Author Topic: Determinism vs. Free Will (Read 13821 times)

PaperLuigi · « **on:** October 01, 2009, 01:09:24 PM »

"Determinism is the view that every event, including human cognition, behavior, decision, and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences."

"Free will raises the question whether, and in what sense, rational agents exercise control over their actions, decisions, choices."

Are you a determinist or do you believe in free will? Do we have the ability to make our own choices, or are our decisions determined by prior events? Discuss. Please cite evidence to support your beliefs.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:58:42 PM »

TEM · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2009, 05:04:12 PM »

The reason I don't really like this argument is that if it was decided one way or another it wouldn't matter.

Kuromatsu · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2009, 05:12:23 PM »

So in other words, we don't have a choice about having a choice.

Luigison · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2009, 05:27:40 PM »

Do subatomic particles have free will? What do the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle and Schrödinger equation suggest in this regard? I've been studying this for years and haven't drawn a definite conclusion, but believe that if humans have free will then so do subatomic particles and vice versa. I use the term "believe" here because the quantum world has not yet been fully reconciled with the macroscopic world.

ShadowBrain · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2009, 06:03:34 PM »

Quoth that guy from Knowing: "I think [dukar] just happens"

Granted, through cause and effect, and taking into account that stuff Luigison so accurately mentioned about particles, one can reasonably say that there's not really free will--but in the sense that we have no control at the same time we're being controlled.

So I suppose I believe in determinism and free will at the same time. Everything we know is because of everyone and everything we've ever experienced with our senses, but we're the ones who put all that together and decide what to do with it.

Weegee · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2009, 06:05:41 PM »

Kuro... posted?

Anyway, I'm just hoping that this doesn't get into another mind-numbing debate over the unanswerable question of predestination.

Luigison, wouldn't, you know, bacteria or something make a better comparison than subatomic particles? Inanimate objects can only be influenced by surrounding forces, so free will seems somewhat out of the question in my opinion.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2009, 06:46:51 PM »

Quote from: Chupperson Weird on October 01, 2009, 04:58:42 PM

No.

Yes.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #8 on:** October 01, 2009, 06:55:24 PM »

Quote from: TEM on October 01, 2009, 05:04:12 PM

The reason I don't really like this argument is that if it was decided one way or another it wouldn't matter.

Yeah, I see your point. This stuff has always intrigued me though so I thought I'd ask.

Luigison · « **Reply #9 on:** October 01, 2009, 07:02:00 PM »

Bacteria may be a better comparison, but we are all made of the same stuff. Although, it could be argued that we are more than a sum of our parts. Brain scans can tell us what we are going to think before we are even consciously aware of it. That doesn't prove anything, but adds a new wrinkle to the discussion.

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 01, 2009, 08:55:57 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinist

Weegee · « **Reply #11 on:** October 01, 2009, 09:09:45 PM »

In other words, half of us are ****ed.

Of course, predestination is a concept so mind-bogglingly impossible to prove or refute that it's barely worth discussing. Besides, we're still making choices for ourselves as far as we're concerned, and therefore whatever we decide to do was predetermined anyway.

I have no idea as to what I just said.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #12 on:** October 01, 2009, 10:45:52 PM »

Meh, perhaps this topic should be locked if you guys are not interested in talking about it.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:40:10 AM »

We're talking about it, just in a different manner than how you expected.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #14 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:51:22 AM »

I didn't expect anything though. The conversation as a whole is going well, but some of you have expressed disinterest.

I'm good with it if you guys are. Don't mind me.