Fungi Forums
Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: Lizard Dude on June 12, 2009, 03:41:05 PM
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This article (http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/) goes a long way towards explaining why the Mario series definitely has no canon.
Also: Peach is officially a "glutton".
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I want to see the airship cake scene.
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I just hope "less story" doesn't mean "less Rosalina."
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I'd wager that it means "no Rosalina". If he's really intent on stripping the plotline down to its basics, that presumably equtes to another good ol' case of Bowser kidnapping the princess. Again.
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WHO'D HAVE EXPECTED THAT TO HAPPEN, EH WEEGEE?
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I bet she's in another castle or galaxy.
ZOMG, PLOT TWIST!
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Super Mario Galaxy 2 won’t have as deep a storyline as its predecessor, says Mario’s creator Shigeru Miyamoto.
Can someone tell me how Galaxy had a 'deep' story.
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It never really called it deep. It said 'as deep'. Meaning, even in Galaxy was shallow, it will be deeper than Galaxy 2. Just like a rain puddle is deeper than a bottle cap full of water.
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Exactly. When put into the context of the Mario series, Galaxy's plot is harder to follow than watching all three instalments of the Matrix at once.
Backwards.
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.aohW
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Still, that article proves that the fans aren't the ones who like the idea of a somewhat deeper storyline set in Mario's world. Part of the reason is that well...it happens to lend itself really well to storytelling. Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi have both proven this.
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I think this pretty much sums up why Mario is to Miyamoto as Star Wars is to George Lucas. They should be kept as far away from their creators as possible because those guys are nuts and just want to mess stuff up.
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But what's perfect about Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi games is that they wrap themselves up as promptly as their simple, platforming brethren. There are no cliffhangers or open ends. The villain is defeated and it's all good. The Thousand-Year Door had a pseudo-cliffhanger at the end with Peach's new map, but it was never one anybody expected would lead to a sequel anyway.
No spoilers ahead.
Anyway, for being a traditional Mario game, Galaxy's story was perfect. A dramatic opening and a very compelling reason to collect power stars, and it's heavily implied that the 121 you collect are but a fraction of how many exist in the universe, all scattered about as nothing more than great sources of power. In 64, you just kept collecting them because they unlocked doors and because "Bowser stole them." The ending of Galaxy is fittingly dramatic to match the beginning, but for no true reason... It's the same as usual. "Check it out, Bowser's plans failed again. Yaaay." In 64 you just beat Bowser like normally and you see Peach. She finally gets to work on the cake she said she had baked for you. Probably ate it already, that glutton.
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Well, "hate" is a strong word, especially since he said that's it's really just the Mario games he seeks to deny a "deep" plot (I do disagree, though, that having a deeper plot will make the game, I don't know, "darker"). I'd like the Mario games to have good plots (SMS worked fairly well and SMG's was underrated) but I understand the games can function fine without them (and have). However, there's trying to make a plot and failing, and then there's flat-out refusing to make up a plot just 'cause. On the other hand, this pretty much assuages my (admittedly irrational) fears of the game having the exact same plot as SMG.
...Then again, I guess it technically will have the same plot.
Also, Peach is cake-obsessed?
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I wonder if the people who protested Fat Princess have anything to say about that.
If there's enough plot leeway, I'm probably going to just pretend that SMG2 is the "new world" Rosalina said you'd go to when you got 120 stars, and that the whole getting the same stars again as Luigi was just Luigi's dream / schizophrenic delusion (related to the theory that the Luigi you play as is a personification of Luigi's bravery and heroism and the Luigi that Luigi rescues is a personification of his cowardice and dependence).
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The interview with Yoshiaki Koizumi linked from the article was pretty interesting too. You have to wonder though, why Miyamoto would have anything against a more developed plot. While I agree that you shouldn't have an overly dramatic sob story for a Mario game, it would be nice to see him in a more developed situation rather than just "My gurl is kidnapped, I have to save her". I think that's what selling the Mario RPGs, cuz we can see these characters, who are usually just symbolisms of various things (Mario = You, Bowser = Obstacle, Peach = Goal) become actual characters and do things we haven't seen them do before. Like someone said, Mario games lends themselves pretty well to storytelling mostly because the world in them is so well established.
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If there's enough plot leeway, I'm probably going to just pretend that SMG2 is the "new world" Rosalina said you'd go to when you got 120 stars
Yeah, that kind of occured to me as well a week back or so, too.
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But what's perfect about Paper Mario and the Mario & Luigi games is that they wrap themselves up as promptly as their simple, platforming brethren. There are no cliffhangers or open ends. The villain is defeated and it's all good. The Thousand-Year Door had a pseudo-cliffhanger at the end with Peach's new map, but it was never one anybody expected would lead to a sequel anyway.
I doubt anybody's asking for something ongoing when they say they want a story. This isn't a drama serial or anything. Mario is more like a saturday morning cartoon with self-contained episodes, sometimes with recurring characters and themes (which is to be expected).
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Also, Peach is cake-obsessed?
Well her board in the original Mario Party was a birthday cake. And she did invite Mario over for cake at the beginning of SM64.
So I guess she is cake-obsessed (although I'd have thought the cake boss in SMRPG would have put her off cake for life)...
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She didn't have to fight it though.
Mario games don't need a deeper plot. They are fine just the way they are. They are meant to be light-hearted romps through fields of green, they are meant to be flights through skies of blue with your favorite color Yoshi, they are meant for you to watch as you fall to your doom after mistiming that jump.. er..
They are meant for fun.
I personally wouldn't mind for more plot, but I am content with the current state of things. I would be ecstatic for more playable Toad too..
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This is really disappointing for me. I was impressed by Super Mario Galaxy's plot as compared to the other "main series" Mario games, but not as a stand-alone story. And now I hear SMG2 will have even less of a story?
I'll be hoping and praying that Miyamoto changes his mind. Or that Koizumi gets to sneak more story elements in.
...Heck, do we have any information on the game's story at all? I could be able to tolerate it, even if it's hyper-simple, if it's something other than saving Peach, however likely that may be.
EDIT: Oh, and Rosalina FT absolute W.
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Well her board in the original Mario Party was a birthday cake. And she did invite Mario over for cake at the beginning of SM64.
Liking cake is one thing, and she's clearly not a genius as well, but she's never been portrayed as the stereotypical glutton dumb enough to be lured into a trap with food on a string or something. But hey, he said that was just a speculative idea.
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I think Miyamoto just doesn't give two flying turds about his characters are portrayed.
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Exclusive leaked storyboard for the opening sequence of Galaxy 2:
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmoonside.kontek.net%2Fdrawn%2Fgalaxy2.jpg&hash=982a5ca3258a2044a36cf2435d00a081)
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Thank you.
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Why is Peach licking her lips in a suggestive manner? Otherise, that's one sure contender for Image of the Year.
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BECAUSE SHE SEES CAKE
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I had established that, but the way in which she initially reacted looked less like she wanted cake, and more like she wanted co... No, I cannot bring myself to say it. Never mind.
HAPPY 10,000TH POST, CHUP! :'D
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:O
At Chup's 10000th post, and Weegee's bad joke.
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I think this pretty much sums up why Mario is to Miyamoto as Star Wars is to George Lucas. They should be kept as far away from their creators as possible because those guys are nuts and just want to mess stuff up.
Chup has won this topic. Because I agree with him, and I IS EPIC WIN LOL. ... In all seriousness, however, Mario needs to get a better story, I mean, honestly, here's how I imagine Galaxy 2's story:
1.Bowser kidnaps Peach.
2.Mario gets Luigi to join him.
3.Mario finds a Yoshi that tells them about a Yoshroom that gives Yoshis special abilitys.
4.Bowser Jr. fights Mario.
5.Mario fights random minions sent by Bowser.
6.See above.
7.Mario fights Bowser Jr. again.
8.The last four things reapeat two more times.
9.Mario FINALLY reaches Bowser's Castle.
10.Mario PWNS Bowser after a battle.
11. Giygas appears and owns Mario. Mario saves Peach.
12. Insert crappier sequel here.
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It's a real shame that Miyamoto favors the kind of canned and packaged games that we see too much of today as opposed to a truly innovative and engaging storyline, especially for (arguably, I guess) Nintendo's flagship franchise. I guess he figured that the Wii's technological leaps can make up for a poor plotline.
P.S. - My 100th post bows to Chupperson's 10,000th
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I also don't care for storylines in a game. I always skip the cutscenes games and go straight to the game.
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I also don't care for storylines in a game. I always skip the cutscenes games and go straight to the game. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Disorder)
FIXED
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I also don't care for storylines in a game. I always skip the cutscenes games and go straight to the game.
Same deal with me. I also get annoyed when new games in a franchise derail too much from it's predecessors like adding a new... now where was I going with this?
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If you ask me, it really is sad the Miyamoto feels like that... I personally thought that Galaxy hit the sweet spot with it's story. A small story to get the game moving, and then having Rosalina's elaborate backstory.
I don't mind there being less of a story in the platformers (I'd like to have elaborate stories though...) because we do get that in the RPGs, but something as dumb and un-imaginative as Peach getting lured into a trap with cake?! No. Just no.
The Mario series introduced story-lines into video gaming, it shouldn't stop just because the creator doesn't care enough to make a nice story.
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I would argue that Miyamoto doesn't "not care enough" to develop a plot; he simply doesn't want the accessible gameplay to be complicated by an intricate storyline. As stupid and contrived the idea of Peach being lured into Bowser's clutches by a slice of cake may be, the concept has served the series well. A Mario platformer without any Peach-napping is like an episode of Batman without Robin stating, "holy <insert noun here>, Batman!".
And that just can't be.
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Well, I agree on the Robin thing!
But I'm fine with Peach-napping! It just wouldn't be right without it! But that doesn't mean we need to change Peach's character just to do so. Sure, Peach was clueless in Sunshine, but if her voice actor changed her tone of voice into a different confused one, she wouldn't have been clueless at all even with the exact same line! (Saying "I'm your mama?" as in, "What are you talking about?") And I certainly don't see her as a glutton, rather a giving and kind person.
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A Mario platformer without any Peach-napping is like an episode of Batman without Robin stating, "holy <insert noun here>, Batman!".
I personally disagree with this statement so much that if I disagreed any more, it would probably transcend the space-time continuum. But I do see your point.
Or, I'd probably be content with something that involves Peach-napping, but also a bunch of other stuff. Sort of like what I did in my Super Mario World ROM hack series - Bowser kidnaps Peach, but there's also a lot of mystery and explaining about how he found his new hideout, and the power sources he found at the islands, and how the natives called for help, and about the battle between the natives and their enemies, and the world-destroying explosive inside a tiny gem...
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Why does it feel like all of the great masterminds of the 80's and 90's are loosing their minds?
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I dunno about loosing them, but definitely they are losing them.
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A person carved out of tree stumps in the trailer? What on earth are they talking about?
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I think that's a mangled reference to the little dude made out of wood in what I bet $50 will be called the Limber Lumber Galaxy.
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You owe us each fifty if it's called the Limber Timber Galaxy, though.
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Curses, you're right! Then again, I guess we could just all end up with the Wild Woody Galaxy, but something tells me that's a less than likely option.
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The Great Tree Galaxy
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Prefect Plank Galaxy?
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Silver Metaknight is the kind of person that makes games crappy.
You skip cutscenes and everything to get right to the game. They were put in there for a reason. You probably beat the game a bit faster than me because you skipped everything.
I dunno, I just don't understand it. When games have any cinematic element, I play it as if I'm showing off a tech demo or something.
Mario Galaxy- bust out some cool moves, let the viewers notice the beautiful detail and music in the game by taking it slow, not "GOTTA GET THERE!! BEAT THE GAME... MARIO IS PLATFORM GO TO A TO B!!! THATS ALL YOU DO AND SHOULD EVER DO IN A MARIO GAME YAY MARIO" like Meta Knight apparently does. Also, I don't display the pointer on-screen during opening cutscenes to galaxies and I never skip those, either. I also don't point the remote at the screen during flying sequences unless there are star bits that spring up. The only time I have the pointer on-screen during a planetoid transfer is if I have the mushroom that makes your life go to 6, or my life is less than 3...reason being, the life bar doesn't go away in that case, but, when you point the pointer over your life bar, it darkens and gets translucent. During flying sequences when I'm in basically no control of Mario, I don't want any HUD to be visible and obscure the view, so I point it there and fade my life bar out until I land again.
Grand Theft Auto IV- I hate when people just run and gun no matter what they're doing and then they're like "AWWWW UUUGH WHY WONT NIKO GET UP AND RUN!??!?!!" That's the reason people complain about why GTA should not exist and call it a "murder simulator." Also, they have to steal a car as soon as they get out of my apartment, floor it till they crash, chuckle, then just shoot people on the sidewalk and die...oh yeah, and repeat. When I play, I use all the cinematic camera types, I use the very nice cover system for gunfights, I drive slow so I can listen to all the in-car dialogue, and I watch every single cutscene, even if I've seen it before. Also, when everything is chill, I tend to drive legit, not like a crazed killer screaming, "NOBO-DEE F***S WITH MY FAM-UH-LEE. AHM COMMING ROMAN!!!!" <--Eastern Europe dialect
Forza 2- I drive super-legit and tend to be cinematic. Everyone else just floors it, slams on the brakes, and slides into a wall at about 120MPH, then chuckles about it. They see the car smoking, pulling to one side or the other, half the car is crushed in and the engine is cutting out and making no power....yet they still are puzzled and say "DURR.... IS YOUR CONTROLLER BROKE NAH OH WAIT... IS THE CAR ACTUALLY MESSED UP OR IS THAT JUST FOR SHOW???"
Mario Golf games- Yeah, this might be a bit quirky, but I always hold start after I hit the ball so the view isn't cluttered with HUD telling me conditions and how my ball's doing when I'm watching what it's doing. I might let go of it after it lands to see the distance, but that's all. Also, you could hide the HUD for yourself and COMs on Mario Golf, but you can't for COMs anymore on Toadstool Tour... what the crap? (Also, the taunts on TT are way worse than Mario Golf's good ones....but I'm already digressing too much... that'll be for another time).
I could go on and on...
Basically, judging from that, Galaxy 2 better have good cinematics and at least SOME story on par with Galaxy.... at LEAST. I am absolutely FLOORED by ANYONE who says that Galaxy had "too much story" or "too deep of a storyline" which is what half of IGN thinks for some *crazy* reason... maybe it's all the "casual" players saying that crap.
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The cutscenes in Mario Galaxy are actually very good, I just skip the boring cutscenes such as the ones found in Final Fantasy.
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Also, I don't display the pointer on-screen during opening cutscenes to galaxies and I never skip those, either. I also don't point the remote at the screen during flying sequences unless there are star bits that spring up.
So they wouldn't have to remove it in galaxies without it. Laziness, simple.
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What?
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So they wouldn't have to remove it in galaxies without it.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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The cutscenes in Mario Galaxy are actually very good, I just skip the boring cutscenes such as the ones found in Final Fantasy.
Gotcha.
Also, Luigalaxy, wth are you talking about?
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Something about the star-pointer being used/not used in certain galaxies...?
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He was stating that Nintendo couldn't be bothered to remove the pointer from levels in which it wouldn't be necessary, i.e. those without Pull Stars and the like.
On that note, who else agrees that the Star Bit-shooting mechanic is useless? Aside from being wasteful, it's only useful against enemies which aren't difficult anyway. Similarly, those Luma-feeding sequences could have been automated.
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I don't really consider it wasteful because there's tons of Star Bits anyway. Regardless, I never really shot things anyway because I was making a subconscious effort to make the game a little harder.
Also, the pointer's necessary in all levels! Well, at least it's usable. And picking and choosing when it would appear would be fairly confusing.
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Suppose you're right about the pointer. Aside from collecting Star Bits, Pull Stars and cannons alone would make it necessary in most levels. Since Nintendo is undoubtedly intently reading this thread and catering to our demands as we type, I'd might as well list some other changes I'd like to see implemented in SMG2:
-Remove Star Bits altogether.
-Bring back 100-Coin stars.
-Replace Silver Stars with red coins.
-Stimulate the labor market through excessive job cuts.
-Give the characters dialogue which is less childish (http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/748588/9/381.jpg).
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-PROFIT!!!
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-Remove Star Bits altogether.
-Bring back 100-Coin stars.
-Replace Silver Stars with red coins.
-Give the characters dialogue which is less childish (http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/748588/9/381.jpg).
I agree 5200%.
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-Remove Star Bits altogether. -- I wouldn't care either way.
-Bring back 100-Coin stars. -- HECK NO. Purple coins allow for much more interesting, specific, and difficult challenges. It also frees up the designers wtih better control of where and when you can get health.
-Replace Silver Stars with red coins. -- 5 is better. 8 is overkill.
-Give the characters dialogue which is less childish (http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/748588/9/381.jpg). -- How are bunny rabbits supposed to talk?
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-PROFIT!!! -- Someday you'll learn that adding to this every list is not necessary.
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Eh, sure, keep the purples, but also bring back the 100 coin stars just so we have some more stars to work for. Maybe get rid of the "collect 5 silver stars to make a star" thing because that's just annoying. I'd rather try and find 100 coins (which encourages more exploration) than "find 5 silver stars" that are all typically within viewing distance of each other.
If they pull another 120-121 star thing... then man, I dunno. If they can creatively integrate at least 150 stars without plastering the extra 30 on as "find and retrieve" type objectives, that'd be cool. Hell, if it was 200 stars, I'd probably start crying.
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Change what they will, keep what they will... all I ask is that there be a different number of stars than 120! How the heck did that become the magic number, anyway?
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How are bunny rabbits supposed to talk?
It was the only example of dialogue I could find at the time. The worst thing is how nouns are actually replaced by pictures within the text, as exemplified by lines such as, "Here's the (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giantbomb.com%2Fuploads%2F2%2F27528%2F1049122-star__mario_kart_double_dash____tiny.jpg&hash=3ecc2b81ea358b3ea487357230e52b77) I found, Mario!"
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I know. Color coding the text would have been enough.. "We got away from Bowser and then we got lost with Luigi.."
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Meh, if they're going to stick with speech bubbles instead of voice acting, they might as well take full advantage of the medium.
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I'm torn on how to feel about coloring vital words in speech bubbles. One part of me thinks it's too leading but the other part says, "eh, doesn't matter."
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I prefer 100% monocolored text.
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Agreed with Chup. Pictures and coloured text gives the game a more jeuvenile feel than its predecessors, which really isn't necessary.
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Well, it is more juvenile... or at least more casual--in presentation, at least.
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In terms of childishness, the storybook was definitely the game's worst element. Sure, they were going for a "bedtime story" vibe, but sitting through it is downright emberassing:
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Change what they will, keep what they will... all I ask is that there be a different number of stars than 120! How the heck did that become the magic number, anyway?
Gee when are Goombas the basic Mario enemy.
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Yes, Galaxy's story was so embarrassing compared to all the badass plots in the previous (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fmwelch12%2FWalkingMario.gif&hash=42f7c050acc560082c7318121be48d75) games.
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I was referring specifically to Rosalina's storybook with that comment, but Galaxy as a whole really exchanged much of the series' bizarre quirkiness in exchange for ridiculous cuteness, as seen in the Lumas and the game's lack of visually-intimidating bosses. As for the dialogue, I wonder if Nintendo had received complaints over the fact that 64 and Sunshine used words over five letters long in their speech bubbles.
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What are all these visually-intimidating bosses?
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Falex.losego.com%2Fsm64%2Fimages%2Fbob-omb.jpg&hash=59f902d5f554cdd32f447889400fa661)
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.supermariogames.biz%2Fpics%2Fgooper-blooper.jpg&hash=ddb1f68c9847126289e8088c74da17cc)
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mariowiki.com%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fba%2FLethal_lava.JPG&hash=fec4e7615156e08cf0f3676b26a64671)
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mariowiki.com%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fe%2Fe8%2FPeteySluggers.png%2F215px-PeteySluggers.png&hash=409580c695bf14ecb8c0b25d4dd683b2)
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamehiker.com%2Fwiki%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2Fc%2Fce%2FPiantissimo.jpg%2F100px-Piantissimo.jpg&hash=ce7058df41d5053bd015a286ac41ccc0)
Oh yeah those guys were terrifying.
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Perhaps I worded that incorrectly. The point is, at least Gooper Blooper and those floating hands with eyeballs inside the pyramid didn't look downright huggable. I'd rather have irritable, obtusely-shaped townspeople roaming about than plush star-babies that resemble something out of Boohbah:
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2FZ0oPMvj9qknFJJ6sKs784DzapLTBMz662p08DKgH0N6--9i-dhbHxsA2NvzNmhvB9J7oaDXW95WQWPA3YVhO06vVMS48UQQR%2Fboohbah.jpg&hash=20d4755c012803f7207e305b65fe7889)
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That picture seemed to reference the obtusely-shaped townspeople more than the plush star-babies.
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Ah begs to differ, suh:
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffaqsmedia.ign.com%2Ffaqs%2Fimage%2Farticle%2F837%2F837418%2Fluma.jpeg&hash=2be6993f8546678f497be419b44162ad)(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comparestoreprices.co.uk%2Fimages%2Funbranded%2Fd%2Funbranded-dancing-boohbah-soft-toy.jpg&hash=f656c0cc67e16d471404b21388003043)(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Fnintendo.joystiq.com%2Fmedia%2F2008%2F08%2Fpianta_kc_082908.png&hash=d6a67f7c8d9782870b806337254e7e61)
EDIT: OH GOD THEY ALL LOOK VAGUELY ALIKE
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I'm not seeing the connection. Boohbahs are scary, Lumas are cute, Piantas are stupid.
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Galaxy's bosses weren't so awful. Bouldergeist was a big hit, no? King Kaliente? That huge skeleton fish??? I mean, none of them compare to Super Mario Sunshine's King Boo... but he was more frightening like, "so this is the future of Mario, eh..."
Also, I only find it normal for a Mario game to be inhabited by star-like creatures. Stars have always been huge in the series, ever since that one RPG everyone loves so freaking much...
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I don't dislike the Lumas themelves as much as I do their juvenile demeanor. Sure, they're meant to be cute and innocent, but I personally found it almost embarrassing to converse with them, as doing so is like tuning in to an episode of Barney.
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You've got to be joking, right? You've got to be joking.
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You click on my profile, look my avatar dead in the eye, and tell me: Does that look like a "joking" face to you?
Fixed.
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Good thing we use the TRUE FORUM where there are no avatars.
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I'm probably the biggest advocate for more story in Mario, character development within the game, and, dare I say, a slightly "darker" Mario... NOT emo Mario, but darker Mario... e.g. Mario in Subspace Emissary, Mario in Strikers Charged, but Weegee...
...you've gone off the deep end.
Even with how I feel about "childish" stuff in Mario games, I was not embarrassed by the Lumas at all. They're there.... aaaand they're there, what can you say? Piantas are basically dumber than Lumas.
On another note, I still don't understand why people, almost 2 years after the game's release, are still complaining about Rosalina's "bedtime" story....you know... the one that was (and still is) completely optional. I remember everyone saying "I will CmPLETLEY AVOID THIS ON THE GROUNDS THAT MARIO SHULD HAVE NO STORY OR THAT IT IS ST00PID" but then you will still hear complaints about how childish it was.
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If you didn't cry at Rosalina's storybook, you have no soul.
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My bottom line is that they could've handled the storybook and Luma elements more credibly for Mario standards. Not that there's much to remedy it now, but yeah.
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Credibility is just about the last thing on the list for games like Mario in the first place...
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I'm not seeing the connection. Boohbahs are scary, Lumas are cute, Piantas are stupid.
Don Pianta would like to have a word with you. Down at the port.
Galaxy's bosses weren't so awful. Bouldergeist was a big hit, no? King Kaliente? That huge skeleton fish??? I mean, none of them compare to Super Mario Sunshine's King Boo... but he was more frightening like, "so this is the future of Mario, eh..."
What? You mean always trying something new as opposed to sticking to one formula? That's the reason I love this series. I never know what to expect out of the games he stars in. Sunshine did a spectacular job fleshing out his universe beyond simple kingdoms, or the same old enemies, and while he was indeed limited in his moveset, the reliance on FLUDD made the game a fun challenge, or at the very least not ball-busting hard like SMB2J.
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That's the reason I love this series. I never know what to expect out of the games he stars in.
With the exception of SMG2...?
Oh, and I loved the prevalence of (in most cases, fairly imposing) bosses in SMG.
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Super Mario Galaxy 2 gets a free pass because the first one is probably the greatest Mario game I've ever played.
On a similar note, it amazes me how many people are BAWWWing that Nintendo actually went ahead and produced a sequel to Galaxy and will be releasing it on the very same console. Really now, after a decade of fans crying and whining for more platformers or sequels to the current gen entries, we finally get one and all people can say is "rehashed stages means it'll suck".
Some people are just unpleasable.
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Especially because it doesn't even have rehashed stages, as best as I understand it. Last time I checked, Wikipedia was refusing to change it because they were just taking Kotaku's (probably mistranslated) generalization at face value, but I'm pretty sure that in a more detailed liveblog of the Miyamoto conference, what he said was was that the 5-10% of "reused" stages are stuff that they wanted to use in the first Galaxy but couldn't, and then the other 90-95% is totally new -- but 100% of the game is stuff we haven't seen before.
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I thought it was kind of the other way around... (as in, most of the game is stuff they didn't get to use in the first one and the rest is just old "themes" with a new layout).
Hey, I don't think the game won't be fun--I just think I'll have to get used to it being one of the first Mario games I've ever played that is fairly predictable.
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Either way, it'll be fun and be another epic game.
Also, with Galaxy being the best thing since 3D sliced bread (aka. Mario 64), it's an epic milestone for Nintendo to be breaking their trend of "One Mario adventure/platform per console generation." I'm glad that they're doing it with a very good game. 3 would be pushing it if they were to do the Galaxy theme again, so after this one we should give them time to let them think on a new Mario game for the next console.
However, they'll have 3-4 years before the next wave of consoles will probably be coming out, so they should have plenty of time to have another Mario game ready when the console launches or at least within 6 months of the console launching. Actually, I think that in this current age, releasing an epic system with an equally epic game would kinda be a sensory overload and the game would soon be overlooked, so I say release the next Nintendo console, then have the Mario game come out within 6 months of it launching so everyone can get a feel for how awesome the next console is first. Right as they're coming off that high, the next Mario will launch and punch them right in the face and it'll be the best bloody nose they'll ever have.
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I'm probably the biggest advocate for more story in Mario, character development within the game, and, dare I say, a slightly "darker" Mario...
I thought I was. Well! Good to see someone else who shares these opinions. I pretty much agree with that entire post (what you said about the Lumas and the Storybook).
I'm ecstatic about Galaxy 2, with my only real concerns being the story (obviously) and Yoshi (I never really liked him). The style and environment Super Mario Galaxy 1 created is really fun and expandable; there are endless possibilities. They could probably make five Mario Galaxies before I'd even begin to get tired of it.
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Well, I hope they can at least sneak something in, like Galaxy, or more than Galaxy.
However, if it's the same story caliber as New Super Mario Bros..... I'm gonna freak out. Not that I'm bashing NSMB because its storyline wasn't deep, nah, a simple Mario platformer kinda shouldn't be (it was just a comparison)... but what I'm saying is both Galaxies are/will be the pinnacle of the Wii and are/will be epic, so the storyline must be equally epic to keep everything in balance. If the game is "Ah, crap, Bowser Jr. jacked the Princess" then there's cutscenes in the galaxy select screen showing him dragging her to the next hideout (a la NSMB)... and that's it, yes, I'm gonna trip.
"Help!"
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If there is to be no character development or significant continunity in the Mario games, fine.
But what gets me is when you have games like Partners in Time, in which the plot has to basically contort itself in wild and strange ways precisely to avoid the former.
So in any other RPG, traveling back in time to encounter a younger version of the protagonist would reveal all sorts of new and interesting information about his background, upbringing, etc. But not in Partners in Time! Baby Mario, Baby Peach, and Baby Luigi are just sort of... there. Sitting there like props in the Mushroom Kingdom, forever and ever and ever.
I remember in this annotated Calvin and Hobbes treasury, Bill Watterson mentioned how he regretted giving Calvin an extended family, because it became awkward for him to have uncles and aunts who couldn't refer to Calvin's parents by their first names, and keeping Calvin's parents nameless was one of Watterson's most cherished rules of the C&H universe. As the Mario series gets more epic due to new technology, and as the Mario RPG series continues to thrive, Miyamito's "no story" rules become very difficult to enforce in practice.
Imposing no plot on a game that needs one to remain coherent can be enormously counter-productive, if the intent is to keep the franchise dynamic and interesting. There's a reason why we'll never see "Space Invaders Tennis," for instance.
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I just realized how bizarrely ironic it is that SMG2 will apparently not have a decent plot, while Mario Power Tennis's introduction weaved a complicated backstory with virtually no dialogue.
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I guess that's what happens when development teams that aren't headed by Miyamoto make a Mario game. Then again, sometimes it doesn't work out so well (see Hudson's treatment of the Mario series in Mario Party for instance).
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I just realized that JJ posted for the first time since like forever.
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Yes, as did I (with the appropriate level of amazement), but I didn't say anything because I figured he'd posted something about it on the appropriate thread.
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21 posts in nearly a decade. I'm internally debating whether that's dismal or impressive.
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(see Hudson's treatment of the Mario series in Mario Party for instance).
I thought they did ok the first 4 or 5 times. They made good use of characters such as Lakitu fishing for items from other players or Magikoopa mixing up the items.
At least it's not like the Sonic series, where a character is introduced once, then never seen again.
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That only happens to the good characters. Everyone else gets shoehorned into every game at the expense of coherence. Although I do like Blaze.
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What's wrong with the Mario Party games?
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You know, I don't think that the Mario games need THAT much story. I think the Zelda games do, (get teh spiritual stonez, save hyrule, save zelda, OMG THAT IS SUCH A GREAT PLOT) because they're adventure games, and adventure games generally tend to have more story than most platformers, and lots of story wouldn't work so well in Mario's happy-go-lucky universe anyway.
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Holy crap, I know it's been said, but friggin' JJ. I remember him doing mailbags then he fell off the face of the earth.
Anyway, coolkid, I'd have to disagree. Mario is an adventure/platformer. It should have some story because we've been treated to almost zero story forever. Galaxy was good at being discreet about it; now, they should flesh it out a bit more and start intertwining a lot of Mario games.
I absolutely *love* shoutouts and references to past games.
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I'm thinking that the more Mario games that are made, the more important a plot will be. I mean, Mario games are always fun and generally innovative, but the fact of the matter is that still boils down to "run, jump, A-to-B, get [number] [something--probably stars] to [repeat], fight Bowser". Sometimes a plot needs to be there if only because we need to be distracted from the fact that's it's still pretty much the same gameplay setup as last time.
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(Aside from the fact that the levels are all different.)
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same gameplay setup
And besides, we still get lava level, desert level, ice level, grass level... I'm not complaining, I'm just saying.
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Point being, the different levels will help distract you from noticing(?) it's the same gameplay setup, too. I guarantee it.
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Well, I suppose you're right... it's worked so far! I guess it's the ever-present fact that this is the first "sequel sequel" the Mario series has really had since SMB2J that makes me worried about too much familiarity.