Author Topic: Sharron Angle (Read 15194 times)

PaperLuigi · « **on:** July 09, 2010, 12:05:23 AM »

I'm really disinterested in politics right now but this woman is hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaN5-J0icrw

She wants to abolish the Department of Education. Seriously?

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2010, 07:16:14 AM »

Seriously. Sounds to me like she wants to get rid of government organizations that shouldn't exist.

Moar liek Sharon ANGEL! :D

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2010, 08:54:09 AM »

I may not be a smart man in regards to politics, but I know how long we'll last as a nation with everything privatized. Especially education, you know? Poorer students won't be able to pay for education and teachers will be able to teach whatever they want (including their religious and political views). No regulation, no rules.

At least I think that's what Sharron Angle is advocating. I just wanted to post the link because her rhetoric is hilarious.

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2010, 09:04:31 AM »

She's probably advocating homeschooling... you know, where parents take responsibility for their own kids instead of sending them off to day care five days a week for thirteen years.

The Chef · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2010, 09:44:21 AM »

Don't talk about public school until you've been there.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2010, 11:01:08 AM »

I think I ended up pretty well being homeschooled. Unfortunately not everyone can be trusted to do a good job of educating their own children. I think it would be great if they could. Also I don't think the current school system is anywhere near a good idea at all.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2010, 01:34:26 PM »

Quote from: Turtlekid1 on July 09, 2010, 09:04:31 AM

She's probably advocating homeschooling... you know, where parents take responsibility for their own kids instead of sending them off to day care five days a week for thirteen years.

But can we trust parents to teach their kids the right stuff? I'm in favor of reform, not eradication.

I mean, I can understand where you're coming from because high school really sucked for me (lots of teachers and students who just didn't care) but private school has its problems too. I should know, I currently attend one.

Weegee · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2010, 02:40:49 PM »

This woman is an attention whore. She raises some valid ideological points, but her outlandish approach is totally unnecessary. Also, Wikipedia reports that she's against the flouridation of drinking water. Lol.

Glorb · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2010, 03:37:38 PM »

I think homeschooling should be like mega illegal. I was homeschooled until I was like nine and look how I turned out. I knew a bunch of kids who stayed homeschooled by their parents and they slowly morphed into the bizarre creepy fundamentalist Christian virgin basket cases they are now. They were raised entirely by their parents, which is, trust me, not a good thing. I don't care if your parents are god[darn]ed Batman and George Washington, you will turn out a twisted freak if you don't go to public school.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2010, 03:45:10 PM »

Quote from: Glorb on July 09, 2010, 03:37:38 PM

fundamentalist Christian

This is my main problem with homeschooling. The majority of parents who homeschool their kids are fundamentalists.

SolidShroom · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2010, 03:55:36 PM »

Yeah, everyone should be homeschooled because every parent has enough free time to teach their children. But really, education is the job of the state, not the nation.

CrossEyed7 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2010, 04:30:59 PM »

Quote from: Chupperson Weird on July 09, 2010, 11:01:08 AM

I think I ended up pretty well being homeschooled. Unfortunately not everyone can be trusted to do a good job of educating their own children. I think it would be great if they could. Also I don't think the current school system is anywhere near a good idea at all.

Pretty much exactly my viewpoint. I was homeschooled from kindergarten through seventh grade, and while my social skills have taken a while to recover (helped that our house was thirty miles away from like anything), I'm pretty well-adjusted and rather smart. But I know people who had much worse experiences. When the kids never have to leave the house and they're not old enough to call child services themselves (assuming they even have phones and can get to them and use them without their parents finding out), some pretty bad [dukar] can go down. I'm a libertarian, but I'm also a human, and I recognize you do need some government intervention sometimes.

But you know, I don't think a fully privatized school system would necessarily be all that bad. We have a privatized food system, so to speak, and that seems to work out alright. It's extensively inspected and regulated by the government to make sure it's safe and good and all, and there's food stamps if you can't afford it. The government can assure the quality of our food while leaving the production of the food in the hands of much more competent, less wasteful people, and giving us the freedom to choose the foods we want. Seems to me like you could do the same thing with schools.

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 09, 2010, 04:37:17 PM »

Quote from: Glorb on July 09, 2010, 03:37:38 PM

I think homeschooling should be like mega illegal. I was homeschooled until I was like nine and look how I turned out. I knew a bunch of kids who stayed homeschooled by their parents and they slowly morphed into the bizarre creepy fundamentalist Christian virgin basket cases they are now. They were raised entirely by their parents, which is, trust me, not a good thing. I don't care if your parents are god[darn]ed Batman and George Washington, you will turn out a twisted freak if you don't go to public school.

Which is funny, because George Washington was homeschooled. Seriously, you can't make generalizations like that. Would you say the homeschooled people here are twisted freaks (well, besides me, who pretty much everyone thinks is a twisted freak in the area of politics)?

Quote from: PaperLuigi on July 09, 2010, 03:45:10 PM

This is my main problem with homeschooling. The majority of parents who homeschool their kids are fundamentalists.

You and Glorb both say this as though parents shouldn't have the right to educate their own children how they see fit.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2010, 04:48:02 PM »

Turtle, I have no problem with parents educating their children. What I do have a problem with is picking and choosing what to teach.

CrossEyed7 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2010, 05:05:46 PM »

But your problem isn't that they're picking, it's what they're picking. Choices always have to be made in education, you just don't like the choices they pick. So really, you are saying that parents shouldn't have the right to educate their children as they see fit. And to a certain extent, I agree. I'd go back to my food analogy again -- the government makes sure that your food isn't made out of rat poison or something, but they won't (or at least shouldn't) stop you from eating a Whopper if you want it.

Quote from: Glorb on July 09, 2010, 03:37:38 PM

they slowly morphed into the bizarre creepy fundamentalist Christian virgin basket cases they are now

Being a virgin is a bad thing?
How does one "morph into" being a virgin?

SolidShroom · « **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2010, 09:29:13 PM »

This is not meant with any disrespect whatsoever, but nobody who visits an Internet Forum (especially this one) regularly is really a part of the social norm, and using yourself as an example to prove any sort of point just doesn't ever work.

Weegee · « **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2010, 09:35:26 PM »

CE: I think Glorb means "virgin" as in "being twenty years old and still believing that girls have kooties". Just sayin'.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2010, 10:06:56 PM »

Re: "privatized" food, the government can tell you whatever they want is safe but that doesn't mean it is. A lot of food is of totally unknown origin but they say it's just fine anyway. Even places like Whole Foods get some of their products from anonymous Chinese distribution that can't be tracked at all and no one knows where it came from.
Basically the point is that the world is a lot weirder than people like to believe. New evidence that the USA doesn't want you to hear is that wifi and cell phones in intense concentrations are apparently harmful because we started using exactly the EM frequencies that human bodies respond to. People can believe what they want on both sides of the spectrum. I think Glorb is wrong and I want to homeschool my kids because I believe I am a knowledgeable and rational enough person to do it and pretty much everyone I know (as well as other smart people) testifies that public school is exactly the wrong thing. Do I believe everyone is sane enough to school their own kids? As I said before, no. There are some people who have been so miseducated already that they should not have license to teach their children. Where to draw the line is the tricky part.

Also, the stereotype of homeschooled kids not having any social skills is pure lies.

Fluoride in water supplies has been correlated with Alzheimer's if I remember right.

Rao · « **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2010, 10:42:27 PM »

Quote

This thread

Glorb · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2010, 06:19:26 PM »

Quote from: CrossEyed7 on July 09, 2010, 05:05:46 PM

How does one "morph into" being a virgin?

By being homeschooled.

Weegee · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2010, 08:11:58 PM »

"Please explain the anatomical process of re-virginization", is what we're asking.

CrossEyed7 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2010, 08:53:50 PM »

Well, there are re-virginization surgeries if you're female, and some acupuncturist claims male virgins have dots on the back of their ears, so I guess you could use a marker or something. But yeah.

Anyway my point is just that if you're saying people need to have sex before they're 18 in order to be normal and well-adjusted (it's hard to tell if you actually are saying that, since you've kinda been talking in trollspeak lately), you need to grow up.

Glorb · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2010, 11:49:54 PM »

I like how it's cool beans that I called all homeschoolers twisted freaks but once I drop the V word everyone's all WHOA WAIT WHAT

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2010, 10:29:39 PM »

Yeah I don't understand it either. You people need to stop taking everything so seriously.

ShadowBrain · « **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2010, 11:40:47 PM »

Okay, right off the bat: I haven't read the article yet. However, as for what you learn in public school? Reading, writing, 'rithmatic? You all know as well as I that you can learn that from your parents and/or the internet--no surprises there, and score one for the homeschoolers. However, what you're not going to learn is the things that go down in public school that technically aren't part of the curriculum, things that teach you how the real world actually works. While I'm likely to forget all the historical dates and quadratic formulas I memorized in high school, the politics and bureaucracy of the principal-teacher-ASB-student hierarchy, the social structures that are either bonded by clubs and classes or divided by cliques, and the hard truth about what often happens when geeks pursue goths (what, just me? Nevermind) are arguably just as relevant.

As for corporatizing education, do I need to name-drop Feed again? Who's up for SchoolTM? And I remember how uncomfortable I felt when I figured out The College Board was a company...

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #25 on:** July 13, 2010, 11:45:05 PM »

Dude, um, no. High school is not how the "real world" works at all. You just think that because the people you hang around from school act that way(?)

Glorb · « **Reply #26 on:** July 17, 2010, 08:59:06 AM »

Look, we can argue about this all day and all night, but here is the simple truth: If you go to public school, it will condition you to be a human being in ways that homeschool never will. You will meet people and make friends. Not just parent-approved friends, but actual friends. You build relationships, you socialize. You get awkward, you get in fights, you get into situations that you hate but will help you learn from your mistakes. You get none of that when the people you see most often is your immediate family.

I'm not saying that you will literally end up fundamentalist Christian (your family could be any religion or lack thereof), or a permanent virgin (though that one is extremely likely). I'm saying that you will, in the long run, end up lacking important social skills that you won't ever get to regain.

Why is anyone even taking pro-homeschool stances here, anyway? Aside from the nebulously defined "You will learn more" argument (especially since your parents could just decide to...I dunno, not teach you)?

CrossEyed7 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2010, 10:57:06 AM »

I still don't like how we're just assuming that Christianity and virginity are automatically bad things.

Anyway, I was never arguing that homeschool is always the best option. I think it's sometimes the best alternative to public school if you want your kid to not suck ass at math and grammar and stuff (private school is usually a better option, though). I think the government should step in a bit more to make sure parents aren't beating their kids. And I'm saying it doesn't have to mean you'll be completely socially stunted. Of the top of my head, I can think of two or three friends I had in college who were homeschooled (there were probably more that I'm not remembering now), including my girlfriend, and while I suppose none of them really qualify as "normal", all of them have social skills and a big circle of friends (And two of them I just met this year as freshmen, so it's not that they just became socialized after years of college). And if I may slip into my crazy idealist mode for a second, the last thing the world needs right now is more normal people.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2010, 10:59:18 AM »

Quote from: CrossEyed7 on July 17, 2010, 10:57:06 AM

I still don't like how we're just assuming that Christianity and virginity are automatically bad things.

Fundamentalism is bad though. You can be a Christian without being a fundamentalist.

Glorb · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2010, 12:05:10 PM »

I'm afraid, CrossEyed, that those are not good arguments. If you don't want your kid to "suck ass" at math and grammar, chances are cooping him up in your house isn't going to help him that much. And while you may know two or three people who are merely charmingly bizarre as a result of homeschool, by and large, 100%-homeschooled emerge socially crippled and enquipped to deal with other people in the long run. And I don't mean in a wacky, TV-weird way, I mean they are just weirdos, as a result of being conditioned to assume everyone else is going to see them the same way as their own family does. There's nothing cute or funny or unique about that, and the world definitely doesn't need anyone else like that.

CrossEyed7 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 17, 2010, 01:18:51 PM »

Because kids in public schools never turn out to be closed-minded or ill-adjusted or disapproving of people who aren't like them.

There are neighbors. There are group homeschool things. There are plenty of opportunities for kids to have social interactions and turn out normal regardless of the school they go to. Crazy parents don't stop being crazy just because their kids are going to public school (and probably getting bullied because they have crazy parents). The normality of your psyche is not solely determined by the kind of school you go to.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #31 on:** July 17, 2010, 01:46:11 PM »

Indeed, many of our greatest presidents were homeschooled.

Then again, that was back when humankind's understanding of science was relatively small. Parents aren't always equipped to teach that kind of stuff.

Dr. Echidna · « **Reply #32 on:** July 17, 2010, 03:26:46 PM »

Guys, just to let you know, I was homeschooled.

nensondubois · « **Reply #33 on:** July 17, 2010, 03:31:22 PM »

I do see Glorb's point: this is my small take on what I think he's saying: (not an argument)

You need to have your own natural experiences in life that are not pre-conditioned otherwise you won't know how to make connections with most people; which will aid you greatly in the long run. Both homeschool and public-school environments have their advantages and disadvantages just like everything else does.

Glorb · « **Reply #34 on:** July 17, 2010, 07:00:22 PM »

Pretty much.

I'm not demonizing homeschool just for kicks or to jump on any bandwagon. I'm just saying that life is a lot bigger than your living room and your mom and pop, and that the sooner you discover that sad fact, the better. CrossEyed keeps dancing around the issue by bringing up cases that are the exception, not the rule. I've known so, so many people in school that had terrible-ass parents; now imagine if the vast majority of their social circle consisted of those parents and a handful of parent-approved friends.

And even having entirely nice and well-meaning parents isn't enough. My parents are awesome people, but they sure as hell didn't teach me how to make friends, talk to girls, or defend myself in a fight. Those are things you need to learn on your own.

Dr. Echidna · « **Reply #35 on:** July 17, 2010, 07:52:09 PM »

Quote from: Glorb on July 17, 2010, 07:00:22 PM

I'm just saying that life is a lot bigger than your living room and your mom and pop, and that the sooner you discover that sad fact, the better.

Actually, I've known that fact for about as far back as I can remember. Seriously.

Quote from: Glorb on July 17, 2010, 07:00:22 PM

My parents are awesome people, but they sure as hell didn't teach me how to make friends, talk to girls, or defend myself in a fight.

Neither did mine.

CrossEyed7 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 17, 2010, 10:33:51 PM »

You think I'm just dealing with idealized exceptions here? Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was homeschooled through 7th grade. My oldest sibling wasn't born until I was in 2nd grade, and we lived in the middle of nowhere with no neighbors, so I had virtually no social interactions whatsoever. When I got dropped into 8th grade at a private school, at the age of 11, it was hell. One of my best friends was homeschooled all the way through 12th, moved constantly, and rarely if ever had any neighbors anywhere near her age. Her mother was a fundamentalist, mentally unstable, and abusive.

Though we both turned out all right, I'll be the first to say that neither of us should have been homeschooled. But that doesn't mean it should be outlawed.

Ultimately, though, we're really just dealing in stereotypes and anecdotes here. Unless one of us finds some statistics or studies or something, this can't really go any further.

Toad · « **Reply #37 on:** July 17, 2010, 11:48:14 PM »

83% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I have a friend who was pulled out of public school in 7th grade to be homeschooled for the rest of is school career (I assume. He moved away after 8th grade and we just recently met eachother again on Facebook). He is a nuresing assistant and has great social skills.

Just throwing that out there.

Jman · « **Reply #38 on:** July 21, 2010, 10:41:23 AM »

I was homeschooled, then went to public school in 9th grade. I like to think I turned out pretty well. I believe what I believe, and I have a good set of friends. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Weegee · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2010, 11:07:29 AM »

Where or how did you make friends before going to public school? Aside from church and neighbours, I can't think of many natural friend-making outlets for homeschooled kids.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #40 on:** July 21, 2010, 11:26:42 AM »

Homeschool groups, music lessons, dancing lessons, etc.
Also dude I hate to tell you this but people had friends before public school was the norm.

nensondubois · « **Reply #41 on:** July 21, 2010, 11:48:36 AM »

I never was home-schooled and look at how I turned out.

The Chef · « **Reply #42 on:** July 21, 2010, 11:55:27 AM »

...uh.....