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Author Topic: Achievements  (Read 7159 times)

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« on: February 22, 2009, 05:40:43 PM »
(Note: I'm going to use Spore as an example throughout this post, since the PC game has 102 of the dang things and will almost certainly get more when Galactic Adventures is released.)

Achievements are everywhere nowadays (except the Wii). You've got your Gamerscore on Xbox Live, your Trophies on PS3, and several systems on PC - even Flash games have jumped on the bandwagon.

I think that achievements, when properly balanced, are one of the best things in gaming today. By "balanced," I mean, for example, that you shouldn't get an achievement for buying a game (Eternity's Child, lolololol) or completing a simple goal in a game's story mode (finishing the Cell Stage in Spore), but you shouldn't have to play the game in a completely unfun way to earn one, either (Eternity's Child, lolololololololololololol). As far as points received for achievements go, I don't think there should be points awarded unless they actually do something (such as in Spore's Space Stage, which has specialized badges - mostly separate from the game's achievement system - that grant points required to reach higher Master Badge levels; Spore Creatures takes this to a higher level by having you trade in badge points for special creature parts and weird cheats like big head mode). Achievements that do something (Team Fortress 2's class achievements, required to unlock new weaponry) are better than regular achievements, but must still be balanced - I'm not going to play through a game on its hardest difficulty using only, say, a super-weak melee weapon, to unlock a super-powerful melee weapon that can only be used on a completed file. (In the other direction, TF2 has several achievements that are overly easy to earn, and the new Scout set will add more to that group.)

I also hate the idea of secret achievements such as those seen in Guitar Hero: World Tour. What the heck?

What do you guys think of achievements in video games?

Captain Jim

  • TwinklyMuffin
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 06:27:10 PM »
ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!



No! I don't want that!

« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 06:33:55 PM »
Achievements are awesome. The real achievements are on the xbox 360, everyone else is a poser. I like TF2 achievements because you can unlock stuff, creating even more incentive to get them.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 07:55:28 PM »
I think Achievements are mostly stupid. Also, did 360 have achievements before Steam and stuff did?
That was a joke.

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 08:16:54 PM »
Pretty sure 360 called them achievements first (and yes, theirs were around before those found on Steam, which were introduced with the Orange Box). The concept has been around much longer than the name.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 04:46:19 PM »
Achievements are great because they make me feel like I'm worth something, and that maybe, just maybe, there is a glimmer of hope that one day, I will be loved by another person.
every

« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 06:35:09 PM »
My achievement was beating Cave Story last week. Let's just say the ending was great. And the final boss battle was really hard. But I did it. Now, a few days after I beat "Hard Mode" I started a new game and saved it (crazy, right?) My mission for this new game: Beat it without grabbing a single life capsule. It was brutal. I must've died like...a lot. Now, this time I make it to Misery and she says something totally different and I quote "Hee hee hee...my, don't you look peculiar."  Anyway, I beat the game (again). So today, heh, I'm playing "Hard mode" with just three  heart points. Wish me luck.
"It's vital to reflect occasionally on whether one is overdoing whatever it is one person is doing." ~Toadsworth

« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 06:36:21 PM »
Achievements would be cool if you actually got something for getting a set number of points.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2009, 07:30:58 PM »
I think the only game I've ever played that had Achievements (per se) was Metroid Prime 3. However, the ones that weren't automatically doled out for beating bosses either had no rhyme or reason to when you got them or applied to some sort of subtle QTE in the first ten minutes. Also, considering Nintendo has done jack and [dukar]e to promote its online, I find it interesting that a good half of the unlockables are unobtainable unless you send some sort of... I don't know, achievement message to a friend that also has the game.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 10:13:35 PM »
Re: the last three posts in reverse order...

Those aren't anything like achievements.
Read the thread. Read the first post.
Not what we're talking about.

Something else I neglected to mention: achievements that:

- give rewards for some outside thing requiring a password to be entered
- aren't visible by other players
- are literally impossible to obtain due to no one else on Earth having a copy of the game (multiplayer achievement)

suck. I'm speaking of that eternally-[darn]ed ******* child of Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords and Reversi, Neopets Puzzle Adventure.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 05:40:44 AM »
My favorite achievements are the crazy, convoluted multiplayer ones. Crap like "beat Hard mode in single player" or "beat level 2 with only your pistol" require little imagination to think up. But something like "Get killed in a deathmatch game by having an enemy player throw a health kit at the back of your head while your health is above 80%" is awesome, since it's so ridiculously specific. Getting the little bloopy bleepy achievement-unlocked sound is more satisfying when it happens out of the blue. Ditto for viral achievements.
every

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 10:18:54 AM »
I like them. They're a good way to tell how much a person has really played a game (as opposed to a time that just tells you how long it's been running). I especially like them when they actually do give rewards--some of Dead Rising's achievements go hand-in-hand with unlockable weapons and clothes and stuff.

The achievements are probably the most boring part of Mirror's Edge though. Complete chapter one, complete chapter two, etc. Not that it needs good achievements to be a fantastic game.

Brawl sort of has them with that Challenge Wall. Too bad they had to give the nubs an easy way out with those hammers, and none of them are cool things like "Redirect R.O.B.'s laser around four times and hit him with it" or "Meteor Smash a player into a Pitfall." I'm still picking up those stickers for my last challenge box to open... and then oh, how I can brag about clearing that wall without using a single hammer.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 10:21:07 AM by Bird Person »
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 08:08:03 PM »
Remember Kirby's Air Ride? That had a Challenge board like the one in Brawl, except it's challenges were waaay more off-the-wall and yielded better rewards. Plus there were more of them, enough to have three separate boards for each mode. Kept me busy for quite some time even though the game is really simple to learn. Definitely need more games with that kind of thing.

« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 08:11:09 PM »
I sort of like the idea of achievements being for better weapons/vehicles/ect..

Having only played a handfull games that I can think of that had achievements or challenges (Kirby's Air Ride, Brawl..) I really don't know that much about them (the achievements themselves, not the games I just listed..)
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 09:09:06 PM »
ETC NOT ECT
ETC NOT ECT
IT'S "AND SO ON" NOT "GHOSTLY"

BP, do you mean you get the rewards for a set number of Achievements (a la TF2) or receiving Achievements coincides with certain rewards?
Also, there are plenty of achievements for playing a game for a set amount of time.

Glorb, I didn't mean that multiplayer achievements are a bad thing, and I too think achievements like the one you described are awesome - as long as they're not secret. Seriously, what the heck, Neversoft and Maxis (yes, Spore has them too)?
I meant that achievements like "win a multiplayer battle" (again talking about that Neopets game, specifically the DS version because I don't know about the achievements on PC or Wii) are pointless, doubly so if they aren't visible by other players (for example, on a DS game), and triply so if they're impossible to get (no single-card multiplayer [a poor design decision I've always disliked for most DS games]).

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2009, 09:12:20 PM »
I'm not sure that lack of single-card multiplayer is a design decision. Considering it now though, I guess it could be a ploy to charge more money.
That was a joke.

« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2009, 01:17:18 PM »
I like achievements because in they can give the player more to do in a game where it would otherwise be just "oh, I beat the game, time to move on eto another one". This way, the gamer has more to do in a single game, and gives them more time in a game (which helps when you're waiting to earn enough money to afford a new game).
I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants.
 - A. Whitney Brown

Girls are always running through my mind. They don't dare walk.
 - Andy Gibb

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2009, 07:33:58 PM »
Well, I just remembered the other day, I actually have played a game with true-blue Achievements (well, not the 360 ones, but you know what I mean): LittleBigPlanet.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2009, 10:32:44 PM »
Saying that Wii games are devoid of achievements isn't entirely true -- SSBB has over 100, you know.

What I find infuriating is when games include achievements and unlockables which require external functions that not all gamers have access to, such as having to visit another person's town to unlock Nookington's in Animal Crossing: Wild World. Wi-fi is NOT a given for all gamers, Nintendo.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2009, 11:35:02 PM »
But they're aiming to make it one!
That was a joke.

« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2009, 03:44:08 PM »
...True, but such is wishful thinking. I live in the capitol city of the wrold's second-largest nation, and our house only became eligible for any sort of broadband internet hardly a year ago.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2009, 04:14:11 PM »
Almost two months later, I have new stuff to add to my previous thoughts regarding Achievements.

- Steam's Achievement system is still really buggy. I've heard about stuff going on with the newest Team Fortress 2 update (which also removes the prerequisite of a certain number of Achievements in order to unlock weapons) where people have gotten Achievements they hadn't earned. Also, I've received Explodonator and Ask Me About Mustache Mode (from Plants vs. Zombies) a few times each.

- Continuing with this train of thought, the last three games I bought on Steam (Defense Grid: The Awakening, Gravitron 2, and Plants vs. Zombies) all have Achievements, continuing a trend I hope catches on with more developers. Furthermore, they have the kinds of Achievements that can be earned through normal gameplay (though usually they require some ability, like hypnotizing a lead dancer zombie to earn the Walk This Way Achievement in Plants vs. Zombies or reflecting a shot back at a turret to earn an Achievement in Gravitron 2) rather than the kind that you have to go out of the way to earn.

- Valve earned an Achievement the other day. It's the only way they'll learn.

I'm still a fan of the concept of Achievements, and still stand by the opinion that Neopets Puzzle Adventure has one of the worst applications of Achievements I've ever seen (in the DS version, anyway). Furthermore, Eternity's Child, lolololololololololol.

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2010, 07:54:33 AM »

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