Mariology (serious posts wanted)

[Chupperson Weird]

It's licensed, but it isn't made by Nintendo.

[jmdblazer]

I'm pretty sure that any 3rd party mario game can't be considered canon.

[CrossEyed7]

Most Mario games today aren't made by Nintendo either. TOSE, Artoon, Hudson, Sega, AlphaDream, etc. And even the ones that are made by official divisions of Nintendo usually don't have much interaction from Miyamoto.

I say the Nintendo seal should be enough.

[Weegee]

Sega Mario games?

Anyways, here's the Mario Wiki's notes on the topic at hand.

[Chupperson Weird]

Even though theirs seems to be the correct stance, Mario Wiki holds no authority over anything. Just thought you'd like to know.

[The Chef]

I'm pretty sure that any 3rd party mario game can't be considered canon.

But it doesn't have an official canon to consider in the first place. This was done on purpose to allow the fans to imagine it however they choose.

[Weegee]

Even though theirs seems to be the correct stance, Mario Wiki holds no authority over anything. Just thought you'd like to know.

Very true, although it can probably be established that the folks over at the Mario Wiki have put more hours into research on the topic than everyone in this discussion combined.

[Chupperson Weird]

For the sole reason that there are on the whole more people contributing to Mario Wiki than people who have posted in this thread.

And not just research, but ridiculous conjecture as well.

[Weegee]

So then. I believe it's high time that TMK dealt with one of the Mario series' most enduring questions:

Is Toad's mushroom-cap some sort of headgear, his hair, or or simply his upper cranial cavity?

Of course, whatever is the case, it applies for all Mushroom People/Toads. The first reference to the matter comes about with Toad removing his cap in the Super Mario Brothers Super Show(!) to use the thing as a parachute, briefly revealing his folically-challenged scalp underneath. The concept of Mushroom People concealing their actual hair beneath a hat is further supported by PM:TTYD's Zip Toad, shown below:



...Not to mention Mojo Nixon's precedent-setting depiction of the guy in Super Mario Bros.: The Movie:



Conversely, Toad's female counterpart, Toadette, is shown with pigtail-like mushroom bits protruding from the main section. Of course, it could be argued that she simply wears a feminine variety of the usual 'shroom hat, although it's doubtable. One must also consider that if such is the case, Toad has an afro and therefore is black. Yeah. To illustrate the "hair" theory...



Lastly, the spotted mass could simply be a vital article of a Mushroom Person's biological composure. I couldn't find any canonical basis for the idea, but just thought I'd throw it out there.

[CrossEyed7]

Another thing to consider: In the comic books, the King's mushroom cap was easily removable and regularly replaced, and everyone knew it. One time he had it replaced with cake, and no one considered it odd that trucks were bringing in new mushroom caps for him.

Then again, his daughter is clearly human, so maybe he is too and is just dressing up as a Toad for ceremonial reasons.

Incidentally, Peach has a grandmother in SMRPG who is definitely a Toad, and Toadsworth has been implied once or twice to be Peach's grandfather (however, since his age has also been canonically established as 60 at the time of TTYD, then assuming TTYD is at least a few years after Mario and Luigi have been in the Mushroom World (considering how famous they are) and that Peach was about 20 in SMB, Toadsworth must have been pretty young when whichever of Peach's parents was born).

Peach also had a human grandmother on an episode of the SMBSS:



So it's a likely conclusion that she's half-Toad and half-human. But this is kind of a tangent.

[Sqrt2]

...Not to mention Mojo Nixon's precedent-setting depiction of the guy in Super Mario Bros.: The Movie:

This is the same movie that claims that goombas are 6 foot tall, and that Bowser is Peach's dad (and Peach is really called Daisy)....

In fact I'd go as far to say that neither the cartoons or the film count as any kind of canon, and only the platform/RPG games count toward canonicity

[ShadowBrain]

I think he was joking. Scratch that, hope he was joking.

Also, that Grandma-Peach is totally new to me.

[The Chef]

I'd prefer not to use the TV shows and comics as any indication of anything. They're based on, but not directly tied to the games.

My stance on the Toad hat/head thing is that they're both a hat and a body part. Koopas are born with removable shells, and Yoshis hatch from their eggs with shoes and saddles. Let's also not forget Mario, Luigi, Peach and Wario all being born with headgear as seen in Yoshi's Island DS.

I covered this and several other issues in this page I made:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc4w7z8r_54dcdhthd3

Go ahead and read it if you have time. I used a bit of research and a little bit of geek thinking. I also tried as hard as I could to avoid conjecture and fabrication at all costs.

[Weegee]

I believe that a general concensus can be established regarding how little clout Mario's televised incarnations carry over the actual games' canonicity, amIrite?

Anyways, I agree with your thoughts on Toad's head, Chef -- it's quite reasonable that they're born/spawned/grown/whatever with removable caps and white diaper-pants. Of course, from this conclusion stems the question of why only particular female Mushroom People have "pigtails" growing from their caps. On that note, Iwas kidding about Mojo Nixon. We all know that Toad is black, after all.

[Toad]

This is the same movie that claims that goombas are 6 foot tall, and that Bowser is Peach's dad (and Peach is really called Daisy)....

In the movie, Daisy is the Princess to be rescued and is Luigi's love interest.

Now, about Bowser being Peach's dad: I have seen the movie hundreds of times, and nowhere does it state anything like that at all..