New Mario titles unveiled at E3

[Toad]

And Toad, those examples are different and you know it.

Different how? They are still games that play themselves, regardless of whether there is a story or not.

[ShadowBrain]

There's a difference between a game "playing itself" on structured occasions where no input is necessary (i.e. moving X amount of spaces in Mario Party--which, by the way, is like a board game, and you can't just run your pieces rampant about the board in Monopoly) and "playing itself" as a separate quasi-mode for sheer entertainment (All-CPU battles in fighters)... and being able to "skip" a section of a level at will by letting the system take over or by summoning an instant virtual cheat sheet.

[CrossEyed7]

Is there a difference between this and using a Warp Zone, or this and reading a strategy guide, or this and watching someone else play?

[Toad]

With Mario Party (at least, the first 3) you could cheat by making all the players CPU, then jump in at the last turn, turn them all into humans, and then any coins and stars they collected would go into the bank (or similar collection device).

How is that different than a version of New SMB playing itself?

[BP]

You still have to play the story mode yourself, don't you? Watching some computer players play a free-for-all in SSB is very different from having them clear a single-player mode for you (which you also can't do). Tertris Attack! DID let you send a computer player through the story mode, but at the end it said "now do it yourself,"  something to that effect.

For any and all situations I am prepared to ask "Did you let the computer play any part for you" when anybody claims to have beaten New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and will disregard the claim if so. I mean, it's even worse than using a Warp Zone.

[CrossEyed7]

In NBA Jam 99's Franchise mode, you could play as the other team and just suck really bad to make your team go on.

[The Chef]

Tertris Attack! DID let you send a computer player through the story mode, but at the end it said "now do it yourself,"  something to that effect.

This is the first I've heard of this. How's it done?

[BP]

You can set player 1 or 2 to computer-controlled (and set a level, I think) in options. As far as I can remember, this covers all modes.

[Chupperson Weird]

Toad is using all non-platformer examples for his auto-play comparisons. You don't get anything for letting CPs fight themselves in Smash Bros (well I guess you might get some trophy stuff but that isn't significant the way beating a level of a platformer is). There isn't any significant progress gained, whereas skipping a stage in a  stage-progression-based game puts you closer to the end. This is bad because you should have to get good enough to do it yourself.

[CrossEyed7]

I assume you're all against gay marriage, then? Because both positions are countered with "how does other people doing things in the privacy of their homes that you wouldn't do hurt you?" Is there some abstract "sanctity" of games that non-gamers would be violating by playing games in a way they're not supposed to, even though gamers themselves are just as guilty if not more of violating that sanctity it in their own ways by cheating and hacking and using walkthroughs? The parallels are striking.

I say let people play games the way they want. It's an option, one that can be used or not used at each individual's discretion. You can play the game exactly as if there were no demo mode if that's what you want. Again, if this is successful, it means games don't have to be dumbed down anymore -- they can make a full game, catered to us, that can dumb itself down on the fly if needed. The market needs to be expanded, Nintendo needs to make money, games need to sell to bigger audiences to justify making them, and this seems to potentially be about the best possible outcome for us in this situation. Because the other option is for them to just completely abandon us and do nothing but sell so-called "non-games" to the 95% of the world that's not us.

Don't talk about the way we "should have to" play games or what we're "supposed to" do. Going back to the gay marriage comparison, whether you agree with them or not, Christians can claim that the word of God supports their positions on what we should do, and that it's not just a personal preference or opinion. The closest thing gamers have to God is Miyamoto, and he's the one doing this.

You don't get anything for letting CPs fight themselves in Smash Bros.

What do you "get" for beating a platformer? All I've ever gotten is the satisfaction of knowing that I beat it. You don't get that from having the game play itself. It'd be one thing if they were getting some kind of achievement points for it or whatever, but I'm pretty sure the patent specifically says that when you use it you won't be able to save and things like your score won't count.

For the record, I'd rather government didn't have anything to do with marriage at all, seeing as it's supposed to be a religious institution, but that's not really relevant right now.

[Weegee]

The closest thing gamers have to God is Miyamoto

It's true.

Anyways, that argument is true to an extent -- While it's certainly the specific noob gamer's choice to use the function, its availability in and of itself exemplifies an upsetting trend in gaming which most honourable Mr. Miyamoto-san certainly isn't helping combat by proposing such features. Next thing we know, Wii controllers are going to come equipped with a "BEAT GAME" button on their underside.

[Lizard Dude]

CrossEyed7 is the voice of reason here. Who cares what n00bs do in the privacy of their own single-player?

Cheat codes and level selects have existed since the dawn of NES. After almost going extinct in the past few generations, Nintendo is bringing back old-school built-in cheating in a big way. Brian should be all about this, but instead he decries it as the "first real genuine blow to the whole point of videogames".

Note: Once somone brings the cheating/hacking into a multiplayer environment, they instantly plummet to scum unworthy even to play ET on Atari. Someone who uses hacking in a persistent multiplayer environment like Animal Crossing or Pokemon doesn't even deserve to live.

Summary: Single-player cheating = gay sex in your house. Multiplayer cheating = anally raping a straight dude. Persistent world cheating = anally raping the Pope.

[CrossEyed7]

Next thing we know, Wii controllers are going to come equipped with a "BEAT GAME" button on their underside.

[ShadowBrain]

Practice safe level-skipping: Use a Wii Remote slipcover.

In all seriousness, though, after some of this discussion, I've come to the thought that if this new feature does herald the return of reasonably difficult games, that's acceptable by me. Still, I really do think there are other ways to go about this. Though this probably wouldn't work for, say, NSMBW, I understand there's games that let you change difficulty levels on the fly. Maybe something like that?

[BP]

LD, I seem to recall you being violently against the use of walkthroughs.

I will be okay with this existing if perhaps it, like Tetris Attack!, does not let you see the ending if used excessively.