Print

Author Topic: One set of laws for them... another for us.  (Read 16508 times)

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« on: March 26, 2011, 04:01:32 PM »
So, you're a judge who is about to sentence a man who has raped over 40 young (not of age) girls, keeping many as sex slaves. What's your sentence? Death? Life without parole?

Ah, but wait -- he's a billionaire hedge fund owner! So I guess the right answer is 13 months. Yep. It should be exceedingly trivial to find someone who got more than that for prostitution -- in other words, it's more ok to be a kiddie diddler than to have consensual sex for money, so long as the pedophile is rich.

My point is -- if you think America is anything but a plutocratic oligarchy, you're delusional. Normal people get the book thrown at them for having an ounce of pot. The rich can (possibly literally) get away with murder. And, just wait until the rich actually own the prisons. Sound crazy? It's already happening.

Cliffs: "American Justice System" is an oxymoron. Discuss.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 04:03:17 PM by Insane Steve »
~I.S.~

« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 04:11:43 PM »
"Fair representation is representation according to the amount of influence effectively exerted."~John Rawls

I agree with you one hundred percent. Just look at Buckley v. Valeo. In America, money speaks.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 04:13:52 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 04:28:53 PM »
"In America Everywhere, money speaks."

But yeah. I don't forsee much arguing in this thread.

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 04:33:17 PM »
* Luigison is not delusional.
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 04:36:37 PM »
But yeah. I don't forsee much arguing in this thread.

Turtlekid hasn't responded yet.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 04:47:18 PM »
It's good to know that the Canadian judicial system is free of corporate corruption.

/whoamikidding
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 04:56:36 PM »
Turtlekid may be literally insane, but even he doesn't defend pedophilia...

...right?

« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 05:03:01 PM »
I highly doubt it. But I wager that he'll defend billionaires like the Koch Brothers who are actively working to take away bargaining rights from firemen and teachers.

Double standard lol
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 05:35:50 PM »
I highly doubt Turtlekid would defend a point like those. Now you're just picking on him for no reason.

But I'm the mean-spirited one.

« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 05:45:43 PM »
I highly doubt Turtlekid would defend a point like those.

...I just said that he wouldn't.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 05:50:50 PM »
What's your sentence?
Death, in all likelihood.

Cliffs: "American Justice System" is an oxymoron. Discuss.
Just like pretty much any justice system ever.  I'm not saying it's right, but is it really such a surprise?  And is it really fair to say that the system always fails?  Because it doesn't.  People like to single out America as such a cesspool of greed and imperialism and selfishness and whatever else, but what they fail to realize is that it's still better here than pretty much anywhere else in the world.

I highly doubt it. But I wager that he'll defend billionaires like the Koch Brothers who are actively working to take away bargaining rights from firemen and teachers.

Double standard lol
Taking away rights isn't their motive.  Stopping thugs who cheat, steal, and intimidate their way into power - all under the pretense of bargaining rights - is.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2011, 05:58:29 PM »
But I wager that he'll defend billionaires like the Koch Brothers who are actively working to take away bargaining rights from firemen and teachers.
Agreeing with FDR on the destabilizing effects of giving government workers the same collective bargaining rights as private sector workers = raping 40 children.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2011, 06:19:27 PM »
Stopping thugs who cheat, steal, and intimidate their way into power - all under the pretense of bargaining rights - is.

Then why did he lie about it being a fiscal issue?
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2011, 06:24:21 PM »
...Because it is a fiscal issue?
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2011, 06:33:51 PM »
If there is a budget crisis, why didn't he just cut tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires? Or something else? To me it seems like this is more about union busting than fixing a fiscal problem.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 06:39:19 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 06:38:15 PM »
Because millionaires and billionaires create jobs and sign paychecks.  Their ability to do that is inversely proportional to how heavily they're taxed.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2011, 06:48:50 PM »
No, demand creates jobs. Billionaires do whatever the **** they want with your job, which is why my uncle's got moved overseas.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2011, 07:03:15 PM »
But is that because billionaires are just big jerks who arbitrarily decide to outsource jobs, or because they don't have much of a choice thanks to excessive taxation and regulation?
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2011, 07:12:07 PM »
Yeah, what is there to argue about here, really?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2011, 07:30:48 PM »
But is that because billionaires are just big jerks who arbitrarily decide to outsource jobs, or because they don't have much of a choice thanks to excessive taxation and regulation?

That's a false dichotomy. There are many other reasons for their outsourcing of jobs, man.

Also, I never accused billionaires of outsourcing jobs because they're "big jerks."
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2011, 07:32:37 PM »
Fair enough.  What do you think is the reason?
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2011, 07:35:20 PM »
Some do it for tax breaks. Others do it to enhance innovation. And others do it because they feel they are excessively regulated. But there are reasons for that also.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 07:41:03 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2011, 09:37:28 PM »
Yeah, what is there to argue about here, really?

This thread wasn't so much intended to argue as it was to show exactly how ridiculously the rich can manipulate society.

But now that we're on the topic of unions...

[one moment please]

Also, I used to be a very strong supporter of the death penalty for rape cases -- except then I realised that if the penatly for rape and murder is the same, what's stopping people from killing their victims after they're done?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 09:39:25 PM by Insane Steve »
~I.S.~

« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2011, 10:12:36 PM »
I'm against the death penalty entirely.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2011, 10:47:16 PM »
I still support it in murder cases where there is literally NO doubt the person did it. Like the Tuscon shooting, for instance. I used to be a lot more for it but then I took off the rose-colored glasses and saw just how ridiculously terribly the "justice" system is.
~I.S.~

« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2011, 10:51:38 PM »
I'm against it on the grounds that it seems absurd to kill a person to show other people that killing is wrong.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2011, 11:19:51 PM »
It's more to show other people that murder is wrong.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2011, 11:24:46 PM »
What is murder anyway? I see no fundamental difference between a soldier "killing" an enemy overseas and a husband "murdering" his wife. They both result in the termination of the victim's biological functions, and in both cases the victim did not desire to have them ended.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 11:52:43 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2011, 01:57:17 AM »
What is murder anyway? I see no fundamental difference between a soldier "killing" an enemy overseas and a husband "murdering" his wife. They both result in the termination of the victim's biological functions, and in both cases the victim did not desire to have them ended.

And I actually agree with this -- there's no difference here. War (exception: WWII, and maybe the American Revolution) is bull[dukar]. Especially the two wars we have now, which are for all intents and purposes purely for profit nowadays. And, again, the rich profit off the blood of everyone else.

I'm referring to a person killing an innocent, and a person who killed said innocent being killed. I see a difference, I suppose you do not. Honestly the death penalty is like the only social issue I'm not obscenely left of center on so I feel weird being on the "right-wing" side of it.

And that's part of why I started this thread, also -- there's discussion on the death penalty, and unions (I'll get to this later, I have a fairly long-ish opinion which can be summarised to "I think in an ideal world union membership should be 100% voluntary, but in this world that's equivalent to unions just not existing altogether and I feel the needs of the people are more important than the needs of the very select elite.") -- so despite my OP not being particularly debatable there's debate nonetheless.

Isn't politics awesome? ... wait no it isn't :(
~I.S.~

« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2011, 03:21:17 AM »
I just dislike killing in general. We're in the middle of a vast, cold, uncaring universe. The planet we inhabit is fairly small and could be swept away by a black hole as soon as tomorrow.

And yet some people want to spend their time killing others. This to me is the most disgusting aspect of humankind.

I'm referring to a person killing an innocent, and a person who killed said innocent being killed. I see a difference, I suppose you do not.

It's true that society has an interest in preventing a person from engaging in the harming of an innocent. But the mere fact that all of us, no matter how saintly, must surrender life in due time makes me hesitant to support such a measure.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 04:57:11 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2011, 08:46:43 AM »
I think the death penalty should only be used as an option presented to those who are going to serve a life sentence(s).
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

coolkid

  • Totally Not Banned
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2011, 11:27:28 AM »
What is murder anyway? I see no fundamental difference between a soldier "killing" an enemy overseas and a husband "murdering" his wife. They both result in the termination of the victim's biological functions, and in both cases the victim did not desire to have them ended.

When a soldier kills another, he's fighting for other people as well. He's fighting for a cause. (Well, usually.) To murder your wife can pretty much only be out of selfishness purely, even if in both cases the murder probably didn't think of the suffering the victim's family would endure.

This is total BS, though.
Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind!

« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2011, 12:29:35 PM »
He's fighting for a cause. (Well, usually.)

Yeah okay. So that makes it totally okay right?
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2011, 01:45:32 PM »
Yeah okay. So that makes it totally okay right?

What about killing in self-defense? Or for an objectively good cause like freedom or liberation?

(In before someone argues against the existence of objective goodness, by the way.)
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2011, 03:00:17 PM »
coolkid came closest to the mark.  Killing is never pretty, and it often is done for evil reasons.  But it is necessary when done to preserve or defend life or freedom.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2011, 04:07:09 PM »
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or in the holy name of liberty or democracy?"~Gandhi

Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2011, 04:22:18 PM »
That depends on who wins.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2011, 05:17:14 PM »
At the risk of inciting Godwin's Law, what if the Allies had taken Gandhi's stance during World War II?
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2011, 07:27:37 PM »
What if Hitler had taken Gandhi's stance?

Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2011, 08:15:06 PM »
Then everythikng would have been fine and dandy. But when evil will stop at nothing short of death, war becomes necessary.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2011, 01:33:42 AM »
...What have I done?
~I.S.~

« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2011, 02:12:35 AM »
No, I'm done. At this point it's analogous to two brick walls staring at each other.

Also, I apologize for arguing with people on this forum because quite frankly I'm terrible at it.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2011, 09:27:04 AM »
No you're not.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2011, 09:43:58 PM »
Yes he is
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2011, 09:47:44 PM »
You're both equally absurd to assert that you know.

lol
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2011, 12:36:19 AM »
Quote from: Norman Schwarzkopf
A professional soldier understands that war means killing people, war means maiming people, war means families left without fathers and mothers. All you have to do is hold your first dying soldier in your arms, and have that terribly futile feeling that his life is flowing out and you can't do anything about it. Then you understand the horror of war. Any soldier worth his salt should be antiwar. And still, there are things worth fighting for.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

A

« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2011, 06:24:39 PM »
If Hitler had been a pacifist, I imagine he'd be a very frustrated individual. He'd want to kill people, but he wouldn't allow himself to. Tons of internal conflict.

That could actually be an interesting novel, maybe. Or not.
"I was going to post and say "I have one of those!" because I recognized the hair immediately, but then the rest of the pic loaded and I nearly spit my drink out."
1-800-COLLECT: SAVE A BUCK OR TWO!!

Print