Evolution in school and whatnot

[ShadowBrain]

Guys, we might as well stop. There's no getting through the thick shell that is Turtlekid's sheltered Christian upbringing.

[CrossEyed7]

Logically speaking, if you don't believe in evolution, then you shouldn't believe in genes, or the passing down thereof.

A scientist could easily argue that rejecting evolution means denying the existence of sex; a theologian could easily argue that rejecting 6-day creation means denying the existence of morality.

Guys, we might as well stop. There's no getting through the thick shell that is Turtlekid's sheltered Christian upbringing.

If he outnumbered you 20 to 1, he could condescendingly dismiss your arguments by just remarking that there's no getting through your government brainwashing, if he wanted to.

Both.

So because you think he might not understand what you're saying and you know you don't understand what he's saying, he's the stupid one? Why? Because your ideas are inherently superior to his, or at least to your admittedly limited understanding of what his ideas are?

Plenty of mutations are helpful. Would you like to be unable to breathe oxygen?

This sounds suspiciously like circular reasoning to me. He believes evolution isn't true because mutations aren't helpful, and your response is to point to something that is a helpful mutation if evolution is true?

- The vibe I've gotten from the topic so far is that the only real evidence for evolution is the overall logical consistency of the idea and some incidents today, but there's no tangible evidence of historical evolution. If I'm wrong, can someone point me in the right direction (without implying I'm an idiot)?
- How many people who are mad at Turtlekid for not paying attention actually read all the stuff he posted?
- PL, if you don't mind my saying so, I think you could be a bit more gracious. The others are doing a pretty good job of beating Turtlekid up on their own, but there's a shortage of people arguing nicely with him.
- Anyone want to respond to my post from the beginning? Is it being ignored because it's too good or because it's too dumb? I'll take self-esteem wherever I can find it, so I'll assume the former for now.

[Chupperson Weird]

Why does the creationism argument always end up in defense of things like "morality"? What does that really have to do with it at all? Of course, I've already discussed elsewhere my disbelief in an absolute morality. But honestly, if you want to avoid circular reasoning, I wouldn't being up the articles Turtlekid linked. They are written in a manner that preaches to the choir, not in a manner that seeks to convince anyone who isn't already convinced.
Also for the record, I have no beef with your first post. I don't think it's a particularly "good" post, though. Also for the record, I'm not really an evolution proponent, but I'm also not a predetermination kind of guy. I know how things like viruses work. Mutation is how the common cold stays around. Our immune systems have to keep writing new information in order to keep up with those mutations.
Lastly, I believe in God, and I am also sure of the existence of aliens. Whether either one of them directly had to do with the current state of human DNA is unknown to me, and I don't really even care. Why do we have to be worried with where we came from, instead of where we're going, which is really much more important unless you don't believe in the sanctity of life?

[PaperLuigi]

PL, if you don't mind my saying so, I think you could be a bit more gracious. The others are doing a pretty good job of beating Turtlekid up on their own, but there's a shortage of people arguing nicely with him.

If I came off as being rude, I apologize.

[Luigison]

Shortly after this thread was posted I typed a long reply explaining my understanding of evolution and believe in God, but now that I've seen where this thread has gone I'm glad I didn't post it.  Instead I suggest that everyone watch all of the following video.  I think it gives credit to both "sides" of this so called debate. 

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Judgment+Day+Intelligent+Design+on+Trial#

If you found the video interesting support its "creation" by purchasing it: 
http://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Day-Intelligent-Design-Trial/dp/B000YY6VIC

I also suggest reading "Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution": 
http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwins-God-Scientists-Evolution/dp/0061233501

[Toad]

I think that if it were taught in schools, then the scene from Super Mario Bros: the movie where Koopa explains what he evolved from, would be perfect for describing evolution.

[TEM]

Super Mario Bros: the movie

[ShadowBrain]

If he outnumbered you 20 to 1, he could condescendingly dismiss your arguments by just remarking that there's no getting through your government brainwashing, if he wanted to.

I thought the government was trying to brainwash us into believing in God. Or am I misinterpreting this?

[PaperLuigi]

I don't think the government is brainwashing us to believe in God. If anything, many states are doing a good job of honoring the separation of church and state. Others, like Kansas, not so much.

Like I said, believing in God doesn't have to conflict with "believing" in evolution. I personally find both realms beautiful in their own way.

[nensondubois]

I think that evolution, no forget it... the brainwashing argument has already been proven to ridiculous.