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Author Topic: That Whole "Metroid Prime (Trilogy) is the Citizen Kane of Videogames" Thing  (Read 14825 times)

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« on: October 09, 2009, 07:00:11 PM »
A couple links concerning something you've probably heard about:

http://www.gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=99855
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8765863
http://www.destructoid.com/why-comparing-metroid-prime-to-citizen-kane-is-ludicrous-151465.phtml

Well, it seems like we've got a couple camps here: People who think MP is the Citizen Kane of games, people who don't, people who think it's irrelevant, and people who think the comparison is just plain unneeded and innacurate. Where do you stand? And, if you do think games "need" or "have" "a Citizen Kane", what is it?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2009, 07:58:27 PM »
If anything, that title probably belongs to Super Mario Bros.: Much as Citizen Kane revolutionized filmmaking with Welles' groundbreaking techniques, SMB completed the Atari 2600's concept of bringing video games into the home, singlehandedly revitalized the gaming industry after the video game crash of 1983, and became the benchmark against which all releases were compared until the dawn of 3D gaming.
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Forest Guy

  • Anything else?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2009, 09:15:49 PM »
I stand on the ground that the comparison itself is unneeded and was a stupid idea. I think metroid Prime Trilogy is one of the great games to come out in a long time, but the comparison was just plain silly.
= = = = = = =
Agender, curry fan, Top 10 lister, indie dev, gym hitter, musician, et al.

« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 11:36:55 PM »
He said that the silliest sentence you'll ever read is "In the same way that Citizen Kane... [blah blah, comparison] ...Metroid Prime uses all of its technology to recreate the experience of a woman abandoned on an alien world inhabited by the ghosts of its prelapsarian inhabitants". I disagree that it's because it ignores the historical and artistic weight. It's because the premise of being on an alien world inhabited by ghosts of Chozos sounds stupid when taken out of context. Doesn't sound like a storyline worthy of a Newbury Medal. Recreate the experience of a woman lost on some hostile world, oh boy. While it is a great game and I liked the wealth of history that Samus learned about her world along the way, you just can't describe Metroid Prime's setting like that and expect it to hold a candle to the typical Oscar-winner "troubled man looks inside himself and finds the inner strength he had all along, helping him achieve the American Dream". You'd be better off with... heck, what it says on the top of Watership Down: "The timeless classic novel of exile, courage and survival." Just throw in adjectives about Samus's experience, then it'd stand better ground in comparison.

I don't like thinking about what games stand out as revolutionary and worthy of recognition in other fields. Mainly because of the same reason I don't like watching old films - great for their time, but things have moved on, old techniques improved on, it's all stuff we've seen before. Plus, having been a Nintendo fan my whole life, there's inevitably a lot of other games worthy of mention that I never played or heard of, so I wouldn't feel "qualified". That said, I still like the idea of putting Shadow of the Colossus out there as a contender, just for being so drastically different from anything else at the time and being beautiful and straightforward despite running on hardware that can barely keep up with what's demanded.

In retrospect Metroid Prime's not a game I'd play again soon, it just seems too "involved". Epic and "everybody must play this"-worthy, yes. But in the same vein as Chrono Trigger, it's something I'll play once or twice before putting it down forever or waiting a few years for all the memories to fade. Besides, I'm busy playing a forgotten SNES game called Claymates. Hands up for anyone who recognizes the title (no, I'm not talking about the Clay Aiken fanclub). It's... not perfect by a long shot, and at first glance it looks very kiddy, but it's quirky and fun enough that something compels me to keep playing it. Man, I should have dumped Clayfighter like a lead balloon, Claymates was a lot more fun.

You can't judge a game like a movie, fair and simple. It's more about entertainment (and like in any medium, personal experiences. I failed in enough humorous ways early on in "Okami" to believe that point). I think I can see why there's a preference for shorter simpler games. While there's also the pleasure of overcoming tough challenges and powerful storylines, something simple can be just as enjoyable. Try the pack-in episode of Knytt Stories (free PC game) or your favorite addictive Flash game of choice.

I just realized another reason why that comparison sentence is silly. In that sentence (in the part I omitted), Citizen Kane is mentioned with describing the man's character. The same wasn't given to Samus, so it's an unfair comparison. And what's up with "prelapsarian"? Who's going to know that word? Just call them sentient birds.

*looks up word* "Of or relating to the period before the fall of Adam and Eve."
...Like I said, you should have called them frickin' birds.
You didn't say wot wot.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2009, 04:59:45 AM »
"Prelapsarian" sounds fancy tho.

Anyway, I feel that comparisons like these are useless. A game is a game and a movie is a movie, and I think the only way this industry will ever come into its own is if we stop trying to compare them. You don't see any book people touting any books as the Citizen Kane of Books, do you? Likewise, there are no Citizens Kane of music, etc. etc. Really, comparing anything to Citizen Kane only makes you look like a pretentious dweeb who has probably never actually seen Citizen Kane. It also cheapens both works you are comparing, turning Citizen Kane into nothing more than a byword for "good movie".

A better comparison would be to Half-Life: It's a story told masterfully through events instead of exposition. The two games have different flows, but still achieve the goal of putting the player into the story instead of just have the player watch the story unfold from a distance.
every

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 10:35:57 AM »
Rosebud was his sled.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 10:49:22 AM »
Rosebud was his sled.
Snape kills Trinity with Rosebud!
You didn't say wot wot.

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 10:55:49 AM »
I've never even seen Citizen Kane, but I know thanks to the likes of Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Charles Schultz.

Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 04:12:09 PM »
Tyler Durden and Edward Norton are the same person and water kills the aliens from Signs!!
every

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 04:37:30 PM »
If it isn't human, it'll hurt Mario if he touches it. This also goes for Pianta's, Noki's and Robots.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 07:37:12 PM »
I'd copy+paste that header they put on spoiler-related pages on Uncyclopedia, but my heart just isn't in it.

Anyway, back to the topic, I'll skip the seemingly obligatory extended essay on why Metroid Prime (Trilogy? The video was footage from it, but all the guy explicitly mentioned was the original. Maybe he's one of those guys who considers all three one extended, LotR-esque saga) is, isn't, or doesn't need to be the CK of VGs and just say this: Is it a great game? Yes, yes, yes. Was it at all that revolutionary? Not incredibly, no, or at least not to the level that a Kane Komparison would imply.

Also, back off the topic: Midna goes back to normal at the end of Twilight Princess and she's hot.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 07:45:25 PM »
Snape kills Dumbledore, Darth Vader is Luke's father, and Metroid, whose name is actually Samus, is a girl.

Although it's been fairly well established that MP isn't the Citizen Kane of video games, would anyone here recommend it? I'll be enduring a veritable gaming famine in the time between the releases of NSMBW and Pokemon HG/SS, so Trilogy could be worth considering.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 07:48:53 PM by Weegee »
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ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 07:47:18 PM »
Wait, are you saying you haven't played Metroid Prime?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 08:00:10 PM »
It's a great game. Go for it. Hopefully the Wii controls will make controlling Samus more bearable, as it's not easy to fight a boss in the original GameCube game when you can't strafe. But as I never got used to the Wii controls in MP3, I wouldn't benefit at all from the trilogy. Couldn't get anywhere in the second game anyway due to that stupid dark world (or should I say purple world).
You didn't say wot wot.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 08:03:36 PM »
I've bought and beaten all three, so I'm not really planning on getting the Trilogy, however tempting its bells and whistles may be.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 10:11:26 PM »
Snape kills Dumbledore

I am so surprised Harry didn't do the cliche "Nooooooooooooo" thing when Dumbledore was getting killed. He just stood there, with silence.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 10:30:40 PM »
Great galloping Goombas there were a lot of spoilers just said.

However commonly known or old a spoiler may be, it's never cool to just write them for no reason because someone mentioned a different spoiler. Why? It happens every time, it's not funny, it's old, unoriginal, and just a lame thing to do.

Especially you, Brian: Twilight Princess is current gen!

« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 11:09:03 PM »
Gandalf comes back in The Two Towers. But you already knew that.
You didn't say wot wot.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2009, 06:53:55 AM »
I didn't know the "gen" mattered, but TP was technically a GCN game.

Anyway, I wonder if this argument makes any more sense reversed: Is Citizen Kane the Metroid Prime of movies?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 04:38:30 PM »
No to both your sentences.
every

« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2009, 04:54:13 PM »
Wait, are you saying you haven't played Metroid Prime?

Indeed. Nor have I ever played a single Final Fantasy title or seen any LOTR movies for that matter. Gimme your worst, TMK.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 05:15:06 PM »
I've not played the Prime series or FF, either.  I have at least seen LotR.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2009, 05:20:58 PM »
I watched about ten minutes of LOTR 1 and got bored, and I've only played FFTA, FFTA2, and like an hour of FF7.
every

« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2009, 05:52:29 PM »
I'm not going to make fun of a guy who can't put on his own socks for not having played certain famous games.

« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2009, 05:58:32 PM »
I can, but just not in the morning. Seriously.

The nerve of some people.
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Forest Guy

  • Anything else?
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2009, 07:17:13 PM »
Let's just leave it at this...

Metroid Prime / Citizen Kane comparison is stupid.

Citizen Kane is a great movie.

Metroid Prime is a great trilogy that you should play if you haven't yet.

Lord of the Rings is an awesome trilogy that you should see if you haven't yet.

Spoiler parades aren't cool.
= = = = = = =
Agender, curry fan, Top 10 lister, indie dev, gym hitter, musician, et al.

« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2009, 07:25:02 PM »
Lizard Dude is the Citizen Kane of Fungi Forums.

« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2009, 07:30:37 PM »
Where's Ped Xing when you need him?
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Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 09:17:56 PM »
Forget watching them, why the heck haven't you fools read LotR yet?
That was a joke.

« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 09:29:38 PM »
Because the books are long, dull and monotonous.

Seriously, LotR bores me but I'd rather watch the condensed 3 hour movie over the archaic fantasy novel that has aged horribly.
As a game that requires six friends, an HDTV, and skill, I can see why the majority of TMK is going to hate on it hard.

« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2009, 09:33:35 PM »
Because books are long, dull and monotonous.


FIXED
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Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2009, 10:15:55 PM »
Granted, it isn't the juiciest of novels, but "aged horribly"? Does that phrase even apply to books?
That was a joke.

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2009, 10:38:22 PM »
In the sense that a writer may have used copious amounts of terms that today have radically different meanings from when they were written (i.e. Tolkien using "[bundle of sticks]got" to mean "bundle of sticks") or that have fallen out of use completely, yes. Same thing for ancient non-English works that definitely lose something in translation. The meaning is still there and possibly still relevant, but it's difficult to discern when languages have changed so much, which is where an argument that it's "aged horribly" could be made.

You also have books that might've been relevant in 17th-century England or something but are completely irrelevant today.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2009, 10:43:04 PM »
Yeah, what WR said--If the syntax is old-fashioned, yes, but with the passage of time, every book is eventually, inherently guilty of that, so the argument doesn't hold much water. Nevertheless, I don't really like reading many old books for that reason.

Also, I think Forest Guy just said everything that needs to be said here.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2009, 11:51:54 PM »
Forget watching them, why the heck haven't you fools read LotR yet?

I managed to read all of the Hobbit. If that counts.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2009, 11:53:10 PM »
If reading a single novel is counted as a feat these days, I'm going to be really sad.
That was a joke.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 07:02:02 AM »
It may be regrettable that the inclination is, but having the time to certainly is a feat.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2009, 10:22:46 AM »
Because the books are long, dull and monotonous.

"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2009, 03:16:10 PM »
Who is that? The spirit in the mirror's white cousin?
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2009, 03:36:23 PM »
Looks like the bad guy from Ghostbusterz II.
every

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2009, 05:06:14 PM »
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2009, 09:06:31 PM »
I'd say it's Syndrome trying out for the Magic Mirror.



Kind of looks like Dudley or one of the other goons from Harry Potter.
You didn't say wot wot.

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2009, 10:16:17 PM »
I didn't even bother with the Incredibles. Now Up was great, but Pixar NEEDS to stay away from humans.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2009, 11:03:51 PM »
What the heck? You should really stop talking when you have no clue what you're talking about.
That was a joke.

« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2009, 04:54:04 AM »
If TV_Themes has a legitimate reason for hating how Pixar does humans, I'd like to hear it. Sure the humans in the first Toy Story looked a little embarrassing, but they've improved since then. They're supposed to look exaggerated, not only to avoid going up against the uncanny valley but also to throw in personality.

And yet it's difficult for CGI humans to look believable and non-cringe-worthy when it comes to certain things like romantic relationships or the simple act of crying. Which the Incredibles didn't do half-bad on either. It was probably incredible that they managed to do the film at all (I remember the artists were complaining at first that the film contained all sorts of effects that were very hard to do right. Considering how realistic and refined Ratatouille looked, I wonder if Ratatouille was any harder to do).

Actually, I can't think of a single film where a CGI human cries and has convincing tears. Oh wait, Ratatouille (okay, so the tears well up in the eyes, but still). Nevermind.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 04:56:34 AM by penguinwizard »
You didn't say wot wot.

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2009, 09:58:27 AM »
Why I don't like humans in Pixar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD2hu56MUNM
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2009, 10:54:31 AM »
Admit it, you're just jealous because your diapers weren't molded hard plastic.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2009, 12:00:11 PM »
Okay what. You're using a 21-year-old example of primitive CG as a reason you don't want to see modern, well-rendered CG? You totally fail at thinking. Forever. Die now.
That was a joke.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2009, 01:34:18 PM »
Tv_Themes is Francis, is all. Don't be hatin' just cos he be hatin'.
every

« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2009, 01:56:38 PM »
That is probably the sexiest baby I've ever laid eyes upon. The neck wrinkles and emaciated limbs just scream youth.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2009, 02:29:31 PM »
Man, that's an ugly baby. Maybe I'll admit the babies need a little work in the films (case in point: Jack-Jack):


But in general the humans look quite good. How can you say no to this:
You didn't say wot wot.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2009, 02:46:02 PM »
I'll bet Mr. Wiggles wouldn't say no.

Oh wait she doesn't have oversized eyes, snow-white skin, a revealing outfit, or a shy demeanor, my bad.
every

« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2009, 03:38:09 PM »
Aww, did your girlfriend implement another hands-off policy today Glorb?

As for Pixar humans, they look fine the way they are and usually don't take center stage so I can see why they're far more exagerrated than the other creatures in those universes. To claim Pixar should avoit rendering human characters because you don't like the stylized designs is just stupid.
As a game that requires six friends, an HDTV, and skill, I can see why the majority of TMK is going to hate on it hard.

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2009, 03:58:59 PM »
Okay, I confess. Not only did I skip the Incredibles, I also skipped Cars, Ratatooie (or however you spell it) and Wall-E. During that period, I didn't like how Pixar was looking (Cars looked like one of the dumbest movies I have ever seen a trailer for). I DID want to see Wall-E but at the time I didn't live near a movie theater and when we went on vacation in July, my mom and Grandparents wanted to see Kingdom of the Crystal Skull more.

Btw, I dislike A Bugs Life due to Heimlich being such a stupid character.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2009, 04:30:42 PM »
I dislike the Fungi Forums due to Tv_Themes being such a stupid member.

Do you see how it sounds?
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2009, 04:47:06 PM »
I dislike the internet because PaperLuigi fails to realize the genius of Tv_Theme's genius.
every

« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2009, 05:26:11 PM »
Cars was pretty mediocre, but it had its moments.

Ratatouille was excellent, one of my favorite Pixar films. It's quite underrated compared to the other ones though.

Wall-E is the definition of overrated. It's not terrible but it doesn't deserve to be placed on such a high pedestal.
As a game that requires six friends, an HDTV, and skill, I can see why the majority of TMK is going to hate on it hard.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2009, 04:33:56 PM »
Cars looked very unappealing to me for several (fairly complex) reasons, but I did see some of it on one occasion and I'd just like to say that vehicular versions of Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jay Leno, and a Japanese news anchor were some of the funniest things I've ever seen in a Disney-related movie.

Wall*E was good--"message"-wise, it basically struck me as Idiocracy for kids (however, there is this one line in the movie that I still remember as being pretty stupid/funny). Have yet to really see Ratatouille (but it seems like there's something wrong with having a phonetic translation as part of your film's logo).
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2009, 04:40:19 PM »
"'Message'--wise"?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 05:11:37 PM by Turtlekid1 »
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2009, 05:06:15 PM »
Well, I guess in terms of it being a Brave New World-ish extension of modern society. Perhaps "theme-wise" would've been a better phrase.

Oh, and I have no problem with Pixar humans.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2009, 06:04:41 PM »
Wall*E was good--"message"-wise, it basically struck me as Idiocracy for kids (however, there is this one line in the movie that I still remember as being pretty stupid/funny). Have yet to really see Ratatouille (but it seems like there's something wrong with having a phonetic translation as part of your film's logo).
What's the one line that's stupid/funny? Is it the phrase "Stay the course" considering Bush was still president at the time? Is it the idea of pizza trees?

I tried watching Idiocracy, but I wasn't a fan of its brand of humor (although maybe that was the point). I'm under the impression that the first 15 minutes (stupid people reproduce more, the future is a garbage dump, everybody owns a 200" TV with ads lining every side of the screen, the only show is one where a guy repeatedly gets hit in the groin) are all you need to know. For me it's a better film in concept than execution.

The phonetic translation as part of the logo was only for the movie posters. You don't see it on the DVD cover. They put it there because no American was going to know how to pronounce it (I've never heard of the food, a moot point as I'm not saavy on French culture anyway), just to prevent people asking to see "rat-ah-too-ill" or too-will or whatever. I wonder how many people said "rat chef movie" instead.
You didn't say wot wot.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2009, 09:40:09 PM »
The phonetic translation is on all the covers for the video games.
Also I thought Wall-E was good at being the furthest extension of the people being lazy on their couches mentality. And showing how those people are stupid.
That was a joke.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2009, 08:40:52 AM »
What's the one line that's stupid/funny? Is it the phrase "Stay the course" considering Bush was still president at the time? Is it the idea of pizza trees?
It's the part where the Axiom is tipping and there's a bunch of babies falling towards this fat man and woman and I think the woman hollered "GET READY TO HAVE KIDS!"
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2009, 10:37:02 AM »
I thought the whole movie was a lot funnier and more clever than people give it credit for.
every

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2009, 07:42:46 PM »
I'm sorry, but I just have to do this...

Not only did I skip the Incredibles, I also skipped Cars, Ratatooie (or however you spell it) and Wall-E.

"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2009, 11:35:04 AM »
I lost to Bob Parr.
You didn't say wot wot.

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2009, 12:17:50 PM »
I lost to Bob Barr.
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2009, 12:23:04 PM »
You didn't say wot wot.

Tv_Themes

  • Voted off the island
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2009, 12:58:28 PM »
I lost to Lord Rataxes
Unless you are cloned, you do not need to look like a midget version of your dad. Okay Bowser Jr.?

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