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Author Topic: Super Mario 64 on N64 need help!!!!  (Read 28135 times)

« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2008, 12:59:39 PM »
Hey, if you can't provide information to rebuke it, then you have no right to act sarcastically.

If you really feel passionate about there not being a God, put as much time and effort into it as I did.

God did not create Himself. He was always there. He is not bound by the rules of our reality, which states that we must be created before we can exist. Think of it as a video game. We are not bound by the rules of our creation's (Mario, Sonic, etc.) reality, but they are. It's true that Mario and Sonic could not exist without us creating them, but God's reality is reality that does not require Him to be created because His reality is the final reality. Really, I stated all this and more in my last post, yet I find myself repeating it anyway. If you don't believe it and don't want to debate it, fine. But if you do want to debate, put some time and effort into it.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 01:05:29 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2008, 01:06:33 PM »
If you really feel passionate about there not being a God, put as much time and effort into it as I did.
Honestly, I'm not really passionate about anything. But, I mean, you can believe whatever you want if it helps you get through the day.

Quote
God did not create Himself. He was always there. He is not bound by the rules of our reality, which states that we must be created before we can exist. Think of it as a video game. We are not bound by the rules of our creation's (Mario, Sonic, etc.) reality, but they are.
Yeah, but for Mario to exist, Shiguru Miyamoto's got to be born.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2008, 01:10:13 PM »
Yeah, but for Mario to exist, Shiguru Miyamoto's got to be born.

You probably didn't catch my edit. For Mario to exist, Miyamoto must be created, it's true. But like I said, God does not need to be created because creation is a rule of our reality, not God's. In a sense, He created the ability to create.

I respect your beliefs, I just thought it was high time to challenge them. That's not a problem, is it?
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2008, 01:14:24 PM »
I just realized I kind of promised not to get into theological debates... oh, well, I've been a hypocrite all my life... might as well not stop now.

What catagory is the Bible under in libraries? Reference? Religion? Adult Sci-Fi?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2008, 01:16:37 PM »
This debate isn't about religion though. This debate is about whether or not the universe was intelligently created or made from nothing. What does the Bible being in libraries have to do with anything anyway? That doesn't prove, nor does it provide evidence against, the universe being created by God. I assume it's under religion, but even if it isn't, that doesn't prove anything. I suppose it could be used as an insult (if it's in Adult Si-Fi) to those who are religious, but that's about it.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 01:25:43 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

megamush

  • Infinite member error
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2008, 01:24:29 PM »
I just realized I kind of promised not to get into theological debates... oh, well, I've been a hypocrite all my life... might as well not stop now.

What catagory is the Bible under in libraries? Reference? Religion? Adult Sci-Fi?
I think that its reference
What ever you do don't press Ctrl-W

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2008, 01:42:36 PM »
God did not create Himself, because He was never created. He has no beginning, because for there to be a time when He didn't exist, there must be a timeflow for Him. Since He created time, however, He cannot be bound by time.

(Note: a decent grasp of geometry will help greatly with the rest of this post.)

Think about it this way: if space and time are the same thing scientifically, and God is omnipresent (in all places at the same time), then He is also, in limited human language, in all times at the same time.

Imagine, for a moment, that our world is only a two-dimensional plane, and that time is the third dimension.

this is time.
  |
 \/

  ^
  | - moar future
  |
  | - 2020
  |
  |  - lol2012
  |
_|_ <- this is us
  |
  | - 1999 (Pepsi girl commercials)
  |
  | - 1996 (Fresh Prince gets cancelled)
  |
  | - 1989 (I'm born)
  \/

The plane that represents our world is constantly moving through time, but only taking up a single point in time at a... time. If we were 3D, however, we could take up multiple points along the time axis, just as we can take up multiple points in height and width. That, compressed into graspable terms, is God. God extends infinitely across all axes. Asking who created God is exactly the same as asking where a line ends.

<-------------->

When we draw it with those arrows and say that it "goes on forever," it really doesn't do justice to the infinity of the line. Those are just analogies based on the way we draw and on the properties of limited line segments. In reality, that line doesn't just "go on forever," because there's no "going" involved -- it already exists at every point on that axis. It doesn't have a starting point because that's just not the way it works.

Similarly, saying that God is "eternal" or "never-ending" doesn't do full justice to His nature, and are just analogies based on mortal lifespans. God isn't never-ending simply because He lives a really long time, He is never-ending because beginnings and endings are simply non-sequitors when it comes to Him.

I know this is probably hard to grasp, but think of how difficult it would for a line segment to understand a sphere. Because the line segment can only see what's on the plane, he can only see the infinitely thin portion of the sphere that intersects with the plane at any one time - namely, different sized circles or a single point. However, even though all the line segment can see and fathom is two-dimensional shapes, the sphere is still three dimensions.

In a similar way, God may make Himself known to us by intersecting with our plane at various points in time, but that doesn't mean He is bound by time the way we are, restricted to a single point in time.

(BTW, thanks for the reciprocal compliment.)
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

megamush

  • Infinite member error
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2008, 01:51:42 PM »
this is all starting to get a little confusing!
What ever you do don't press Ctrl-W

« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2008, 01:57:39 PM »
Even when I provide as much info as possible in several posts, CrossEyed7 does it better in only one.

Basically everything I have stated is reinforced excellently in CrossEyed7's chart and post.

I really feel like there isn't anything else to say. I've been sitting at my computer for quite a while now, so if you still want to debate the subject, or think you've got some info to argue against what we've stated, send me a PM or something.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 02:02:48 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Kuromatsu

  • 黒松
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2008, 04:41:46 PM »
Well the problem with these Theological Statements for me is:

Suppose of if a person was not religious and had found different results for time and space? Of course these statements make perfect sense for the set religion. Just what bothers me seeing that time is infinite, there are also going to be an infinite amount of religions, and not all of them can be right at the same time.

« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2008, 04:57:45 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the statement.

You said time was infinite, correct? Time is not infinite. It exists within the universe, and the universe did not exist until something happened. Whether that be God's work (in my opinion, it was) or just some random event is up to the person.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Kuromatsu

  • 黒松
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2008, 05:02:30 PM »
Time is not infinite.
Are you saying that there will be a "period" when Time will not exist?

« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2008, 05:05:36 PM »
Time cannot be measured without the universe because it exists within the universe. If the universe came to an end, then yes, time would cease to exist. To end the universe would mean to end everything because the universe is everything in our reality. Thus time is not infinite, nor has it ever existed before the universe.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 05:08:38 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2008, 06:12:44 PM »
Thus, your statement "before the universe" is contradictory.
That was a joke.

« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2008, 06:49:59 PM »
How so? Time really does exist within the universe. When I said before, I meant the universe would need to have been created, then time would exist. The universe is everything. Time cannot exist in nothing because nothing is nothing.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

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