Fungi Forums
Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: Tv_Themes on August 29, 2009, 10:49:12 PM
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Okay, I just read on Tv Tropes (great website btw) that Vivian was male in the Japanese version of Thousand Year Door.
Is this true?
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Yes. There should be a website that documents, among other things, the changes between the Japanese and English versions of Mario games. I'd read the heck out of it, and join their forums.
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Are you genuinely asking this question because you want to clear up some confusion or are you asking because you realized you've made some horrible mistakes with those images saved in your computer?
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My God at least Birdo kinda looks passible for a boy!
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To be fair, he/she did have quite a gut for a spirit.
Also, the lack of visible eyes doesn't help matters much.
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We covered Vivian here: http://themushroomkingdom.net/pmttyd_j2e.shtml#vivian
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Gender-bending is actually an everyday occurrence in mainstream Japanese entertainment. See also: Poison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_(Final_Fight)), Bridget (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridget_(video_game_character)#Bridget), Birdo (http://www.mariowiki.com/Birdo)
and Futanari.-- DON'T
Well, on second thought, feel free to ask my associate Mr. Wiggles about that last one.
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"Well... nobody's perfect."
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So...
What about Beldam and Marian just for curiosity sake?
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No, they're both girls. Vivian is the only boy.
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+10 internets to ShadowBrain for that reference.
I know that the issue has been tread upon a million times before, but still: Are technically-male characters like Birdo and Vivian actually portrayed as males in Japan? Like, do contemporary Mario titles refer to Birdo as a boy despite her his ITS implied relationship with Yoshi?
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I feel sorry for Yoshi. They stuck him with the ugliest Mario character ever. A cute female Yoshi with a bow on her head would've been better despite being a tad cliched.
Hell, even Wario has Mona and he's really ugly.
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http://themushroomkingdom.net/birdo.shtml
Remember when people who came here knew what was on the site?
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Long story short: She was a he until Nintendo found Americans not to like he-shes, after which he/she became commonly known as a she, as if she had never been a he in the first place.
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Uh, no. Brawl says Birdo is "indeterminate gender" and Captain Rainbow has actual plot related to Birdo and his man-voice/vibrator.
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I see this is derailing into another Birdo thread, which will in turn become a Yoshi x Birdo thread.
Back to Vivian... It would have helped more if she/he/it didn't ACT like a heterosexual woman instead of a homosexual man.
Say, was Vivian (or whatever he was called) a gay character?
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Considering that (s)he confesses her love to Mario at the end of the game, it's a possibility to say the least.
EDIT: THIS JUST IN: The Westboro Baptist Church has just decreed that God now hates Nintendo.
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Well, how much of that dialogue was modified along with Vivian's gender?
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I'm pretty [darn] sure Vivian actually kisses him at least once. So...yeah. I'm not sure Nintendo of America would go out of their own way to do that.
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Vivian wasn't gay, he was transsexual. There's a difference. You're not mentally gay if you're a dude who thinks you're a female.
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Lizard Dude's post reminds of this one time I was in an AIM chat and I linked the others to the profile of this one poster on another board I go to. He was a guy who mentally believed he was a women and claimed to be a lesbian dating another tranny.
A certain member in that chat took offense not at the fact that I was calling him crazy beyond reason, but because I referred to him as a he. Then I got into a two hour argument about what qualifies as male/female.
Good times.
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Has anybody here ever used the phrase "MORF"?
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Uh, no. Brawl says Birdo is "indeterminate gender" .
Brawl also says Kaptain K.Rool is a seperate character from King K.Rool among other errors, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. The Captain Rainbow thing is probably better to go by.
I see this is derailing into another Birdo thread, which will in turn become a Yoshi x Birdo thread.
You're a jack***.
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That seems a little harsh...
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I see this is derailing into another Tv_Themes thread, which will in turn become a The Chef x Tv_Themes thread.
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I really don't see how that quote makes me a jack***...
All I was doing was saving my own thread from going severely off-topic like my Waluigi Dying thread.
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On one hand, we have that thread, which presented a legitimate point ("does Waluigi really need to exist anymore?") with an abruptly dark title; on the other, this thread, a legitimate topic already explained in reasonable detail elsewhere on this site (though I won't necessarily fault you for not knowing that). Both had potential for ripe debate at first, but it's only eventual that serious discussion will derail and craziness will prevail.
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Um... I could be wrong, but maybe you guys are thinking of this the wrong way?
The Journal and Goombella's tattle both refer to her/him in a questioning way. The journal thing is supposed to be written by Mario, right? That's what I assume at least.
Anyway, Vivian's sisters make fun of her constantly, calling her ugly and other stuff. So couldn't they being calling her a man as a insult to her? Mario and Goombella could have overheard this, and gotten confused about it. (Much like us. XD)
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The Journal is written from a non-character perspective, and recited by Goombella in battle with her own mannerisms included.
Vivian is a gender-confused boy in the Japanese version, but was "made" into a girl by modifying the translated script for the American release.
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Am I the only person who likes the fact Nintendo localizes gay/transgender/transvestite characters out of my games?
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Yeah, probably.
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Fair enough.
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On one hand, you could say it's adding diversity; on the other hand, at least to my American mind, it just seems like provacativeness for the sake of provacativeness.
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Am I the only person who likes the fact Nintendo localizes gay/transgender/transvestite characters out of my games?
I don't have experience with any besides Birdo and Vivian (are there others in other series?), but I'm glad they're female here.
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Am I the only person who likes the fact Nintendo localizes gay/transgender/transvestite characters out of my games?
It's incredible that PL didn't rape you to death for stating that. Alas, I agree. Japan is simply too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay) ...err, much more liberal with their views toward sexuality. Likewise, an American game with copious amounts of violence or language may be banned or at least censored for Japanese release.
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Japan is simply too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay) ...err, much more liberal with their views toward sexuality.
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FArts%2FArts_%2FPictures%2F2009%2F1%2F13%2F1231856284149%2FRoman-Polanski-001.jpg&hash=9b8682fdf69cf9fd9d3b0cd0eb5ae314)
lol, child rape
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Japan is simply too ...err, much more liberal with their views toward sexuality.
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F9%2F90%2FJames_breasts.jpg&hash=8c8182dcea37c4f6a1f2252f4737532a)
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Japan is simply too (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay) ...err, much more liberal with their views toward sexuality.
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_tzKQYLdFGG0%2FRhBNa-Ukd1I%2FAAAAAAAAAQE%2FKHqyIx--oUQ%2Fs400%2FVivian.jpg&hash=841212e377c857b9d8a649a7fc3daaa9)
Wait a minute...
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchives.bulbagarden.net%2Fmedia%2Fupload%2Fd%2Fd4%2FHun.jpg&hash=745b6c113f89653d6d66dc81adbdc262)
Catch my drift?
Though Bashou was not a gender confused nor homosexual, he just had long hair.
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When's Captain Rainbow coming out anyway? Or has it been confirmed it's not coming to the US?
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I think common sense has confirmed that it's not coming to America.
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farchives.bulbagarden.net%2Fmedia%2Fupload%2Fd%2Fd4%2FHun.jpg&hash=745b6c113f89653d6d66dc81adbdc262)
Catch my drift?
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi382.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo270%2Fraissarossurie%2Fharley%2520pokemon%2Fharley9.jpg&hash=3b284fee5648facf5b0da7254c64e62e)
What has this thread become?
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A den of Weeaboos, that's what. This is why we can't have nice things.
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I don't understand why Nintendo does this. I mean why did they really need to make 2 different genders for Vivian?
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Cultural differences on what's acceptable to delve into in front of a wide audience.
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Clearly, the concept of transsexuality/gender confusion is more acceptable in Japan than over here (most Adam Sandler movies aside), but I must ask: Is there also a disproportionate amount of such individuals in Japan, or can the seemingly considerable amount of transvetites, etc. in videogames/other media be attributed to the small-scale, less conservative equivalent of the American need to put multicultural people in advertisements?
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Actually, Japan frowns more on such people than America does in real life, but in fiction they're all over the place.
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A den of Weeaboos, that's what. This is why we can't have nice things.
People act like "Weeaboo" is like the N-Word.
Call me one, I promise I won't get offended. :)
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RETURN MY BIKE YOU [darn]ED WEEABOO
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What in the world is the linguistic root of that word, anyway?
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Actually, Japan frowns more on such people than America does in real life, but in fiction they're all over the place.
Why does Japan frown on so many things that pop up so often in their fiction? Are they a nation of hypocrites or something?
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ShadowBrain: http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF071-Weeaboo.gif is the first recorded instance of the word.
Chef: No idea.
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That's hard to believe, considering that there's no previous context. "Weeaboo" obviously meant something at the time of that comic's inception, so... yeah. It was probably originally an in-joke in some obscure forum, right?
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It was used in that comic, and then some 4chan mods made it the replacement word in the filter for "wapanese". From there, it just caught on.
As for the nation of hypocrites, its mostly about the money. Pander to the basement dwellers, and they'll spend millions on little anime girl statues, CD dramas, hug pillows, and whatever else they can get out of commercialization. If you ever read some reports, you can see that kind of behavior isn't encouraged by the public.
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Funny how niches apparently = bank in Japan, while in America...
Speaking of America, not to dip into NatDT territory, but it's kind of the pot calling the kettle black to contemplate Japan being hypocritical for letting their media glorify things they collectively disapprove of.
And CW: Yeah, I remember when someone posted that disturbing thing around here... like Weegee said, there's not really any previous context (but has that ever stopped the internet?), and yet it just seems so... right.
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Scratch what I said. Japan is a nation of swindlers. Can't be believe I didn't think to put it that was sooner.
Then again, they DO pride themselves on ripping off America so...
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Are you sure you aren't thinking of China?