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Author Topic: Official Zelda timeline revealed?  (Read 10030 times)

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« on: December 21, 2011, 11:14:59 PM »
Source.

Main Timeline
1. Skyward Sword
2. Minish Cap
3. Four Swords.
4. Ocarina Of Time

Split 1: Link defeats Ganon — childhood branch
a) Majora's Mask
b) Twilight Princess
c) Four Swords Adventures

Split 2: Link defeats Ganon — adult branch
a) Wind Waker
b) Phantom Hourglass
c) Spirit Tracks

Split 3: Link fails in Ocarina Of Time
a) A Link To The Past
b) Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons
c) Link's Awakening
d) The Legend of Zelda
e) Zelda II: The Adventure of Link



I haven't thought about it in too much detail yet, but the three-way split actually makes a lot of sense. When LttP talked about the Imprisoning War like it was an actual war, it wasn't talking about OoT as we know it, it was talking about the way the situations in OoT would have played out without one kid going around doing everything.

When exactly is Link's failure in the LttP timeline, though? Did he die in a dungeon, at the final battle, or did Ganon kill him as a baby, or what?

Does this mean that Four Swords is meant to be the origin of Dark Link, including OoT Dark Link?
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 11:45:19 PM »
I wouldn't think it matters. Is it canon that he killed all the Skulltulas and got Biggoron's Sword? Not important--you see the same ending(s) when you win. When you die, you see the same "YOU DIED, SUCKER"
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 03:18:17 AM »
I have trouble beliving that Nintendo would make a branch in which Link fails to defeat Ganon.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 10:07:48 AM »
I have a feeling it was more like they started out making Ocarina of Time intending it to be the Imprisoning War in the Link to the Past backstory, and then when they finished it, they looked at it and said "Oh, wait, there's not really a war in there, is there?"

Besides, it's not much darker than the opening scroll in Wind Waker.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 10:32:25 AM »
Besides, it's not much darker than the opening scroll in Wind Waker.
It would be about 20% rather darker in my mind.  When Hyrule was flooded, it was because there was no one to fight for them - Link was just gone, either long dead or somewhere else.  But to actually have him fail would be a lot more decisively "the villain won" as opposed to "the villain had no one to challenge him."  From what I know about OoT (keeping in mind I still haven't played it all the way through), it could very well be called a "war," considering you had every race in Hyrule - only represented by the Sages, sure, but still there - fighting against Ganon.

Also, the timeline that made the most sense to me when I saw it a while back had the original and Adventure of Link take place in the Adult timeline, near the end - if I recall, the guy who posted it argued that they took place in the original Hyrule after the flood waters had receded.

Not that I ever really bothered to think too hard about the timeline for this series.  I'll just go back over to the Metroid fanbase and be all snooty about its having a clear chronology, nyah-nyah.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 04:38:29 PM »
Maybe it's a matter of that particular Link's gimmick as the hero of time. Nobody else has any timeline splits except him. It makes sense for Time Link to have at least the two, for the two time periods where he actively stops Ganon in different ways, but nobody else has a what-if-he-did-what-if-he-didn't scenario. In a way, he saved another reality from inexistence simply by theoretically doing nothing!

To ease your pain of "BUT HOW COULD THE BADGUY WIN" you could instead imagine that Rauru forgot to wake Link up after seven years because he is a loopy old man
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 04:40:07 PM by BP »
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 07:10:18 PM »
Other people have suggested that Ganon might've won during the seven years Link was asleep, or won because Link had to go back in time to get the Lens of Truth and whatnot.

« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 07:36:39 PM »
I guess this would explain why LttP's Hyrule is in such a [dukar]ty state.

Where do the CD-i games fit in?
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 09:04:52 PM »
Where do the CD-i games fit in?

The alternate timeline where Link has an acid trip.
If my son could decimate Lego cities with his genitals, I'd be [darn] proud.

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2011, 02:44:27 AM »
SNES intro text for LttP:
Quote from: SNES
Long ago, in the beautiful kingdom of Hyrule surrounded by mountains and forests... legends told of an omnipotent and omniscient Golden Power that resided in a hidden land.
Many people aggressively sought to enter the hidden Golden Land... But no one ever returned.
One day evil power began to flow from the Golden Land... So the King commanded seven wise men to seal the gate to the Land of the Golden Power.
That seal should have remained for all time...
...But, when these events were obscured by the mists of time and became legend...
A mysterious wizard known as Agahnim came to Hyrule to release the seal. He eliminated the good King of Hyrule...
Through evil magic, he began to make descendants of the seven wise men vanish, one after another.
And the time of destiny for Princess Zelda is drawing near.

Canonical GBA intro:
Quote from: GBA
Long ago, in Hyrule, a beautiful kingdom surrounded by forests and mountains... legends told of an omnipotent and omniscient Golden Power that lay hidden.
It was hidden in a sacred realm beyond the reach of men, but one day... ...a doorway to that realm was suddenly opened...
Hoping to claim the Golden Power as their own, the people began to quarrel and fight... Many sought to enter the hidden Golden Land... But none returned, and instead evil power began to issue forth from the dark portal... So the king commanded seven sages to seal the gate to the land of the Golden Power. Many brave knights were lost in the battle to protect the sages from the tides of evil, but the seal was cast! Evil flowed no more! And the seal would remain for all time...Or so the people hoped...But when these events were obscured by the mists of time, and became legend...
A mysterious wizard known as Agahnim appeared as from nowhere... and with strange magic powers he eliminated the good king of Hyrule...
He cast spells on the soldiers and kidnapped young maidens descended from the sages in order to break the seal...
This destiny fast approaches for the final maiden... the princess, Zelda...
So the door to the Sacred Realm was opened somehow, but no one came out of it with the Triforce (except Ganon[dorf] apparently?). Sounds like Link opened the Door of Time and then died or something? Also there's no mention of the hero, even though this revision was done after Ocarina, and had revisions made that seem to be specifically intended to bolster the ties to Ocarina (e.g., changing "Seven Wise Men" to "Seven Sages" (some say they should've made the maidens have the same races as the OoT Sages if that's what they were going for, but I don't subscribe to virulent anti-miscegnation propaganda like that)). Not mentioning a hero is a big detriment to the (apparently now Jossed anyway) theory that Four Swords Adventures was the Imprisoning War, but as a sequel to the Failure timeline, it fits.

So, Wind Waker is in the Adult timeline, Twilight Princess is in the Child timeline, and Link to the Past is in the Failure timeline. That sounds about right all around, doesn't it?

Where do the CD-i games fit in?
Maybe there's another timeline split before Skyward Sword, where the difference is that everyone is stupid, and that's also where the TV show goes. Maybe Bowser went back in time and kidnapped Star Children there too and that's just the way that stupid TV show alternate universes get created in this multiverse.

And incidentally, I am taking Miyamoto's tolerance of a three-way timeline split in Zelda as definitive proof that my three-way Mario timeline split theory is absolutely correct.

Which reminds me, those purple bouncy Octoroks that are on floating rocks in the sky in Skyward Sword are totally Electrogoombas (which are now called Octoombas apparently (but the picture down there is of a variant on them that's just called Octopus which I picked because they resemble them even more)).



There's also the pink ones that look a lot like Land Octoroks:



Crossbreed the pink ones with the brown ones, and in a few millennia, you've got Sky Octoroks.

Now, Fi says in Skyward Sword that the Grass Octoroks evolved from some kind of ocean-dwelling mollusk-like things, but what does that goddessless scientist know? If Grass Octoroks evolved from Water Octoroks, then why are there still Water Octoroks, huh? You can't explain that. (Everstones)

Besides, those are Deku Scrubs.



So how many timelines are there, if Mario and Zelda are in the same 'verse? If both serieses have at least one timeline split, and one series comes before the other, does only one of the first series's branches lead to the world of the other series, or do all of its branches lead to slightly different versions of the other series? Maybe Mario comes first (I've always leaned toward this, honestly), and when Bowser splits the timeline into the one where Mario and Luigi grow up in the Mushroom Kingdom and the one where they grow up in Brooklyn and have really stupid TV show adventures, the Brooklyn timeline leads into the Zelda TV show and the CDi games, while the Mushroom Kingdom timeline eventually leads to Skyward Sword.

I kinda maneuvered that back into being on topic, I guess.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 03:48:54 AM by CrossEyed7 »
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 03:18:11 AM »
If you want to take it in that direction, the frequent Mario references throughout the LoZ series and Link's cameo in SMRPG confirm your hypotheses.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 03:46:51 AM »
Unless Nintendo releases a book called "Mushroom Kingdom Historia" then there ain't no timeline split for Mario.

Quote
I mean, if Grass Octoroks evolved from Water Octoroks, then why are there still Water Octoroks?

Because evolution doesn't work that way.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2011, 05:10:05 AM »
I like how we were all "ooh! Canon timeline! So the debate and speculation will finally end!"

How could I have been so naive
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 08:35:44 AM »
I do find it rather funny that the first game is one of the last games to happen in the "FAIL" storyline.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2011, 08:38:02 AM »
When has canon ever stopped fanon, even if it is deliberately opposed to the official story?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

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