3DS images
« on: June 09, 2012, 06:49:56 PM »
The sticker battle system -- with stickers used for both attacking and defending -- kinda reminds me of the original Baten Kaitos.
1455
Mario Chat / Re: Luigi's Mansion 2
« on: June 09, 2012, 04:15:43 AM »
I'm more skeptical of this now than I was when it was announced. When I think about it, I loved Luigi's Mansion because it was something completely fresh and new at the time, it was highly atmospheric and immersive (and, while keeping a classic Mario sense of humor, could actually be rather creepy), and it was short, sweet, and elegant. Dark Moon is a sequel, which right away is going to make it less fresh; it looks like it's going to be tilting more toward funny than scary (though that could just be the way they're portraying it for E3); it's going to be less immersive simply by virtue of being on a handheld rather than a console (less comfortable controller, lower resolution, smaller screen, have to worry about the battery running out, etc.); and most of all, because it's a sequel and because they've gotta do something new (or "new") and add content (or "content"), it's looking much more videogamey.
Luigi's Mansion was a short game. So short that, if it were released today for $40, some people would complain. "Puzzle-solving mechanics", especially in recent Nintendo flagship titles, tends to be code for "filler." Think modern Zelda games. And those bullet points up there positively scream "generic videogamey filler BS."
They mentioned in the conference that there's going to be a flashlight upgrade that gives it a rainbow beam. Why are there flashlight upgrades? So they can have ghosts that arbitrarily only respond to a Lvl. 2 Flashlight.
Admittedly, if you're making a sequel to Luigi's Mansion -- especially on a handheld -- you pretty much have to go in the direction of "Like Luigi's Mansion, only moreso." But that's really just an argument for not making a sequel in the first place, letting the original stand on its own, and doing something else new and creative and completely different again.
Luigi's Mansion isn't Age of Empires or Gears of War or some other type of game where you can make a sequel where you just do all the same things again but better, plus more things, plus lots and lots of things. It's not the kind of game to have an Endless Mode. This is why so many people hated Metroid Prime 2 -- it was a sequelly sequel that took an elegantly-crafted experience and turned it into a video game with arbitrary locks and keys everywhere to make it feel more like a video game. Making Luigi's Mansion 2 feels like if Jason Rohrer had made Passage 2: Now with optional polygamy! Now with the ability to go left! Now with weekly DLC outfits for your character! Now with unlockable radar to help find the treasures! Now with colored keys and doors -- solve the puzzle by matching the colors!
Some of the new elements of Dark Moon would have been good as a second quest-type thing for the original game, but I'm not convinced this can work as a standalone game eleven years after the fact. Why not make it a second quest, actually? Why not an HD remake of the original game for Wii U, playable with the Pro Controller, or with the uPad as the Game Boy Horror, and then add some new features for a New Game Plus mode (and also add analog triggers to the Wii U for crying out loud)? Why is this even a handheld game at all? I mean, making Paper Mario handheld, okay, that's understandable, you want to show off the 3DS's better graphics and the 3D effects and all, but Luigi's Mansion of all things? That is not a handheld game.
Quote
• Shining a light on the ghosts is no longer enough to stun them into immobility. Players(from this press release)
need to activate a strobe function and release it to stun the ghosts before sucking them
up with the Poltergust.
• Different types of ghosts haunt the different mansions. Luigi must figure out how to defeat
each one of them and find hidden secrets to unlock new areas and treasure chests.
These new elements add more variety and introduce new puzzle-solving mechanics.
• Players can use the Poltergust to help Luigi remove wallpaper to reveal hidden areas,
clean up piles of treasure-hiding leaves or suck up stacks of coins and bills. But in reality,
the nervous and reluctant Luigi just wants to get as far away from these ghosts as
possible.
Luigi's Mansion was a short game. So short that, if it were released today for $40, some people would complain. "Puzzle-solving mechanics", especially in recent Nintendo flagship titles, tends to be code for "filler." Think modern Zelda games. And those bullet points up there positively scream "generic videogamey filler BS."
They mentioned in the conference that there's going to be a flashlight upgrade that gives it a rainbow beam. Why are there flashlight upgrades? So they can have ghosts that arbitrarily only respond to a Lvl. 2 Flashlight.
Admittedly, if you're making a sequel to Luigi's Mansion -- especially on a handheld -- you pretty much have to go in the direction of "Like Luigi's Mansion, only moreso." But that's really just an argument for not making a sequel in the first place, letting the original stand on its own, and doing something else new and creative and completely different again.
Luigi's Mansion isn't Age of Empires or Gears of War or some other type of game where you can make a sequel where you just do all the same things again but better, plus more things, plus lots and lots of things. It's not the kind of game to have an Endless Mode. This is why so many people hated Metroid Prime 2 -- it was a sequelly sequel that took an elegantly-crafted experience and turned it into a video game with arbitrary locks and keys everywhere to make it feel more like a video game. Making Luigi's Mansion 2 feels like if Jason Rohrer had made Passage 2: Now with optional polygamy! Now with the ability to go left! Now with weekly DLC outfits for your character! Now with unlockable radar to help find the treasures! Now with colored keys and doors -- solve the puzzle by matching the colors!
Some of the new elements of Dark Moon would have been good as a second quest-type thing for the original game, but I'm not convinced this can work as a standalone game eleven years after the fact. Why not make it a second quest, actually? Why not an HD remake of the original game for Wii U, playable with the Pro Controller, or with the uPad as the Game Boy Horror, and then add some new features for a New Game Plus mode (and also add analog triggers to the Wii U for crying out loud)? Why is this even a handheld game at all? I mean, making Paper Mario handheld, okay, that's understandable, you want to show off the 3DS's better graphics and the 3D effects and all, but Luigi's Mansion of all things? That is not a handheld game.
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