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Miscellaneous => General Chat => Not at the Dinner Table => Topic started by: Yoshisaurus Rex on March 31, 2006, 09:48:07 AM

Title: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on March 31, 2006, 09:48:07 AM
In the topic “A Survey This Is” I’ve had a lot of fun talking about beliefs and learning what other people believe.  This got me to thinking... what else do people believe in?  The paranormal?  The supernatural?  The weird, crazy, or seemingly impossible? What exactly do you believe in and why?

Now I give you the opportunity to talk about which of the following things and others you believe. Tell stories of what you’ve heard, why you think it’s real or not, and anything else you can think of.  This topic isn’t for making fun of people (most of you already know that though), so please be careful of what you say and respect other’s opinions.  You can question them but try not to redicule them.

As for myself, I believe in most of the things on this list (as of the first time I wrote this) and think that either people are telling the truth, or are experiencing something that isn’t "normal" but might now be what they think it is.  I’ve talked about my religious beliefs in “A Survey This Is” but I also have another belief about the world and this one might blow your mind out.  Okay.  I believe... that a few dinosaurs may still be alive today.  There, I said it and I can imagine if you are ROFL or WTD-ing.  I know how crazy it sounds, but I have a reason for thinking this and I’ll tell you why. 

Many honest people including scientists have claimed to see large creatures while exploring hidden parts of the world (like Asia, Africa, and sometimes America) and some of these creatures match the description of dinosaurs.  I’m sure that some were lying or made a hoax just to try and become famous or something, but I also think that some of these people have to be telling the truth.  I also know that everyone says that dinosaurs went extinct, but maybe some of them survived somehow and are hiding in the world.  The Loch Ness monster, Mokele-Mbembe, Kongamato, and others... is it possible?!  Go ahead and laugh if you want but I’m going to trust the accounts of some of these “witnesses” and dare to believe what many dino lovers would only dream of. (But I don't believe in the Yoshisaurus Rex, so don't worry about that XD)

So anyway... what do you believe? Let me know the other stuff I forget too.  I didn't include God because that's what the other topic was about.

If you want to hear about more strange things, you can go to newanimal.org and other sites about crytpozoology and stuff.  If any Bible readers want to learn about some real strange stuff in the Bible, read Job 40:15-24 and chapter 41, and Genesis 6:1-4. 

Edit: I sure wish we had an "alphabetical order" box so I could keep my poll in order. DX If I add more options and rearrange things that already have votes for them, will that screw up everything or do the votes automatically stay with the right words?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: dude677 on March 31, 2006, 12:18:37 PM
You forgot two things:
Santa Claus and
Chewbacca.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Insane Steve on March 31, 2006, 12:45:36 PM
i font belive it

No, seriously, I think I'm leaning towards the "none of those" option that's not there. The closest would be aliens; however, I'm extrapolating that as "any life form not living on Earth" -- which doesn't necessarily have to be complex, just existent.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on March 31, 2006, 01:16:01 PM
Well, I put down angels, Heaven, Hell, and I forgot to say demons, but demons too.  These are all real to me because I am a Christian, and as such I believe in these things. 
But, I also checked off aliens.  This is because I find it extremely hard to believe that there are other planets, nay, galaxies out there, and we still remain the only life forms.  I'm not arrogant enough to say that only Earth holds beings capable of moving, thinking, and all-around living.  There's too much out there we haven't explored to jump to that conclusion. 
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Vidgmchtr on March 31, 2006, 01:26:26 PM
I only chose Aliens, because, come on, there HAS to be another planet out there that supports and has life as advanced or even more advanced than this one.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on March 31, 2006, 02:38:19 PM
Interesting and awesome thread idea, YSR!

Chewbacca, WTD? What about fairies? Or witches? Or vampires? Or supernatural occurences (although this poll seems to be more places and beings, not events)?--like miracles, prophetic visions/dreams, telepathic connections, uhh... actually, that's a really, really wide/broad topic. Never mind. XD

As for me, I completely believe there are angels, demons, Heaven, and uhh.. the "bad place."
I have a hard time believing there are aliens, but I wouldn't call it ridiculous or unbelievable or out of the question.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on March 31, 2006, 03:49:02 PM
Angels, Heaven, Hell. Satan is merely a fallen angel, not a demon.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on March 31, 2006, 04:31:49 PM
You spelled leprechauns wrong, just to let you know.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on March 31, 2006, 04:32:04 PM
I missed the Angels box. There may also be demons, but they aren't torturing me... right now, anyway.
Leprechauns.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on March 31, 2006, 04:39:01 PM
Demon: 1) An evil supernatural being; a devil.

Regardless of whether or not fallen angels are classified as demons, demons are mentioned in the Bible, Koop.

Edit: Hmm, Satan could be another one added to the list, YSR.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on March 31, 2006, 04:42:48 PM
Yep, in Revelation as a symbol.
The other referances to demons are just the other falen angels along with Satan that seek the ruin of souls. SO, I guess I should have voted with demons, but, similar thing.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on March 31, 2006, 04:52:39 PM
Not necessarily. I don't think I've come across anything (Biblical or reference-wise) that specifically says fallen angels are demons or demons are fallen angels. I always kind of assumed they were one and the same, but maybe they're actually not.

Biblical references to/about demons (http://www.biblegateway.com/topical/topical_resource.php?source=1&tid=1383)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on March 31, 2006, 05:05:15 PM
Hmm, my only problem with this is that God never created anything that was, at its core, evil. Evil came into the world through free choice. Therefore, I have a hard time believing that God would create evil creatures. So, I just think that these demons are the spirits of the fallen angels, and Satan, perhaps when they possess people, or another name for these fallen angels. THat is my reasoning. Rather non-important, however.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on March 31, 2006, 05:10:12 PM
What right do they have to exist if no one's ever seen them?

The only thing I have to believe in is myself.

...I wonder if that could be a good signature...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on March 31, 2006, 05:41:09 PM
I believe in Heaven, Hell, demons, angels and UFO's. Heaven and Hell, because that's where we go, demons and angels, the minions and servants of the great powers, and UFO's, because not all flying object's are from outer space.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Ultima Shadow on March 31, 2006, 06:09:01 PM
Heaven, Hell, Angels, Demons, UFOs and Aliens. I'm a Christian, therefore I believe in the first four, and I believe that the Bible is accurate. Also, I think UFOs and Aliens do exist, because while the odds of finding aliens is slim, I think that it's a pretty unlikely thing that Earth is the only planet in the whole universe that contains life.

Meaning... I agree with Vid, Sapphira and Koopaslaya.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on March 31, 2006, 06:19:34 PM
UFOs can't exist because by the time you say "It's a UFO!!" It's been identified as a UFO, eliminating the U part. FOs exist.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on March 31, 2006, 06:21:37 PM
Sapphira: Thanks a lot!  I thought it was a good idea too, when I first thought of it.  I'm going to add a lot more stuff later (I also thought of vampires) as soon as I figure out how to change the poll without wrecking anything, if that's possible.  Shooby dooby dooby, I'm a clueless newby!

That question of why God created evil has also confused me too.  However, Lucifer didn't start as evil but just an angel.  I think the Bible said somewhere that he was the most beautiful one and he wanted to be God and for everyone to worship him, so God cast him out of Heaven.  However, Lucifer somehow took 1/3 of all the angels with him and they became demons (pretty freaky, huh?).  All of this stuff was reinacted in a play I was in once and it was the coolest thing.  The guy playing God stood on a small balcony while the angels (including me, as one of my parts) stayed on the ground and worshipped him.  But then Satan walked up to the balcony, poninted his finger at God, and climbed up there with him and pointed for everyone to worship him (this was a mime play so no one ever said anything).  Then God literally "shoved" him off the balcony and he dropped off to the floor on a mattress.  Then... a boatload of other cool stuff happened and I don't feel like telling you now, sorry.

To me, I think some UFOs are machines that the government is building and testing while others are actually real alien ships.  My theory of the aliens, is also something that sounds positively rediculous, which is that aliens could be demons in disguise and trying to make people stop believing in God (as one just thing).  I'm glad that I've never been ubducted though!

Btw, if there are any Bible readers out there who want to solve a mind-boggling mystery that has something to do with this topic, read Job 40:15-24 and chapter 41.  Holy smokes, it's the behemoth vs. the leviathan!!! O___O And then check out Genesis 6:1-4 for... the nephilim!!! X___X
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on March 31, 2006, 06:29:28 PM
Edit Poll > Add Option (and fill in the empty box) (repeat step as needed), change "Maximum votes per user."
You can also edit any of the options; it won't change the results.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on March 31, 2006, 06:36:40 PM
Thank you.  Hey, when you said witches did you mean the kind that fly on broomsticks or just those who practice witchcraft?  I know for sure there are still those kind of witches around today.

Edit: Okay, I added more and moved "None of the above" and then all the votes for that went to 0.  So I guess I can't move anything, can I? >_< Plus, the "maximum votes" box isn't there so I can't change the maximum number of votes and it stays at 17 all the time (even though I started with 100).  Also, if I leave that area blank will it automatically let people vote as much as they want?  And what exactly does Lock Poll do?  I can't work this crazy thing!! *screams for one minute and three seconds*
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on March 31, 2006, 08:02:48 PM
Hahaha...one minute and three seconds...
Anyway, I just believe that a fallen angel is another term for demon because once an angel has fallen from heaven it becomes a terrible creature in Hell (or "the bad place") known as a demon.  So, Satan is technically a demon also, so believing in demons may already mean that you believe in Satan, but not necessarily because at the same time you could believe that demons do exist, but there is simply no such thing as Satan, which is not what I believe, therefore saying that I do believe there is a Satan who is a demon, but there are also other demons that followed him to Hell ("the bad place") because of their lack of apparent loyalty and misguidance....unfortunately...
But there are also angels, who remained loyal to God through it all.  :)

And I don't think anyone's bored enough to sit around and vote a ton of times on one poll, so I can't see that being much of a problem.  Oh, and I dunno what a Lock Poll is.  I'm not good with all of this Poll mumbo jumbo.
 
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Ultima Shadow on March 31, 2006, 08:06:08 PM
It's so no-one can vote in the poll, but posting is still permitted. The poll can be reopened.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on March 31, 2006, 08:22:13 PM
Fixed, YSR. Also made it so people can remove/change their votes. "Moving" categories doesn't work; it just changes the names of the categories to something else.

As for witches, it can be whatever anyone defines as a witch. I believe/know there are people who practice witchcraft (I suppose it would mean "successfully" or something), but I don't believe in the flying-on-brooms stereotypical witches like those in cartoons.

Then again, I also believe there's Satan, but I totally do not believe/accept that he's a red "devil" with a tail and horns and pitchfork, and he does NOT reside in/rule over "heck" (he doesn't want to be there, just like no one else would want to be there; he roams the earth)--all as portrayed by cartoons and such.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on March 31, 2006, 10:01:02 PM
Thanks again, Sapphira!  I agree that the devil probably wouldn't look like that, but probably look very beautiful to fool us easier.  My pastor once said something funny.  "The devil won't show up at your front door with a pitch fork and wearing a T-shirt that says 'I'm the devil and I'm here to tempt you!' " Heh heh.

TBT: Yep.  I know that it says in Revelation at the end of the world he is sent to (the bad place) and trapped there for a thousand years, released again for some reason I don't know, and then sent back there forever.  Hallelujah!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on March 31, 2006, 10:02:49 PM
This topic is another religion debate.
Also, the poll needs WAY more choices.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on March 31, 2006, 10:06:59 PM
Sorry, that wasn't my main intention for this thread.  When people ask questions about some religious things I can't help but start talking about stuff. (But it is pretty hard to avoid that when you talk about beliefs).  I'll get a bunch more choices soon!

Does anyone think I should reset the votes since I messed up a few things and this topic just started?  I don't care if no one else does.

Edit: The reason I replied so fast is because I've been editing things too much again. And talking way too much too. >_>
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on March 31, 2006, 10:21:21 PM
Also, the poll needs WAY more choices.


Put like Pagan Gods up there or somethng. It's a lost religion, but still..........
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Glorb on April 01, 2006, 02:36:16 PM
I think the UFO choice is somewhat unfitting, because UFOs exist, period. However, alien spacecraft may or may not exist (I'll leave that to you). But UFOs - Unidentified Flying Objects - are 100% real.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 01, 2006, 02:58:01 PM
Bird Person: Ha ha!  I didn't get that at first but then later I laughed. "It's a bird!  It's a plane!  It's... a FO!"

Glorb: Oh, I see what you mean.  Like if someone took a large frisby to a country without frisbies and threw it up in the air over a small village, that would be a UFO!  I see.  And that is our science lesson for today, class.  For homeword, please buy a large frisby and throw it around town until someone calls it a UFO. XD -_-_-_-_-_-_- (((.)))

Anyone have any more suggestions for options?  I'm still trying to think of more stuff but it ain't easy.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 01, 2006, 03:00:04 PM
What happen's when you die?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 01, 2006, 03:35:36 PM
Luigi in SM64? I believe.....that he's in the DS version!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kojinka on April 01, 2006, 05:11:09 PM
What about dragons or tanukis or phoenixes or pegasis(sp?)?

I believe magic may have existed at one time.

I believe there are aliens.  as stated The universe is infinite in size; there's bound to be other planets that can support life.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 01, 2006, 05:13:35 PM
Aliens...Maybe...But they will never get here unless they can go faster than the speed of light.

What excactly would aliens be? Green Things? or completely diferrent organisims?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on April 01, 2006, 05:18:34 PM
WHO voted Luigi in SM64?! It's NOT TRUE!!!!  *has a seizure
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kojinka on April 01, 2006, 05:32:25 PM
Didn't Nintendo say Luigi was in the game at a stage of development?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 01, 2006, 07:24:10 PM
Aliens have not been found even looking beyond our own galaxy. Even if they were real, it would take them an unbelievable ammount of time to reach us. That is, of course, if they were more advanced then everything. Has anyone ever thought of life dumber than us out there?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Pt_Peach on April 01, 2006, 07:29:10 PM
Hmmm, I believe in:

~Heaven
~Hell
~Satan
~Angels
~Demons
~Miracles
~Fate
~Prophetic dreams/visions

I used to believe in:

~Bigfoot
~Atlantis (I'm doubting it a bit, now)
~Luigi in SM64 (I tried getting him once)
~Sesame Street (It's says Street!)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Jman on April 01, 2006, 07:42:37 PM
I believe that somewhee in this world, there's a girl named Jenny with the phone number 867-5309.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 01, 2006, 07:58:31 PM
Haha, did you know that they had to delete that phone number from every area code in the United States, since so many people would call it?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: MaxVance on April 01, 2006, 08:46:01 PM
Actually, not all of them. Some guy went and called all the 867-5309s and made this list (http://www.danstheman.com/Jenny.htm).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Jman on April 01, 2006, 11:04:47 PM
Oh this is funny...

867-5309 is the number of a plumbing company in my state.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 02, 2006, 12:39:49 AM
Some more things I thought of that could be added:

Jesus (as God/God's Son/the Messiah) (This expands the question in the other poll about simply believing in God)
The Rapture
The Apocalypse
Love at first sight
Soul mates
superstition

Hmm, that's all the more I can really think of for now. Everything else seems pretty well-covered.
Might I suggest, though, that you call "pagan gods" something else, like "other gods" or "multiple gods" or something? Pagan seems like it might be a negative term or something. Although I don't know.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Pt_Peach on April 02, 2006, 02:18:56 AM
More things that could be added (continuing Sapphira's list)

~Allah
~Buddha
~Prophets
~Idoltry
~Witchcraft
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 02, 2006, 03:33:26 PM
I don't believe in Withcraft, but I do know there are people who do.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 02, 2006, 04:01:55 PM
~Allah is the same as God, which goes with the other poll.
~Is this questioning Buddha's existence or asking if one deems him as a god or something? Buddha was a real person; I don't think people actually worship him, but rather look up to him or something. I'm not all that sure, though.
~What do you mean by prophets? Like, accurate, successful ones? Wouldn't that go with the "prophetic dreams/visions" option?
~By "idoltry" do you mean believing in its existence (like, of idols), or asking if one is blindly or excessively devoted to something/anything?
~Witchcraft should probably be grouped with/added to the "Witches" option, like as "Witches/witchcraft" (the option can be changed, YSR)

I thought of some other things that could be added:
~Limbo (or any sort of afterlife that's, just, there. Not heaven, not "heck." As opposed to death being the end.)
~Reincarnation
~Fountain of Youth (or something similar/equivalent)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Mr. Wiggles on April 02, 2006, 05:12:09 PM
While I'm not a very religous person, I believe in the existence of Heavon and Hell. I mean, it's a lot better than believing all you have to look forward to after death is a bunch of worms crawling over you. That would suck. Limbo too, but i'm still not quite sure how that would look. It would be pretty hilarious if it was just an endless game of Limbo like in Billy and Mandy.

Also, I can't believe you left this guy off the list:

(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbodyslamming.com%2Fwwe%2Fpics%2Fboogey.jpg&hash=19349448cec2bce26dccf6184f58d416)

For those of you wondering, he's The Boogeyman....and he's coming to get you.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 02, 2006, 05:27:25 PM
Cool somebody else that watches WWE Smackdown.  I guess I'm not the only one.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 02, 2006, 05:40:03 PM
Sapph, "A Buddha is a being (i.e. a human being) who has, through his or her own efforts and wisdom, awoken to the Truth (Dharma) behind appearance, having abandoned and overcome anger, desire and ignorance; attained liberation (moksa) from suffering."

More information here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 03, 2006, 08:53:19 AM
Makin' a list... and editing it twice!  Gon-na find out who's foolish or wise.  YSR is comin'... to town!

In other words, I'll add those things thanks.

Another good question to ask is how the pyramids were built.  I think that regular people such as Egyptian slaves could have done some of the work, but maybe there were a few giants or large creatures that helped them too (like all the weird pictures you see in Egyptian paintings, some could have been real).  People have found large human skeletons in the world I've heard.  Also notice how I didn't say anything about the Bible this time! Even though it does talk about giants and stuff.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 03, 2006, 11:30:30 AM
The only thing that built the pyramids were slaves.  It sounds impossible, I know, but that's how they did it.  They had to do a lot of math calculations though to get everything perfect.  It was a really complicated matter.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Jman on April 03, 2006, 07:02:12 PM
Cool somebody else that watches WWE Smackdown.  I guess I'm not the only one.

I do too.  I even had a story that was a crossover of SSB and WWE.  Not between superstars, I just had Nintendo characters fighting in WWE elements.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 03, 2006, 07:07:01 PM
I believe that watching WWE is a waste of my brain powers.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 03, 2006, 07:19:21 PM
  Also notice how I didn't say anything about the Bible this time! Even though it does talk about giants and stuff.


Ah, Goliath. My favorite story in the Bible.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 03, 2006, 07:27:46 PM
That is a really good story. 
I have a question, If you remove your votes do you get to vote again? Because he added a bunch of things after I voted.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 03, 2006, 07:43:00 PM
The "Giants" in the bible simply refer to large people. Not 100 foot tall monsters.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 03, 2006, 07:44:55 PM
I know but it was still a good story, even if Goliath was 9-10 feet tall.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 03, 2006, 08:18:52 PM
If you remove your votes do you get to vote again?
Yes.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 04, 2006, 09:13:05 AM
Pt_peach: Idolatry is definitely real.  When I used to spend much more time playing video games than I did with God, I was turning them into idols and that's not good at all.  I'm not trying to point fingers or say that playing video games is wrong, but it all just depends on your conscience and motives.

Sapphira: Okay!  I finally got some time to update the list.  I'm glad you mentioned the fountain of youth because I've heard of that before and used to think about it a lot. (and even thought of putting it in a story)

Koopaslaya: In Genesis before the Flood it talks about creatures and giants that were in the land.  I don't know how big they were or if they helped with the pyramids but we don't know, so I'll just wonder about what happened.  I could find the verses pretty quick and quote them here (but no one has to read it).

Genesis 6:1-4 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.  And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with men, for that he also is flesh; yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daugthers of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Those verses have always confused me, because it sounds like angels or demons are marrying humans and their children are turning into strong, legendary people.  This makes me wonder if the story of Hercules could actually be true (with Zeus and his wife as "gods" or giants) and maybe some other legendary creatures.  Doesn't that story talk about gods marrying humans?  Yikes, there could have been a lot of weird stuff going on then! (if it was true)

Sorry I keep talking about the Bible, but it seems like I can't stop thinking about these mysteries.  Maybe I need to become an archeologist or something so the world will get a break from me. XD

Edit: Someone better vote for Mokele-Mbembe or Kongamato!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 04, 2006, 01:36:19 PM
I put the "Rapture", but I don't believe it's the actual name for it.  We Catholics just say it's "The End of the World".  No specific name.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 04, 2006, 04:13:53 PM
But those are two entirely different things.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 04, 2006, 04:27:53 PM
The Rapture (from Wikipedia): "Christians alive before the end of the world will be taken into heaven, and there will be an intermediate time frame where non-Christians will be still left on earth before Christ arrives to set up his earthly kingdom."

You're thinking of the Apocalypse, G-Dawg. Why isn't that added to the list? I know people who believe the Apocalypse will happen, but don't believe in the Rapture (which I don't understand how one could believe one without the other, but that's me).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 04, 2006, 05:31:17 PM
Apocalypse can be taken to mean many different things nowadays, but also, that is actually explained in detail in the Bible, whereas the Rapture, if I am thinking correctly, is not.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 04, 2006, 08:18:05 PM
Well, I can add Apocalypse and other things too if we figured out what they are and if they'll work.  I think this is going to be one unbelievably long list!

Today I found a really cool website (http://www.newanimal.org/) about lots of mysterious creatures and cryptozoologists that search for evidence of their existence.  And since I don't plan on including all of these mysterious things here, you might want to check them out for yourself.  I think that you'll enjoy it as much as I did!

Does anyone know more information about the Hurculese legends or what I said about that passage of Genesis?  I don't have time right now to look for myself, but some of you folks seem to know a lot so maybe you could tell me.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 05, 2006, 03:34:44 PM
You're thinking of the Apocalypse, G-Dawg.

I get really confused about that stuff. My dad is Protestant and my mom is Catholic. So together they have different names for everything.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on April 05, 2006, 07:39:41 PM
Woah.  Hello added options to the list...
Umm...is it possible to edit your votes?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 05, 2006, 07:44:54 PM
Yes, by removing your vote and revoting. Every time YSR edits the poll, for some reason the "Remove Vote" option is removed. Maybe only mods get that option for polls. *Shrugs* Anyway, it's up again.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 05, 2006, 07:46:34 PM
Dang it you beat me to it Sapphira.  I finally had something to tell someone and you beat me.  DANG!!!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on April 05, 2006, 08:11:00 PM
It's her job... here, at least.*imagines a job where you run around telling people useful stuff in real life...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on April 05, 2006, 08:19:20 PM
Thanks, Sapphira.  I just put down Satan and Jesus and all the other stuff I had already voted for.  So, yeah.  I've done my part. 
Oh, and thanks for trying G-Dawg.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 05, 2006, 08:33:44 PM
No prob.

*imagines a job where you run around telling people useful stuff in real life...
They're called counselors and advisors. ;)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 06, 2006, 07:29:09 AM
I don't believe in them. XD
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 06, 2006, 04:08:53 PM
One could argue against the "usefulness" of that "information".
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 06, 2006, 05:36:24 PM
I know.  It's just for fun and a way to learn about more monsters.  Did I ever say it was useful? ;)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 07:26:29 AM
I wasn't talking about yours.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 11:22:36 AM
But you WERE talking about MINE, no?
/me shakes head and sighs
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 05:29:20 PM
If you need an "advisor" for your life, I have to wonder about your ability to survive in any situation at all.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: NintendoExpert89 on April 08, 2006, 06:15:40 PM
One could argue against the "usefulness" of that "information".
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 06:17:04 PM
In all honesty, I think YOU need an advisor, because you obviously don't know how to handle talking with people in a respectful, considerate manner. Go work on not being condescending and rude to everyone, kthx.

Don't make this turn into yet ANOTHER argument, Chup.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 08, 2006, 07:23:53 PM
If you need an "advisor" for your life, I have to wonder about your ability to survive in any situation at all.
That was very offensive. I visit an advisor every week for help, and so does my best friend. I cannot even believe you just said that. Sapphira and NintendoExpert89 are both %100 right. I'm sure you have some sort of doctor that helps you with your mental problems(although mabey not on a schedule). Most of the times, I have no desire to argue with an admin or mod's statement, but this was too far. That was just awful, and I hope you learn of a better way to state your opinion other than a rude, immature way.

I have a spiritual advisor, and he helps me in so many ways that it would be impossible to count them all. He is my only reason my family isn't like the ones in Louisiana, and I believe everything he says.

To be on topic, I do believe in a lot of supernatural occurrences. I'm just waiting for you to say something insulting about my beliefs and religion now, Chupperson.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 08, 2006, 07:31:33 PM
While I don't have a problem with people seeking advice from others, I find it to be a bad Idea to do exactly what someone else says, just pecause they say so. I hardly think that Chup has any problem with people seeking advice with problems. There needs to be some sort of objective truth in what you believe. If an advisor tells me to believe that alagators life in my basement, I shouldn't listen to him/her. However, if I ws having trouble with my friends, and an advisor tells me to do something within reason, I would consider it, but more importantly I would make that important decision on my own. I would consider other's opinions, but not do exactly as they say just because.

I understood his quote to be nothing more than mere advice: don't just live your life as someone's puppet. I still don't think that listening to someone for advice is a bad idea, in fact I would assume that it is a healthy thing to do.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 07:37:01 PM
Koop, you have a good point. Regardless, though, what Chup said was very rude, condescending, and uncalled for.
He's also completely insulting and disregarding the career I'm seriously considering going into (counseling), which I find offensive, as well.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 08, 2006, 07:42:53 PM
Now, come on. I'm sure everyone here has asked for help before. I'd have trouble getting through school if not for my excellent counceler.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 08, 2006, 07:42:59 PM
Counseling, hm? That is very neat, Sapph. I was once considering a career in those fields, as well. In my freshmen year in high school, I took a career test to see what would fit me best, and counseling & psychology came up as a good result. After that, I was talking to my school counselors and parents about it. But then I decided that there is a lot more careers that I would be good in, such as music.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 08:09:30 PM
Koopaslaya was the only one that interpreted my comments correctly.
My actual thought was that if our society has degenerated to the point that people have to go through life seeking step-by-step instructions on how to proceed through their lives and on what decisions to make, then there is really no reason to be around. People are being trained not to have any common sense and no survival instincts.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 08:18:53 PM
You need to choose your words WAAAY more carefully and considerately, then. It's not about what you MEANT; it's about what you SAID.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 08:19:28 PM
And yet, Koopaslaya had no trouble seeing what I meant. Interesting, isn't it?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 08:20:17 PM
Funny how everyone else was offended by it, though. Unless you're implying everyone else is "less intelligent," mm?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 08:23:01 PM
To answer Khold, I don't have any mental problems, and I have a pretty good idea of what's actually happening in my daily life, so I don't need someone there to tell me how to interpret the sensory input being fed into my brain. The only advisor I have is for help knowing about and deciding what classes to take in college.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on April 08, 2006, 08:31:28 PM
Wow, you guys really "blew it up" as the kids say. Chupperson thinks that having someone tell you what to do instead of making your own decisions is not always very good, not that big a deal. Chupperson is an independent thinker, such a view concerning advisors is expected, he's not out to quash anyone's religious beliefs or professional aspirations. So let's all just chill out and drink some Ovaltine, huh?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 08, 2006, 08:39:58 PM
We "know" what Chup thinks, as we established in the past above posts. Again, as we said before, it's completely fine to have your own opinion. But what you say is what is wrong-- not his opinion. He has insulted others of what they do and believe in; he could've just kept that part aside and still state his facts in a respectful way.

I know what you're trying to tell us is good, TEM, but all we want is for him to stop being, must we say again: rude and impolite with his posts. If he can establish this, then everybody can move on.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 08:42:42 PM
This whole topic has gone out of hand. I fail to see what Chup's original response about "usefulness" had to do with what was being talked about. None of what's being discussed now has to do with what I was talking about originally.

It's her job... here, at least.*imagines a job where you run around telling people useful stuff in real life...

They're called counselors and advisors. ;)

COUNSELORS AND ADVISORS TELL PEOPLE USEFUL STUFF IN REAL LIFE!
That doesn't mean people are required to listen to them, but they're there to give direction when one needs help and seeks it. This includes school counselors; their job is to tell "people useful stuff in real life."

Whatever Chup says he implied by what he said didn't really mean anything to what I was saying. All it did was offend people. I never ONCE implied that people "always need direction about everything because they're helpless and clueless about life in general."  Either way, you're trying to make me look stupid. I'm sick of it.

Jeez Louise.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 08:51:52 PM
I have this incredible urge to be all ridiculous and say something like "the fact that you think I am trying to make you look stupid hints at some hidden fear that you may be incompetent" or something similar. Not that that's what I actually think, but it's tempting because it's such an easy target, and because it's a completely false accusation. Anyway, I personally thought I was being pretty tactful in my original statement. I would not find the advice of a counselor to be useful, because I am capable of discerning needs and making decisions on my own, without the aid of a paid professional. I don't think people should need to be told Useful Stuff, I think if they're smart they should be able to figure it out on their own.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 08, 2006, 08:58:44 PM
The only advisor I have is for help knowing about and deciding what classes to take in college.

I would not find the advice of a counselor to be useful, because I am capable of discerning needs and making decisions on my own, without the aid of a paid professional. I don't think people should need to be told Useful Stuff, I think if they're smart they should be able to figure it out on their own.

You're contradicting yourself, not to mention hearing only what you want to hear. READ THIS:

COUNSELORS AND ADVISORS TELL PEOPLE USEFUL STUFF IN REAL LIFE!
That doesn't mean people are required to listen to them, but they're there to give direction when one needs help and seeks it. This includes school counselors; their job is to tell "people useful stuff in real life."
SCHOOL COUNSELORS/ADVISORS "TELL PEOPLE USEFUL STUFF IN REAL LIFE" -- THAT USEFUL STUFF BEING KNOWING WHAT CLASSES WOULD BE GOOD FOR A PERSON TO TAKE!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 08, 2006, 09:11:15 PM
You have me at a logical fallacy; I originally read your post before you edited it, and did not see that comment until later. You are correct that I was not including a school advisor in my statement, but as far as I can tell, that kind of advising is a different type than the one we had been discussing previously. I was not talking here about things which require extra, specialized information such as class descriptions and schedules. Without a person to explain these things, it would be much more difficult to plan a schedule. This is not the type of "counseling" that I was talking about. If you consider them to be one and the same, I have a different point of view and have explained my point as much as necessary.

For reference, what do people like Dr. Phil and Oprah do, in your opinion?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: NintendoExpert89 on April 08, 2006, 09:30:30 PM
imagines a job where you run around telling people useful stuff in real life...

They're called counselors and advisors. ;)

These were the original posts. Bird Person described a job, and Sapphira clarified what individuals would hold that job. That was it, and nothing more. There was absolutely no intent for an argument, but one got started anyway. Who started it? And why?

If you need an "advisor" for your life, I have to wonder about your ability to survive in any situation at all.

Humor me, Chupperson: How on earth does this post have ANY relevance to Sapphira's post?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on April 08, 2006, 11:34:59 PM
Oh crap, what did I do? I didn't take Sapph's post as negative. I actually imagined Oprah or Dr. Phil running around a crowded town telling people not to step in the puddles. I'm gonna... click "Post" and then "Home".
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: NintendoExpert89 on April 09, 2006, 08:41:18 AM
It's not your fault, Bird Person. You didn't start this. I am simply stating that your post and Sapphira's post alone were just part of a simple, pleasant discussion about editing votes. Let's look at what came out:

One could argue against the "usefulness" of that "information".

One could, but why? Seriously, why must you criticize everything Sapphira says? It's annoying and rude. This comment had no place in this discussion. All it was meant to do was to offend.

If you need an "advisor" for your life, I have to wonder about your ability to survive in any situation at all.

It's bad enough that this post had absolutely no relevance to the "what people who help other people are called" discussion, but worse is that its word choice offended several people here, not just Sapphira. Chupperson, if you're going to criticize, do it with respect. We don't need you to constantly spew insults at people you disagree with, and then ignore and disregard their side of the argument. We don't care if that's not your tactful way to argue with people, you still need to treat others with respect and consideration. And if you're still whining "you know I don't really mean it," NEWS FLASH: the rest of us DO mean it when we say "You're annoying and offensive." If you're not going to realize and change what the rest of us see in you and are annoyed about, then you're obviously just an immature, arrogant jerk. CUT IT OUT AND GROW UP. You have a bad enough reputation as it is.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 09, 2006, 09:14:31 AM
Would you not agree that people should be smart enough by themselves to know not to step in puddles? Bird Person perfectly captured the essence of my thoughts. Actually, what bothered me the most was Sapph's winking face after that.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: NintendoExpert89 on April 09, 2006, 10:39:02 AM
You completely ignored what I said. You're only looking for an excuse to make Sapphira look like an idiot.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 09, 2006, 12:01:58 PM
Would you not agree that people should be smart enough by themselves to know not to step in puddles? Bird Person perfectly captured the essence of my thoughts. Actually, what bothered me the most was Sapph's winking face after that.
You need to choose your words WAAAY more carefully and considerately, then. It's not about what you MEANT; it's about what you SAID.
And yet, Koopaslaya had no trouble seeing what I meant. Interesting, isn't it?
We "know" what Chup thinks, as we established in the past above posts. Again, as we said before, it's completely fine to have your own opinion. But what you say is what is wrong-- not his opinion. He has insulted others of what they do and believe in; he could've just kept that part aside and still state his facts in a respectful way.
You're contradicting yourself, not to mention hearing only what you want to hear. READ THIS:
SCHOOL COUNSELORS/ADVISORS "TELL PEOPLE USEFUL STUFF IN REAL LIFE" -- THAT USEFUL STUFF BEING KNOWING WHAT CLASSES WOULD BE GOOD FOR A PERSON TO TAKE!
Whatever Chup says he implied by what he said didn't really mean anything to what I was saying. All it did was offend people. I never ONCE implied that people "always need direction about everything because they're helpless and clueless about life in general."  Either way, you're trying to make me look stupid. I'm sick of it.

Jeez Louise.
[/quote]
You're contradicting yourself, not to mention hearing only what you want to hear.
Mabey if you ACTUALLY read these posts, you might understand. If not, I have pity on you. All of these posts were about "Not what you mean, but what you say." along with your failure to read other parts of important posts. Or if you just look back upon your posts, you might just realize what you are saying is wrong.

This will be my last post on this discussion, for as Sapph and NE89 have mentioned, this topic has gone out of hand and should be discussed in a different place. Nothing will be accomplished here if Chupperson continues to fail for listening what others say. Or at least should be handled by other staff members and not us(normal members).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 09, 2006, 12:14:39 PM
EARAGGHH! Stop the fighting! My head hurts.....
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 09, 2006, 12:51:06 PM
wow. look at all the capital letters.  O.O

(Monday! Monday! Monday! battle between Sapph and Chupperson to the death!)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 09, 2006, 01:45:40 PM
Wow! People do argue about the weirdest things.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 09, 2006, 03:05:07 PM
What's the deal with everyone thinking I'm trying to make them look bad? I don't get where that came from.
And no, I was being perfectly honest that the winking face creeps me out and for some reason looks like it's saying, "You're dumb" when I look at it.
I don't know if this is a good example or what. People love guys like Dr. Phil for telling everyone all this stuff, and he's just telling them really obvious things that they would already know if they were smart. And that's sad.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: NintendoExpert89 on April 09, 2006, 03:09:47 PM
It still baffles me how a wink sparked this.

If you need an "advisor" for your life, I have to wonder about your ability to survive in any situation at all.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 09, 2006, 03:10:55 PM
And you tell me *I* read into things, Chup...
I winked because, for one, it was implied my job was to "run around giving people useful information," which I found interesting because counselors and advisors do that, and that's what I'll likely end up being in the future.

On another note, I am extremely reminded of this (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=9145.msg420258#msg420258).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on April 09, 2006, 04:26:27 PM
It makes you wonder, who will close the topic to end the argument when the topic-closers themselves are the ones arguing?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 09, 2006, 04:31:23 PM
This thread is cool. There's no need to close it because of a mod argument. Hopefully things will end and we can get on topic again.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 09, 2006, 04:48:50 PM
I don't most of the things that keep getting added. Some of them sound really weird.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 09, 2006, 05:07:03 PM
You guys shouldn't believe in time travel. If it were possible, we'd have visitors from the future.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Black Mage on April 09, 2006, 05:44:23 PM
John Titor is a fake?!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 09, 2006, 06:38:40 PM
How do we know we don't have visitors from the future?
How do we know that the visitors from the future haven't been apprehended by visitors from the further future and all things they did have been changed so we didn't notice?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Vidgmchtr on April 09, 2006, 06:57:19 PM
Maybe time travel does something to their brains to make them forget they time travelled.

Or maybe it's against the laws of time to say you've been time travelling.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on April 09, 2006, 07:20:04 PM
I think EM's anti-time travel argument is best, which is, if you did travel through time, you'd just end up in space.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 09, 2006, 08:17:53 PM
But if you can time travel, you'd surely be able to make your machine a space ship.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on April 09, 2006, 09:08:37 PM
How far away will the ship be from the Earth, though? I imagine the universe is expanding really, really fast.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 10, 2006, 01:56:37 AM
Because everything's expanding, stuff is expanding away from you faster the farther away it is. Since you'd still be relatively close to Earth, that type of expansion wouldn't make much of a difference. But now that you have me thinking, the Sun/galaxy's movement might screw you.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 10, 2006, 10:57:55 AM
I'm glad the fighting is over.  Thank goodness.  I don't know what to say about that whole argument (maybe I shouldn't say anything) but all I do know is (1, we have to be careful with what we say and also imply, (2 some people need help for some things because they may have been born with a certain disability (or still learning to solve problems), and (3 typing in all capital letters probably isn't a good idea for persuading people.  For myself, I have ADHD which I really don't like sometimes and I need help with things that most people usually don't.  On the other hand I have vocational rehabilitation which helps pay for my college work and I'm thankful for that.  Also, I believe that God gave me this disability because I also have a talent for creativity sometimes and I can relate with others who have any attention deficit problems.  I also agree with Chup that people should try to think for themselves but not everyone has the capability to do that (others should learn how if they're able).

Sapph: I didn't know you wanted to be a counselor.  That sounds perfect for you.

Time travel?  I don't know squat about that so I couldn't argue about it.  The first time I watched Back to the Future I was very confused. XD

Hey, now that EASTER is coming... what is everyone going to do for that? Even if it doesn't involve religion and it's just the good ol' easter egg hunts, that's fine too.  For my family we have an easter play at church (which was last night), an easter egg hunt (which I'm too old to do but candy is great for all ages!), and loads of chocolate from my grandparents!  I like the chocolate/vanilla bunny/cross, the cadberry eggs, and anything chocolate with peanut butter inside.  Mmmmmmm... tastay!

Speaking of Easter... is anyone going to watch The Ten Commandments on ABC tonight and tomorrow night? I'll probably miss it tonight because of my class but maybe tomorrow.  I love the story of Moses freeing the egyptians.  It's one of my favorite Bible stories.

List updated too.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on April 10, 2006, 03:24:02 PM
Oh yeah, Easter!  One of my favorite holidays.  I'm not aware of The Ten Commandments being on, Yoshisaurus Rex, but it sounds like it would be interesting.

Anyways, to travel through time you'd have to be moving at the speed of light.  You'd be moving along at such speed that when you stopped, times would have changed and people you once knew would have died.  It gets a lot deeper than this, but I don't really want to get into facts and details and stuff.   
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 10, 2006, 03:33:22 PM
Wow, YSR described everything that a perfect member would say. Good job, Yoshisaurus! You know, we could learn a great deal from you. ^_^

Every Easter my family gets together at my aunt's house. I have six aunts and uncles who always attend holidays, and it always ends up great! My family can be very odd, and must I say it-- WACK. But that's why I love my family! XD While at their house, all of the little kids(cousins, nephews, nieces, second cousins, etc.) go on an Easter Egg Hunt. Whoever finds the most wins the grand prize: a huge chocolate bunny! But inside each of the plastic eggs are little treats. Of course the adults hide them and set everything up. I wish I was still little... XP
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 10, 2006, 04:43:24 PM
I have often why people who are not Christian celebrate Easter. I think it is more of a celebration of spring than Easter. Easter is the celebration of the resurrection of Christ after his death on Good Friday.  Also, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas, the birth of Christ? All it seems to be is marketing by all the companies who say that if you don't buy presents for people on these specific religious holidays, you are not a good family member/friend.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 10, 2006, 05:38:00 PM
Not every Non-Christian celebrates Christmas. There were these people in our class that didn't show up for the Christmas party we had at school. And our teacher tries to stay away from conversations  about it so we don't hurt their feelings.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 10, 2006, 05:45:54 PM
I never said that ALL non-Christians do it. I just wonder why the ones that do, do.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 10, 2006, 06:01:11 PM
Some people say they're atheist just to get attention, or really are, but don't want their parents to know. Or they go with holiday activities because they like to make their friends and family happy.

I've been wondering for so long: Are people who believe more into science, evolution, etc. really considered atheist? My brother believes in science, but says that there could be something out there. The way he describes it makes a lot of sense, for lack of a better term. Now, he isn't really one to ask when it come to science, but he is very smart, and can reason very well.

Most atheists today are who they are because of depression, mid-life crisis-es, and are tired of "not seeing proof". But then again, there is a good portion of people who are strong believers of scientific explanations rather than almighty powers. I know a few members' beliefs here are with scientific facts.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 10, 2006, 06:06:51 PM
YEAH. There's a kid named ____ ____ in my class and he showed everybody he was. There was a girl that passed away from cancer that went to my school, and they were talking about how there was a better life in heaven. And he says this out loud "There is no heaven." He almost got his butt kicked after that.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 10, 2006, 06:11:09 PM
Some people are agnostic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 10, 2006, 06:16:14 PM
Well, there was no reason for him to say something like that when a student passed away. He should know better, especially for such a horrible, tragic time. All you can look forward to is religious places such as Heaven when you, or even someone you barely know passes away. He could've just not said anything on the matter. Was it a hard time for you when this even happened?

I'm sure if your friends passed away while you were talking about the same thing, and some person behind you said "There is no Heaven" would really break your heart. So of course the people had a right to be mad at the guy.

Sorry if I offend anybody upon this. Subjects like these some times offends people, so I try my best to speak in an understanding and emotional way.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for clearing that up, Sapph. XD I tend to forget terms like that...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 10, 2006, 06:20:28 PM
I personally didn't know her, but I still felt bad. I do have friends that knew her real good though, and they were crying. And so when that person said it, it made everybody mad, and then they like wanted to kill him or something.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 10, 2006, 06:26:45 PM
Oh, I know how your friends felt... and you, too. I am very sorry for you and your friends' loss. It's good to see that you're alright. I, too, have lost a friend recently... You can look in the Dearly Missed Members(or New/Returning Members Post Here!) topic if you want to read about all of this...

When did this happen? If you don't wish to talk about it, that's all right. But remember this: the more you tell people about a depression, the better you will feel. It worked great for me! ^_^
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Ambulance Y on April 10, 2006, 06:29:05 PM
Question: what are the Almas?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on April 10, 2006, 06:33:56 PM
No no guys, G-Dawg's more serious than he is saying. Ahem, quote:
"Matt's so stupid. He believes in God."
Ok, Why the bashing? The Big Bang seems less realistic. It had to come from SOMEWHERE. Ok, "uit came from a reaction in a tiny particle." Where did that tiny particle come from? Don't tell me it came from "a reaction." Where did God come from? Ask him when you die. Hmm... I'm curious. *scissors

I'll explain. She was a nice "Hi, how can i help you out" person, despite her knowledge of the future. I didn't know her either, but she always seemed like a good person. Then one day, (she had graduated by then but her sister still attended our school) she just... passed. We all did one of those memorial-type posters, where everyone who passes by the table signs it with a marker. The actual memorial didn't happen until about a month after this and her best friends and dad gave speeches. I had to sit next to the guy, and I listened to the speeches whil he sat there and ranted about how he didn't care. I should make him a nametag that says "This is where my heart would be if I had one" and put it on his chest.

Hyrulian! you're alive!!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 10, 2006, 06:35:39 PM
I have often why people who are not Christian celebrate Easter. I think it is more of a celebration of spring than Easter. Easter is the celebration of the resurrection of Christ after his death on Good Friday.  Also, why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas, the birth of Christ? All it seems to be is marketing by all the companies who say that if you don't buy presents for people on these specific religious holidays, you are not a good family member/friend.

No, it's because the Christians stole the Pagan festivals and turned them into Christian holidays based on events that were important to them, rather than having them just be Winter-partying-because-you-stocked-up-in-the-fall parties and Spring fertility parties.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 10, 2006, 06:38:23 PM
No no guys, G-Dawg's more serious than he is saying. Ahem, quote:
"Matt's so stupid. He believes in God."

Yeah, Matt's the smartest kid in the whole school. He's in 8th grade and doing Sophmore (sp?) math. I dislike ____ _____ very much.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 10, 2006, 06:39:16 PM
Funny you should say that. I just took a class on that. Easter is on the week of Passover, since that is when Christ died. As for Christmas, many people think that is has to do witht eh celebration of the "Sun God" and all of the pagan holidays. Unfortunately, this is not the case. In ancient customs, it was believed that the day you died is the day that you were concieved. Since it is known that Jesus died on March 25th, if 9 months are added, that brings us to December 25th.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 10, 2006, 06:50:02 PM
Koopaslaya: I think that if some people aren't religious and they just want to spend those holidays for family time, then there shouldn't be a problem there.  They wouldn't have to buy each other gifts but they probably do feel obligated like you said.  But maybe they just want to anyone. (However, I strongly suggest that you don't spoil your kids because then your days will NOT be merry and bright. ;) )

G-Dawg: Hopefully that guy learned his lesson.  At least he didn't say anything about Hell because that would be even worse.

Khold: Thank you!  I try to be nice but I don't think I'm as great as you say.  Sorry, about your friend too.  Right before I left the forums I listened to what people were saying about me and then I also heard what you said about your friend and was glad to see how people encouraged you.  So... I'm sorry that happened to you and I did pray for you too when I heard about it.

Also sorry to anyone else who lost someone.  I haven't lost any friends but I have lost grandparents and other family members.

Hyrulian: Heh, I found "The Almas" and some other things from a library book recently.  The Almas (which I didn't read much about) is, I think, like a female Big foot or something but smaller and lives in China I think.  Mokele-Mbembe and Kongamato are supposedly living dinosaurs in Africa (the sauropod and pterodactyl, respectively).

Bird Person: Hmmmmmm... what's his problem?  Did he have a fight with her or something?  Sorry about that.

Where did God come from?  It's possible that he existed before time and then created time as soon as He created everything else (sounds weird but what else could you have?).  Where did the first particles of the universe come from?  Maybe from... uh... an infinite loop in time that eventually closed and then the "nothing" of the universe reverted into "something" and then... exploded I guess.  That's all I got. *shrugs*

Now... for easter eggs! (C) (H) (O) (C) (O) (L) (A) (T) (E)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 10, 2006, 06:52:26 PM
Well, but there's historical evidence of big winter festivals long before the advent of Christianity. And the reason we have the Easter Bunny is because rabbits are a sign of fertility. Not arguing with you, but these things are certainly related.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 10, 2006, 06:53:15 PM
Of course I agree with you. I was not denying these facts. No beef.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 10, 2006, 06:53:39 PM
Since it is known that Jesus died on March 25th, if 9 months are added, that brings us to December 25th.

Are we really sure that's when Jesus was born? Can you tell me the evidence they've found. (I haven't heard of when they found it, I'm not creating an arguement here, just curious.)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 10, 2006, 06:54:49 PM
No, we aren't. But according to Koopaslaya, that's what the people who invented Christmas thought.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on April 10, 2006, 06:55:48 PM
Fight? No, he's just a rude idiot. Even if I weren't Christian, I wouldn't go out and say "this is a waste of time." She DIED for cryin' out loud. And learned his lesson? Far from.

G-Dawg, does it matter WHEN he was born? We celebrate on that day because we suspect it's his birthday. No one's sure, so let's leave it there, eh?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 10, 2006, 06:58:07 PM
No it doesn't matter. I was just wondering if they found the exact date. Gosh I guess I gave a new meaning to "Curiosity killed the cat." GEEZ.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on April 10, 2006, 07:03:43 PM
Concerning the question, "Where did God come from?" Rumor has it that He has no beginning or end, so maybe he didn't come from anywhere.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 10, 2006, 07:08:24 PM
Are we really sure that's when Jesus was born? Can you tell me the evidence they've found. (I haven't heard of when they found it, I'm not creating an arguement here, just curious.)

Yeah, this is the shaky part. Tradition tells us that. Also, if you go back on the calendar, March 25th is a possible date for that, because of the lunar cycles. However, I could very well have been the 26th, ot 27th or April 5th. You just don't know, but that is what the tradition has held, so...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 10, 2006, 07:12:36 PM
I'm listen' to ya, man! XD That's a good CT.  I kinda wish I had a new one (even though my last one was pretty insulting, but whatever).  Maybe when I release my big surprise next month...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 10, 2006, 08:16:52 PM
No, we aren't. But according to Koopaslaya, that's what the people who invented Christmas thought.

Christmas is placed on the 25th because a Pope from the 4th century thought that after a festivile on the 21st, it would be proper to place it there.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 10, 2006, 08:21:37 PM
PaperLuigi, read my post from earlier, that is the right reason.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 11, 2006, 03:02:17 PM
Weird how people believe in something that they don't fully understand.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 11, 2006, 03:47:11 PM
Explain these terms, because I wasn't sure how to vote:

Superstition, the missing link, other gods, witches/witchcraft
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 11, 2006, 03:54:18 PM
Superstition is unnatural powers; other gods... well, are other gods; witches are people who practice using unnatural power, while witchcraft is the study of magic. You know these terms... >_>
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on April 11, 2006, 04:00:39 PM
Gee thanks, Khold.  That helps.  *shakes head while rolling eyes

Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 11, 2006, 04:04:38 PM
But I don't know how to vote.

I believe in believers or followers of Wicca (a Wiccan) but I don't believe that they have powers.

I believe in superstitious people and superstition, but not that the thing they're superstitious about is true.

I don't believe in other gods, but does that mean gods other than the Christian/Jewish god? The wording is biased in its current form because no previous gods are listed and it assumes a specific god.

And what is meant by the missing link?

Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Khold on April 11, 2006, 04:10:44 PM
Well, from there on, it's common sense... Assume that witches actually use magic, you just said you believe in superstition, and if you believe in other gods, then you're polytheist; like me.

...What missing link? EDIT: Oh, I think it's just a joke.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on April 11, 2006, 04:20:14 PM
Missing link probably refers to the misplaced notion that there is a single glaring gap in human evolution. 

BTW, I voted for UFO.  Not because I believe in little green men in flying saucers, but because I believe that a flying object can be unidentified.  I demonstrated this in class by throwing something accross the room when someone asked me if I believed in UFOs.

Also, this poll has a glaring omission.

Edit:  Fixed.  http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/FIST2004-1/X0559_Over_Three_Hundred_P.html  I still say, "Bob does not exist."
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on April 11, 2006, 04:57:01 PM
PaperLuigi, read my post from earlier, that is the right reason.

I'm just believing what my history teacher told me. Either he's right, or he's making it up. (Which, I doubt.)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 11, 2006, 07:39:29 PM
There are more possibilities than those two.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 12, 2006, 02:05:51 PM
LD: Other gods started out as pagan gods, then Sapphira told me to change it to other gods, and... honestly I don't know what it means either!  Sorry for the confustion.  Maybe I should think of something.

For the missling link, I meant if there actually is a link we'll find that will prove the evolution of monkey to man (or whatever it was).  So, I guess it's kind of like asking if you believe in evolution.  I can change that if you want (but I don't like to do that after someone has voted for it already).

Luigison: So THATS what you've been talking about for so long! XD That is funny.  Yessiree Bob!

Edit: A new one? LOL! Thanks.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 12, 2006, 02:12:07 PM
There is no one link. That's an old, far outdated notion. There are tons of species between monkey and man.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on April 12, 2006, 02:24:13 PM
Luigison: So THATS what you've been talking about for so long! XD That is funny.  Yessiree Bob!
Actually, I got it from DarkBASIC.  In DarkBASIC if you call a sprite (BlitterOBject) that you have not created it gives the error message, "Bob does not exist."  I only recently found the link I posted above.

There is no one link. That's an old, far outdated notion. There are tons of species between monkey and man.
Woman on the other hand...  Nevermind.  Anyway, humans did not evolve from the modern day monkey or ape, but it's likely that we share a common ancestor.  The fossile record is incomplete, but the vast similiarities in great ape and human DNA support the theory of evolution.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on April 13, 2006, 06:41:32 PM
Hmmm.  http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/sciencepaleontology;_ylt=Apq73Z7wNWOFRgnKBqGgy9wDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBhcmljNmVhBHNlYwNtcm5ld3M-
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 13, 2006, 08:41:24 PM
Hmmm... indeed.  I'll read the rest of that tomorrow hopefully.  But I have a few questions to ask.  First, how do we know this is a real fossil and not another one that was made, changed, or put together from other bones?  Second, how do we know it isnt't a different kind of animal we haven't discovered yet or something?  Third, is it possible that mankind was different before the Flood IF it really happened?

(I heard about a theory of a sphere of water that surrounded the Earth before the flood and it supposedly filtered the sun light so people could be healther, have stronger bodies, and live longer.  Then God could have made that fall apart over the Earth, along with water coming out of the ground, in order to flood the world.  This theory sounds possible because Genesis 1:6 mentioned something about water in the sky "between" the waters on the ground or whatever.  Maybe it could be the nephilim too, but I won't even go there again).

Sorry that I rambled on like that before I even read the article, but I will try to get to it when I got time.  And I'm also sorry if I sound like a huge skeptic.

Bob exists... and you know it.  He's watching you... right now. @_@

Edit: I changed two things on the list! (the weren't very good ideas anyway)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on April 13, 2006, 09:16:29 PM
...This theory sounds possible because Genesis 1:6 mentioned something about water in the sky "between" the waters on the ground or whatever).  ... ...I'm also sorry if I sound like a huge skeptic...
Well, I don't use your "sounds possible because Genesis" type logic.  Also, this type of reasoning does not make you a 'huge skeptic'. 

Skeptic:
1.  One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.
2.  One inclined to skepticism in religious matters.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 14, 2006, 09:14:00 AM
Oh, that's good to know.  I feel like I disagree with evolution a lot but I'll try to open my mind more.  Trying to separate my mind from the Bible is like trying to take away meat from a pit bull! XD
Woman on the other hand...  Nevermind.
No kidding.  That's like... a whole new ball field.  I once read an article in Popular Science about how different the minds of men and women are, and I fouldn't believe it!

Sapph: I forgot to ask, what kind of counselor did you want to be?  And for what age group?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 15, 2006, 02:55:14 PM
Maybe you should consider removing some of the questions. For example, some that say zero. There's already too many questions already.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 15, 2006, 05:13:40 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to change the ones that stay at zero for long periods of time.  I replaced two recently (and hopefully someone will believe in teleportation!)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Mario Maniac on April 18, 2006, 10:50:43 AM
Multiple gods... if that were true, then Greek and Roman religion would still exist, pagan rituals would not be so mysterious, and worshiping idols would be practiced more often. The simple fact that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all condemn the worship of multiple gods/idols means something...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: superstarMASIAH on April 18, 2006, 04:20:13 PM
Time travel is deffinatly possible, it has been proven.  It's just we don't really have the technology for it today, well, we might, but we don't know about it.  I think some of the UFO models the government has could be time trvel capable.  But in this theory you'd have to use Einstein's formula E=mc(squared).  Which basically has to do with the speed of light, and don't anyone ever tell me that the speed of light is the fastest speed ever possible, there are far greater speeds that exist.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on April 18, 2006, 04:30:54 PM
Well, he's convinced me.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 18, 2006, 05:06:53 PM
Hey superstarMASIAH, the speed of light is the fastest speed ever possible.

PWNED!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: superstarMASIAH on April 18, 2006, 05:21:32 PM
If you completely rule out photon propulsion, yeah I guess it is.....  Oh yeah, and I was talking about the speed of light in the future too.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 18, 2006, 06:16:44 PM
LD: What about the speed of Lizard Dude during a mind-bogglingly frantic game of DDR? XD Nevermind.  Hey, did anything happen for April Fool's this year? (like, someone dying or rioting in front of Nintendo America?)  I was thinking of making another code with the letters A, F, and J but... oh well.

I can travel at the speed of light any time I want, but people never believe me because I do it so fast.  There just has to be a way to convince them! >X(

What do you guys think about teleportation?  I would love to have that for traveling around the world (except for the possibilities of getting my molecules destroyed or combined with other people!)

Edit: Should I make a few changes to the list?  I thought about having the words "draconic creatures," "humanoids," and "creatures thought to be extinct" like on newanimal.org, but I don't know if that's necessary.  Should I have more things in the Bible like the Holy Spirit, or do you think I have enough in that area?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 18, 2006, 06:30:37 PM
You have enough in that area because all the same people will vote for them.

I believe in humanoids.

What is photon propulsion?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 18, 2006, 06:49:16 PM
Teleportation already exists. We just can't use it for anything practical yet.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: dude677 on April 19, 2006, 03:26:28 PM
Yeah.
Transporting empty boxes between New York and Sacramento will have no use in the future.
Unless you're moving.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 20, 2006, 05:53:22 PM
Luigison: Okay, I finally read the article!  That's pretty interesting.

CW: Where does teleportation exist?  Does it have something to do with a part of outer space?

Btw, I'm sorry if I kind of shoved my beliefs down people's throats.  I'll work on not acting that way and being more open to new ideas.

So, can anyone tell me what happened for April's Fools day here?  And yeah, what is photon propulsion?

Random "fact": Speaking of time travel, I think there should be a spoof movie called "Bach to the Future."  Some weird scientist would go back in time, take the composer Johann Bach to the 90s, and there he would become a famous rock star! Woo!  But I won't say anything about my other idea of "Cry of the Wolfgang." XD
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 20, 2006, 08:59:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation#Recorded_Experiments
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on April 21, 2006, 04:50:24 PM
Woah.Teleportation is actually real? The future is now!!!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 21, 2006, 07:50:58 PM
Not really. We don't have those hover cars I was hoping for. *cries*
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 21, 2006, 08:38:35 PM
Maybe the government does and they're not telling us! >_>  <_<  >_>  <_<  @_@  But on the other hand, this probably isn't the best time for the U.S. to get more flying machines after what happened in 9/11 (maybe when have near perfect traffic regulation).

The future... is never!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on April 21, 2006, 11:11:20 PM
Uh, if you haven't noticed, we still use airplanes.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on April 21, 2006, 11:32:42 PM
People don't go around intentionally smashing their cars into buildings to cause harm, so I doubt people would do so with their flying machines.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on April 22, 2006, 08:34:12 AM
I believe in Gummi travel. I also believe that the Heartless and the Nobodies exist.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 22, 2006, 12:16:12 PM
CW and LD: *smashes head on desk and then desk on head*

Edit: What are you talking about, The Chef?  Are these real things or just a joke?  I'd like to know if they are real things.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 22, 2006, 02:04:27 PM
I thought that there was no such thing as purgatory. ('m a Luthern)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: bobman37 on April 22, 2006, 03:41:55 PM
The Chef is talking about stuff from Kingdom Hearts/Kingdom Hearts 2.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on April 22, 2006, 08:00:46 PM
Yeah, I was only joking. I'm a bit of Kingdom Hearts fan and I just got my hands on a copy of KH2.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 23, 2006, 08:51:53 PM
I thought that there was no such thing as purgatory. ('m a Luthern)

Well since I'm Catholic, I believe in it. And I've noticed I'm the only one that's voted for it.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: smfan1085 on April 23, 2006, 09:40:47 PM
I finally made my votes.

I'm also Catholic, and I also believe in Purgatory.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 24, 2006, 12:47:09 PM
Whoever is adding options to the list... thank you for that.  It must be God! :)

I don't believe in purgatory because I believe that Jesus suffered more than enough so that those who follow Him won't have to after they die, and there's enough suffering in the world already.  This is just what I believe.

I thought of another option to add!  How about this?  "Nintendo is and always will be the best!"  Or maybe a better one would be "The Holy Grail," "The Ark of the Covenant," and other things in movies like Indianna Jones (about if these things exist today).  I don't know anything about this stuff right now.  "Oh yes-a.  We gotta holy grail!  It's-a very noss!" "What?  Ah you sure?" "(I told him we already got one!)"
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on April 24, 2006, 03:06:25 PM
I noticed that the Tooth Fairy isn't up there.
....you never know.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: smfan1085 on April 24, 2006, 07:14:47 PM
I don't believe in purgatory because I believe that Jesus suffered more than enough so that those who follow Him won't have to after they die, and there's enough suffering in the world already.  This is just what I believe.

But if there's no purgatory, wouldn't that mean that someone who commits a lot of venial (comparatively minor) sins in his life and doesn't repent of them, but does repent of any mortal (serious) sins he may have committed, will go straight to heaven after he dies, just like a saintly person who tries as hard as he can not to commit any sins and repents of every sin that he does commit?

(I apologize if that sentence is too long or hard to understand. I will rephrase it if you need me to.)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 24, 2006, 07:54:03 PM
The Chef: I discovered the truth about the tooth fairy yesterday.  You may not like what you hear! >=)+)

smfan1085: No, that's alright I got it (after reading it a couple times XD).Hmm, that's an interesting question.  But I think that instead of repenting of only some things, most people would repent of all their sins (from their whole lives) and ask God to help them stop and create new, good habbits.  And I believe that God wants everyone to be able to come to Heaven, so he would remind people to repent of things before they die if He wanted to and the people cared about it.  Even if someone screws up repeatedly, God can still forgive anyone for anything as long as they keep trying, keep asking for His help to change, and really want to live differently. (I know this is possible because I've seen how He's slowly changed me after much prayer and hard work, and there's no way I could have done it by myself for long.  Sorry I keep saying this stuff all the time but it's hard for me not to. :^_^).  Out on the ocean floor.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: smfan1085 on April 24, 2006, 08:15:48 PM
YSR: Just to make sure you know this, Catholics believe purgatory to be the place where people who still bear guilt from minor sins (and serious sins that they've already repented of but still not atoned for completely) stay for a certain period of time, depending on the amount of sins they committed, and are finally let out to be with God in heaven. According to the Catholic Church, anyone who's in purgatory will certainly get to heaven eventually.

The only reason I said this is because I wasn't sure from your last post whether or not you knew that Catholics believed that people in purgatory went to heaven. It could be that I didn't read your post carefully enough, though. I hope that's not the case.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 25, 2006, 10:26:05 AM
I'm sorry,  I guess I didn't know that (or forgot)!  When I looked up the word in the dictionary I only caught the part about suffering so I thought it was just about that and nothing else.  I need to learn more about what people of certain religions believe so I can know more about this (and not sound like a big idiot sometimes XD).  Thanks for telling me!  What else do Catholics believe in? I hope that doesn't sound rude, I just want to know. If there's too much to say, you don't have to say it.

Is there anything mentioned in the Bible about purgatory or is it just in the Catholic Bible? Is it believed that purgatory is a place that everyone goes to or just the saints who go marching in?  And how does someone know if they atoned for their sins?  Is their a certain rule or ritual that needs to be done?

(Personally, I believe that God can completely remove our guilt, shame, and regrets on Earth if we trust Him, and believe that He has forgiven us and already went through the punishment that everyone deserves.  But if we can't remove all of our guilt here for some reason then He could definitely do it right away in Heaven.  Which I guess is kind of likee purgatory.  But to wait outside Heaven for that long would probably drive me crazy!  I prefer to think about the unknown great rewards that people will receive for their kind actions in life.) 
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 26, 2006, 03:10:39 PM
I was taught in my church, "all your sins are forgiven."

"May the force be with you"
"And also with you"
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 26, 2006, 06:08:51 PM
I thought Purgatory was the place where you go before you get to Heaven. Like for your sins and stuff, and that's why we go to Confession...right. I don't think it's a place for suffering, just a place that's not Heaven.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 27, 2006, 02:36:09 PM
You are correct.

And, there is an ant on my keyboard. It is now on the number pad. It's dead.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on April 27, 2006, 02:44:43 PM
I think actually think that Alternate Realities ahould be added to the list. Some people may actually beilive in those. I actually beleive that when I die , I'll be reincarnated in another dimention.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 27, 2006, 04:34:03 PM
Just to let everyone know, I changed the TMK option to other dimensions.  So your answers are still the same just more specific now.  I can put Alternate Realties and anything else on the list as long as they could work (whatever that means) and people agree with them.

The Chef: You would probably come back as a chef.  You sealed your destiny!

If I had to be reincarnated as anything, it would probably have to be a T-rex.  No, make that a new species of T-rex that can fly, swim, and run fast.  However, as a human going through life once I don't know if I would want to do it again. I think that by the time I'm about to die I would much rather die and live with God and my friends and family forever.

Edit: Okay, I put alternate realities up there (I was going to add "the matrix" and then I just realised that's an alternate reality).  I also changed option 13 to the trinity and will try to find more ideas later.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 27, 2006, 07:45:29 PM
Did you lock the voting, because I can't fing the Remove Vote, so I can get new votes in.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 27, 2006, 10:11:12 PM
I didn't lock the voting.  Sorry, I don't know what's going on here.  Can anyone help him out?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Ultima Shadow on April 27, 2006, 10:43:44 PM
The 'Remove Vote' is back.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Fifth on April 27, 2006, 11:05:14 PM
...By the way, what is meant by "Giai"?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 28, 2006, 01:14:59 AM
Maybe he means "Gaia"? And if so, do you mean the Gaia Hypothesis or Gaia as in "Mother Earth"?
I thought something else was originally under "Bob's Mom"; did you change the option?

But if there's no purgatory, wouldn't that mean that someone who commits a lot of venial (comparatively minor) sins in his life and doesn't repent of them, but does repent of any mortal (serious) sins he may have committed, will go straight to heaven after he dies, just like a saintly person who tries as hard as he can not to commit any sins and repents of every sin that he does commit?
I don't believe in Purgatory. I believe that once you're forgiven, you're forgiven; once you ask for forgiveness, you're also asking forgiveness for anything you do in the future, as well. All your sins you've committed and will commit are "placed at the Cross" when forgiven, and the Holy Spirit enters you. From that point on, God doesn't see "you" (the broken sinner); instead he only sees his perfect Son. Whatever sins you commit, no matter how big or small, don't matter anymore, although that doesn't give you "fire insurance"--an excuse to do bad things. So, I don't see the reason for Purgatory. Note that this is all my personal belief; I'm not saying others' are "wrong".

On another note, I believe that--for those already saved, who are forgiven--how you live on earth will have some consequences, but more an "awards ceremony" than a punishment or whatever. Pretty much your life will be put on display--the good and bad. The bad is already forgiven, but the good is rewarded. And, like an awards ceremony in real life, if you're awarded nothing or very little, you'll probably feel ashamed or at least not that great (not to mention embarrassed by all the bad things).  Purgatory seems more like a punishment, having to "wait longer" before experiencing paradise. This Judgment Seat of Christ "awards ceremony" is scriptural; Purgatory isn't, at least to my knowledge.

I've never found any evidence of Purgatory in the Bible, and from what I've learned in history, the idea of Purgatory led to corruption in the church, with some clergy encouraging people to basically "buy their way into heaven"--well, buy their time out of Purgatory faster, or something. So personally, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of Purgatory. So, yeah... Again, this is what I personally believe.

I heard something about the Pope or Catholic church or something changing (or thinking about changing /wanting to change) that unborn and unbaptized babies actually go directly to Heaven, rather than Purgatory first.

Semi-related to this whole post, I recently read this (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%202:16-21;&version=65;), and I find it very interesting--and applicable to my own life. This is something I've struggled with, and my mentality is changing more and more.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 28, 2006, 08:24:55 AM
Koopaslaya: Was the ant dead when you found it or did you squish it?  If that's the case, you should be called "Antslaya."

Yeah... Gaia.  I had a feeling I spelt that wrong. XD I didn't know there was also a theory that went along with mother earth, I just heard about Gaia itself.  I may have had something under Bob's mom before but I don't remember what it is now, sorry.

Sapph: I feel like I can never be able to say things like you can, Sapph.  But I don't feel jealous, just wish I could communicate better. But we all have unique talents.  I know exactly how you feel with what you pointed out (the verses in Galatians) and it's also hard for me to focus on trust and obedience to Jesus and not just trying to keep all of the rules alone (hey, I just finished reading Galations two books ago!).  But if we keeping praying, have patience, and do our best to make the right choices, the Holy Spirit can slowly change our character through our whole lives.  "It takes only a day to grow a mushroom, but it takes years to grow a Red Wood."
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 29, 2006, 09:32:13 AM
I squished it. Hah, antslaya.

Well, the Jehova's Witness came over today. That was a different expreience. I did the best I could to try to have a discussion with them. Unfortunately, it failed, since I got a phone call, and they got to leave then, but other that that, it was pretty solid.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 29, 2006, 03:03:00 PM
I don't believe in Purgatory. I believe that once you're forgiven, you're forgiven; once you ask for forgiveness, you're also asking forgiveness for anything you do in the future, as well.

Yeah, but not everybody asks for frogiveness though. Like maybe they have a secret that they try to hide (good luck with that). I know most people confess and ask for forgiveness, but happens to everybody else that doesn't. It's not like they're going to "The Basement" for not asking forgiveness and still having a sin. Unless it's bad enough.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 29, 2006, 04:32:53 PM
Koopaslaya: What did you talk to them about?

G-Dawg: Well... I don't know everything about how purgatory and other things work.  All I know is what I believe, which is if someone confesses to God all their sins of their whole lives, believe in Jesus and his resurrection, and do their best to trust and obey Him, they won't have to worry about that.  All sins are the same to God, so it's no problem for him to forgive and forget any amount and any size of sins. "Yes, I'd like to forgive the tripple decker sin-which with some peace and love on the side, please."  And do we really know if everyone doesn't get a chance to ask for forgiveness?  I believe that God gives everyone that chance and really "desires that none should perish but all should have everlasting life."  The final choice is up to us.  But I doubt that there's any way that anyone can ever stop failing at times, but we should just worry about asking for forgiveness, forgiving ourselves, and then moving on and keep trying to do the right thing (All things that I just believe, of course.  Always gotta say that.)

Okay, now you convinced me.  I'm gonna to go hear Boston rock on!  WoooooooooT!! *drives to Boston and doesn't know where to go next*
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 29, 2006, 08:23:42 PM
You can Ignore this but...

I can't believe that 5 people have voted for Luigi in SM64.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on April 30, 2006, 08:29:44 AM
Oh I just kindly proved to them that Jesus is God. Jesus isn't merely a being, like they believe. I used John 1:1, and the origional Greek. They were pretty much shocked, they left on the first chance they got, which is after I went to answerr the phone.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on April 30, 2006, 03:11:23 PM
This is off-topic too, but I have noticed people have voted for aliens...but not UFOs. I didn't, but I mean don't aliens use UFOs as their ships if they were real?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Insane Steve on April 30, 2006, 03:13:58 PM
No. Hollywood aliens use UFOs as ships. Real "aliens" may not even be advanced enough to travel outside their own planet. They may not even be carbon-based.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on April 30, 2006, 03:15:01 PM
Love at first site? Definitley not.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 30, 2006, 03:56:22 PM
I heard that some UFOs could actually be creatures in disquise as giant ships.  It sounds crazy but I think that's no crazier than the aliens themselives! (It could be like really strange camoflauge or something involving light and air.)  Some cryptozoologists believe there could be flying creatures that are very lightweight and almost impossible to see, and if they ever land they would fall apart (or melt) and die.  I don't know if this is true or not but if you have enough sane eye witnesses talk about weird stuff, you gotta believe something.  Even if it's not true, theories can help you find the truth.

MSM: Yeah, I don't believe that either.  Lust is easy, but love... not so sure there.  Some girls I find attractive because of their personalities and sometimes looks, but that isn't real love. *Remembers the threads that Sapphira and LD made about that*
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on April 30, 2006, 05:27:18 PM
Hahaha, I think he meant that it should be love at first sight. XD
But yeah, love at first sight? Definitely not. Attraction or lust at first sight, yeah, but not love. To truly love a person, you must really know them first.

Koopaslaya: Haha, awesome. I remember my dad actually witnessed to some JWs who came to our door once. They met several times after that, and I think either they became Christians or ended up seriously questioning their beliefs.

I find it hilarious that only 14 out of 41 voters believe there are girls on the intarweb. XD
Well, maybe girls (PLURAL) don't exist, but I know for a FACT at least one girl does.
/me points to self
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on April 30, 2006, 06:03:42 PM
Love at first site actually is quite possible.  If the first site you go to is a dating Web site, you meet that person in real life, get to know them, and fall in love... there you go!

Sapph to KS: Heh heh heh!  That's kind of funny.  But how do we know for sure that you're really a girl, Sapphira, and not just lying about that? ;)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: esplin on May 01, 2006, 02:47:08 PM
The only thing I believe in is the cold hard science of................................relegion.
That is all.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 01, 2006, 07:57:22 PM
Not to be mean or anything, but how many more speeling mistaiks are we going two hav?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: smfan1085 on May 03, 2006, 11:01:07 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/purgatory

Yeah, I'm lazy. I hope this answers at least some of people's questions about purgatory.

Sapphira: There is a reference to purgatory in Maccabees 2 in the Catholic Bible. If I recall correctly, Maccabees 1 and 2 were omitted from the Protestant Bible by Martin Luther or one of the other Reformation people.

Also, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence#History) might shed some light on the matter of indulgence-selling, which provoked Martin Luther into rejecting the Catholic Church. It seems to me, judging from what the article says, that Johann Tetzel was either not following true Catholic doctrine on indulgences or wording what he said in a very inaccurate way; so it still looks to me like Church doctrine itself cannot be blamed for the "corruption" Martin Luther denounced.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 03, 2006, 11:02:40 PM
lol, Bible editing
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 04, 2006, 02:13:10 PM

Sapphira: There is a reference to purgatory in Maccabees 2 in the Catholic Bible. If I recall correctly, Maccabees 1 and 2 were omitted from the Protestant Bible by Martin Luther or one of the other Reformation people.



Yes, In the Catholic Bible, Mac 1&2, parts, of Daniel, Ezra, and others were omitted because in thier origional language, they were not in hebrew. THe Jews didn't use them after a council, so Mr. Luther did not his people to use them. The Catholics, however, kept the Deuterocanonicals, (incorrectly called  the Apocrypha by Protestants). The real  apocrypha are those books such as the Gnostic Gospel of Judas etc...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 04, 2006, 02:35:21 PM
Smfan1085: Lazy?  Nah.  This works better so people can read it for themselves.  Looks like wikipedia is the new eBay for information! (and a resource I wasn't allowed to use in my writing class)

Speaking of the Gnostic Gospels, has anyone read The Davinci Code yet or know anything about it? (I know a little but I think that I should give you all a chance to talk and be quiet for awhile).  I didn't mean to change the subject, but that just came to mind.  Concerning purgatory, I think that the Bible verses in wikipedia were misinterpreted and the authors were really talking about "heck" or examples of punishment or salvation in life (that's just my opinion though).  Maybe I might read the rest of that page soon so I don't get left behind.

I wish people wouldn't use indulgence selling to get money.  If you talk about it a little, I don't mind (because I do believe in God's blessings to generous and unselfish people) but not as a form of getting money.  It should always be about helping others with no expectation of anything in return (which is hard to do for me).  However, maybe some people may do that unintentionally or just too often, but it's not always easy to tell.

Maybe I should change my question to "Which of the following do you believe has, does, or will exist/is true?" so I can add more options.  Such as... the book of Deezer.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 04, 2006, 03:24:50 PM
YSR, no. Wiki is correct on this. In fact, I even have talked to a priest about it. Purgatory is a good place. You can not go to hell from there.  All it is, is a house cleaning place. So that you will be completely pure upon entering heaven. Yes, you can skip Purgatory, if in fact you are truly sorry and forgiven before you die. I'm not even going to try to explain confession.

Also, yes the DaVinci Code is very cool. It's a great story. This is what people don't understand. It is just a story. It's not the truth. That book is mostly fiction. If people would understand that it is only a story, there would be no uproar.   
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: smfan1085 on May 04, 2006, 06:32:07 PM
The main problem concerning the Da Vinci Code is that the author LIED and said that the book is based on true historical fact. I think there's a book called The Da Vinci Hoax that proves he was lying when he said that.

Concerning purgatory, I think that the Bible verses in wikipedia were misinterpreted and the authors were really talking about "heck" or examples of punishment or salvation in life (that's just my opinion though).

I may be misunderstanding you, but Maccabees 2 couldn't have been talking about Hell. The passage mentions praying for the dead, and praying for the dead wouldn't make sense if the dead people in question are certainly either in Heaven or Hell; if they're in Heaven, they're already perfectly happy, and if they're in Hell, they have no hope of any sort.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 04, 2006, 06:52:24 PM
smfan1085, you are 100% correct.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 04, 2006, 07:02:56 PM
Also, yes the DaVinci Code is very cool. It's a great story. This is what people don't understand. It is just a story. It's not the truth. That book is mostly fiction. If people would understand that it is only a story, there would be no uproar.   

My parents say the Davinci Code is a lot of nonsense. And my dad is Protestant and my mom is Catholic...they actually agree on something.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 04, 2006, 07:56:51 PM
Koopaslaya: Well... I have heard the theory of a waiting place before entering heaven, so maybe that's kind of like that.  I'm sorry, I guess that I struggle to accept new ideas sometimes.  I just don't know much about it and it seems like a contradiction to some things in the Bible.  I'm not sure if I believe it, but I'll try to find out more.  However, I do think that at least some of the verses were misinterpreted.

New options up!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 18, 2006, 07:40:34 AM
Well, I don't like to double-post, but there's something I feel like I need to ask.  In your opinion (anyone), do you think that I need to change my behaviour a little here?  I'm starting to wonder if maybe I talk too much or I'm somewhat unkind/insensitive to people or their comments or beliefs.  I'm not asking this to try and get compliments, but I just want to know the truth about my actions so I can try to improve myself in the future.  Sometimes I feel a little ignored and I wonder if it's because my posts are too long, goofy, unimportant or whatever, but I also know that not everyone reads everything and I'm not the only one.  And if you think I'm too paranoid you can say that too! XD

Anyway... that's all I wanted to know.  It's important for me to learn how to get along with people (both online and in the real world) and I don't want to offend people with my words (unless I "have to").  Thank you!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 18, 2006, 10:28:48 AM
No, you have no need to change. You are probably one of the most sensitive to others' beliefs (regardless of if you talk about them a lot or not). Long posts are a good thing and usually more constructive and interesting than a one-liner (we're all guilty), but there always is the risk of being skimmed over if too long. I don't do that, but like you said, some skip them or are too daunted by the amount of content to reply. That's just a fact the discerning poster has to accept.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 18, 2006, 12:51:42 PM
What LD said. (Uh oh, example of a one-liner... >_>; )
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: fuzzy on May 19, 2006, 04:43:29 PM
I do not believe in any type of god or magical being created the universe at all.  To me, all stories with religion are way to magical to even be considered real.  I believe that religions were created by people long ago because they didn't have the science to explain eveything.  Religion was created just so people could feel good about having "answers."  I do not really care if somebody believes in a god or anything, I just think it is a little strange.:P
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on May 19, 2006, 05:50:40 PM
Hmm.  I know a lot of people who think that too.  But, come on people, do you honestly think that we are supposed to understand everything about this complex universe???  Humans aren't that smart, and I think people tend to think that everything has an explenation, when really nothing truly does.
To me, science is just another term for "studying the things that God created".
Faith is something priceless.  :-/
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on May 19, 2006, 06:13:31 PM
Maybe there's a race of beings out there that do understand the universe.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 19, 2006, 08:04:29 PM
Yeah, but only one, and He's the Creator. ;)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 19, 2006, 08:53:00 PM
LD and Sapph: Thanks!  That's good to hear.  I'm trying to be nice but sometimes I can say mean things and think that I'm just teasing.

TBT: Excellent point.  Science is very important for learning about things, but it can't answer some questions like "why" (which is where faith comes in).  As long as science doesn't try to hide the truth or invent it's own truth.

"A wise man changes his ideas to fit the truth,  A foolish man changes the truth to fit his ideas." (A new sig idea for Sapph)

Fuzzy: Actually, people believe in religions because of what people or gods did in the past and they try to live like them, or do what they taught, etc.  Some religions are probably made up, some are based on true things and put together with other ideas, and some are completely true (at least, I think one is).

Sometimes I wonder if heck is located inside the Earth, like some cartoons joke about.  I think the Bible mentioned that Jesus went "inside the Earth" for 3 days to do something (like preach to the generation before the Flood I think) so maybe that means heck.  I remember how Luigison said something about not believing ideas soley because the Bible says it, but I think it's okay if it doesn't have a huge part in life.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on May 20, 2006, 06:57:14 AM
Maybe heck is depicted as a pit of fire because the Earth's core is supposed to be really hot.

Here's something else:

Did God create the Dinosaurs?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: fuzzy on May 20, 2006, 09:05:37 AM
The Bible never mentions dinosaurs.  It is probably because the people writing the religion didn't even know what dinosaurs were so they didn't include them in the story that supposidly tells you how everything works.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 20, 2006, 12:28:04 PM
Yeah I get confused with that stuff. Scientists say that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, but God created the Earth like 5,000 yrs or something like that. Anybody want to help me out?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Bigluigifan1.0 on May 20, 2006, 12:32:45 PM
It does mention dinos, but I can't remember where, so I'd appreciate someone backing me up. :) Also, just count how many years by the thousands ect, and you'll see that earth is not 6 million years old like so many books tell.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 20, 2006, 01:26:39 PM
[H]ere's an interesting bit of information. The world is estimated to be billions of years old, right? As are many fossils that have been found. . . .Well, different dating methods (i.e. carbon dating) have been found to not be all that accurate or reliable. For example (again, I don't have a source; sorry >_<), this group of scientists or archaeologists or both KNEW this building was 100 years old. They KNEW it; it was a complete fact. Using carbon dating (or some other "reliable" common method), the results said that the building was something like around 1000 to 50,000 years old (or some ridiculous amount like that; I don't remember the numbers, other than the difference was ENORMOUS between the carbon date and the actual date). There was absolutely no question about age of the building, yet look how extremely off and inaccurate the results were. Our tools are not always fool-proof, so some "scientific estimations" may actually be inaccurate. The world may very well not be billions of years old. It may be, it may not be; there's no actual complete, 100% undoubted proof. More evidence that a lot of "science" requires faith, because hard facts are not always there, or are not always accurate.

Another explanation/idea of earth's age:
I believe, personally, that the world was not created literally in 6 days, but that the story divides it into 6 days  because at the time it was written, it was the most fathomable way to explain it. Those "days" in actuality could have been thousands or millions of years. The Bible says that to God, "a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day"--which I take to mean that God is not bound by time, as we are (which also explains how he always was, is, and will be, etc.). Since we are bound by time, it's extremely hard to fathom that something could NOT be bound by a time plane (kind of like something bound in the 2nd dimension trying to explain/understand the 3rd dimension, if you will). Anyway, since God's not bound by time, it could've taken however long or short he wanted it to, to create the universe. Because of not being bound by time, it would be kind of hard to explain when these things took place and how long it took, so it was divided into 6 main events--put into neatly packaged "days" for understanding. It very well may have taken 6 literal days, but regardless, that's not the important fact of the matter.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 20, 2006, 01:30:32 PM
In 1650, Archbishop James Ussher of the Church of Ireland made a careful study of the Bible and other historical sources and concluded, in a hefty tome called Annals of the Old Testament, that the Earth had been created at midday on October 23, 4004 B.C.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 20, 2006, 01:35:15 PM
It does mention dinos, but I can't remember where, so I'd appreciate someone backing me up. :) Also, just count how many years by the thousands ect, and you'll see that earth is not 6 million years old like so many books tell.

Haha, what? 6 million? I don't know what books you're reading, but the Earth actually formed some 4,550 million years ago (give or take 70 million years).
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 20, 2006, 01:40:39 PM
Not questioning the age but the existence of dinosaurs. How could there of been dinosaurs 60 million years ago?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 20, 2006, 01:53:42 PM
What's the problem?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 20, 2006, 02:10:31 PM
Yeah, even if the world is that old they could have still lived in history.

The Bible never mentions dinosaurs.  It is probably because the people writing the religion didn't even know what dinosaurs were so they didn't include them in the story that supposidly tells you how everything works.

Woo!  This is one question I really look forward to answering.  Do you remember what I said earlier in the topic about the Book of Job, chapters 40 and 41?  You might want to read those.  Depending on the version you have (like KJV), you'll hear about some bizairre creatures called the Behemoth and the Leviathan.  The Behemoth is a strange creature that swings it's tail like a cedar tree, eats grass, drinks tons of water, has bones like iron, and can break through traps with his nose.  The Leviathan is a scary sea creature with scales, sharp teeth and... BREATHES FIRE!!  Not kidding.  I wrote a fun research paper for college about the possibility of living dinosaurs today and I learned about this in part of my research.  I'll let you read a small part of that here if you want to.

* * * * * * * *
Many church attendants have probably never heard about something like this, but it is quite possible that dinosaurs (or something like them) are mentioned in a few brief places in the Bible.  Occasionally, we can hear words like “behemoth,” “leviathan,” and “dragon” mentioned, and despite how the names of these words can change between versions, one specific book appears to suggest things much different from any modern day animal we may think of (King James Bible).

In the book of Job in chapter 40:15-24, God reminds Job about a creature called behemoth, and says that it eats grass in the mountains, has bones as strong as brass or iron bars, and that he can “drinketh up a river and hasteth not; he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.”  He also says that the creature moves his tail like a cedar tree and can break through hunters’ traps with his nose.  Versions like the Living Bible translates the word behemoth into “hippopotamus,” but if that was only hippo, it would have to be a very thirsty, mountain-dwelling hippo with a big tail (King James Bible).

When chapter 40 ends, the next one presents an even greater suggestion of a possible dinosaur when it goes on to describe another fierce and powerful creature (or a different name for the same creature) named leviathan; the last creature that God describes.

Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? Or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down (verse 1)?... Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons?  Or his head with fish spears?  Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.  Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him (7-9)?  Who can open the doors of his face? His teeth are terrible round bout.  His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.” (King James Bible, Job 40:14-15)

The phrase “drawing out leviathan” sounds like a reference to water, and the aquatic creature must have tough, scaly skin and perhaps a mouth like a crocodile.  But could a crocodile or other small scaly creature escape from these sharp, deadly weapons?  And what kind of scaled creature could scare everyone, including Steve Irwin, simply by its appearance?  Is it a giant crocodile perhaps?  If anyone thought they knew the answer, the end of the chapter only sets those ideas on fire.

Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.  Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or cauldron.  His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth (19-21).... He maketh the deep to boil like a pot; he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment (31).... Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. (King James Version, 33) 

Are these creatures what we think they are?  If the behemoth is not a grass-eating dinosaur and the leviathan is not a dragon or fire-breathing sea serpent, then what else could they possibly be?  Would God, who supposedly speaks in these verses and the rest of Job, exaggerate about these beasts (Job 38-42)?  Or were these simply a few analogies for the devil or something else, like the analogies in Revelation? 

We may not know for sure, but we can remember that God depicts these two creatures following many other well-known animals, therefore suggesting more real animals. (Job 38-42).  And He has also compared the devil with ordinary creatures before, such as a wolf, serpent, and “a roaring lion,” so that could possibly indicate something too. If not dinosaurs, perhaps these are things we have never seen before (and may never want to) (King James Version).
* * * * * * * *

That was a really fun paper to write!  But anyway... that's what it says.  The paper wasn't only about what the Bible says but that was a big part of it.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Bigluigifan1.0 on May 20, 2006, 02:26:56 PM
Haha, what? 6 million? I don't know what books you're reading, but the Earth actually formed some 4,550 million years ago (give or take 70 million years).
I think I just forgot because I haven't seen any of that stuff in a while so I was just sort of estimating, I remember know that the books said 60 million years, but either way, I don't believe it being "millions" of years, but still, I found 60 million years bologna.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 20, 2006, 02:44:39 PM
Why do you find it bologna?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 20, 2006, 02:53:13 PM
No, no, he found a piece of bologna that was 60 million years old! Eww! I wouldn't eat that if I were you.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Bigluigifan1.0 on May 20, 2006, 03:01:07 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you just in case that conversation might come up, but really, I'm just going to say this:

In most non-God religions they say the dinosaurs existed long before human kind meaning there were not really many things taking care of the earth to make it so green, now, it can be said from people that once people came on earth that they filled the earth with plants and other things that make earth what it is now, but how do things even come from other objects on the earth or from noting at all, that would mean that there were such thing as magic and human could make use of magic on their own, but they can't, meaning that only something could create them (You know what I'm saying.). Also, how can magic exist? I must have come from something, are we all here for no real reason? That would be odd, I really don't get how anything could exist from absolutely nothing at all when everything here did not exist at one time, I know people can say that how could God exist, but He is God, meaning He can do anything thus, making Him exist, before time. (Off-topic)Oh my gosh, I just realized I've been posting a whole lot more worth reading posts lately.(Off-topic)
*Waits for more questions seconds later*

Haha Sapph.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on May 20, 2006, 05:34:30 PM
Humans wrote the Bible. Dinosaurs died out before humans were around. That's why dinosaurs aren't in the Bible. (I sound like I'm explaining this to a 6 year old :\)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 20, 2006, 06:44:06 PM
But if the world was created by God when the Bible was written (well maybe not at that time, but not 60 million years)...how were there dinosaurs that long ago?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 20, 2006, 07:47:14 PM
ProTip: If you want the world to make sense, don't take the Bible literally.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 20, 2006, 07:48:21 PM
Sapphira: XD  But wouldn't it evolve into a bologna sandwhich by then? (not insulting evolution)

Lizard Dude: Well, you can take it literally sometimes but definitely not always.  It takes discretion and God's wisdom for knowing what is truth and what is analogies.

Humans wrote the Bible. Dinosaurs died out before humans were around. That's why dinosaurs aren't in the Bible. (I sound like I'm explaining this to a 6 year old :\)

It looks like once again, YR is completely ignored. >_>  Oh well, I understand how hard it is to read long posts.  I talk about dinosaurs in the Bible in my last post.

Also, I've found a ton of good information about stuff like this at the following link: http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/ (http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/).  I haven't read everything yet so I'm sorry if there's anything kind of offensive or inaccurate, or whatever, but from what I've seen it's very good information. (concerning Genesis and stuff) The author seems to dislike evolution and you probably won't agree with everything he says but it's still fascinating.  IMO I may need to find more sites that I disagree with. ;)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: SolidShroom on May 20, 2006, 08:30:30 PM
Can you believe that some idiot 6 idiots! said that they believe that Luigi is in SM64!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Ultima Shadow on May 20, 2006, 08:47:37 PM
That's because he is. He's in SM64DS. They never said which version of SM64 :P
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 20, 2006, 10:16:31 PM
Perhaps these individuals thought they were being funny.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Blue Toad on May 20, 2006, 10:30:10 PM
It looks like once again, YR is completely ignored. >_>  Oh well, I understand how hard it is to read long posts.  I talk about dinosaurs in the Bible in my last post.

Haha, I know, your posts are so long.  You have to be in an educational spirit to truly take in all the meaning.
But, yeah, I basically believe that there's a lot of things that aren't truly meant for us to believe.  In fact, the fact that we don't understand is just proof of God's power, if you think about it.  So complex, and so "law" defying, that our minds can't even bear it!!!  XD
Such as saying that God was never created, he was always there.  You just can't solve for 'x'! 
You just need to be strong in your faith, and when the time comes, it will all come clearly.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Kuromatsu on May 21, 2006, 06:24:29 AM
When I die, and when I go to heaven, (if I go to heaven,) I will tell God to write "L is real 2041" somewhere in a cornfield.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on May 21, 2006, 09:19:42 AM
ProTip: If you want the world to make sense, don't take the Bible literally.
Corollary: If you want the Bible to make sense, don't take the world literally.


Well, different dating methods (i.e. carbon dating) have been found to not be all that accurate or reliable. For example (again, I don't have a source; sorry >_<), this group of scientists or archaeologists or both KNEW this building was 100 years old. They KNEW it; it was a complete fact. Using carbon dating (or some other "reliable" common method), the results said that the building was something like around 1000 to 50,000 years old (or some ridiculous amount like that; I don't remember the numbers, other than the difference was ENORMOUS between the carbon date and the actual date). There was absolutely no question about age of the building, yet look how extremely off and inaccurate the results were.
Could it be that the stones used to make the building were older than the building itself?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 21, 2006, 01:29:24 PM
Good point!  It's easy to miss that part.

MSM: XD Yeah, but you can't really tell God to do anything you can only ask.  Also, I believe that if someone doesn't know for sure if they're going to heaven, they should make sure and ask themselves some questions about their faith.  I'm not criticizing you, I'm just saying what I believe.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 21, 2006, 02:17:10 PM
Hmm, yes, what were they dating on this building?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 21, 2006, 02:21:05 PM
Can you believe that some idiot 6 idiots! said that they believe that Luigi is in SM64!

Not only that but who the crap believes in all of those mythical creatures for. THEY DON'T EXIST, THEY'RE MYTHS!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 21, 2006, 03:08:30 PM
Someone could say that about any of those things on that list. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it's not true--nor does it mean it is true, either. Believing any of those things requires some amount of faith, because none of them can absolutely be 100% proven. Well, except for maybe Luigi in SM64 and girls on the internet. XD
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 21, 2006, 03:11:33 PM
Girls on the internet too?  "Gotta have faith!  Faith!  Faith!"

TBT: That long post I had wasn't really that educational or tough to understand.  Anyone who can read can pretty much understand it. ;)  Dinosaurs could be in the Bible, but there's different names for them.  That's the basic thing I said in case anyone wanted to get the short, easy version.  However, I agree that educational posts can be hard to swallow.  And also that there's some things we'll never understand on this Earth.

Edit: Wah ha ha!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 21, 2006, 03:12:48 PM
Oh snap, you beat me and posted while I was editting. XD
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: TEM on May 21, 2006, 05:10:54 PM
It looks like once again, YR is completely ignored

Not completely, I read that part of your post. I just thought it was incorrect so I didn't factor it in to my post,.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Black Mage on May 21, 2006, 09:37:45 PM
The L is real 2041.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 22, 2006, 07:56:15 AM
In 1650, Archbishop James Ussher of the Church of Ireland made a careful study of the Bible and other historical sources and concluded, in a hefty tome called Annals of the Old Testament, that the Earth had been created at midday on October 23, 4004 B.C.

Cool.  But I have a question about that.  How do people figure out how old the Earth is from the ages of people in the Bible?  I know that the Bible tells how old people are before they die, but it doesn't mention how old they are when they have kids (at least I don't think).  So how does that work?

TEM: Oh, I see (sorry if I got a little impatient ^_^:).  Why do you think it was incorrect?  If the Bible is true and dinosaurs lived in history, there should be no trouble to believe that humans lived with them (and probably hunted them too).

The L is real 2041.
It's the Luigi Code! @_@

Edit: Remember that question about if the days of Creation were literal days?  I just learned something incredible from that Bible and dinosaur website I mentioned.  It mentions that God made dry land and plants on the third day, but He didn't make the sun until the fouth day (but light was made on the first day).  So if these days weren't literal days, how could the plants survive so long without sunlight?  If it was hundreds or millions of years, it would require God to keep them alive with something else.  Not that that couldn't be possible, but it does make you think.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on May 22, 2006, 01:40:03 PM
Quote
If the Bible is true and dinosaurs lived in history, there should be no trouble to believe that humans lived with them (and probably hunted them too).

Guess The Fintstones is more accurate than I thought. XD
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 22, 2006, 02:22:32 PM
Cool.  But I have a question about that.  How do people figure out how old the Earth is from the ages of people in the Bible?  I know that the Bible tells how old people are before they die, but it doesn't mention how old they are when they have kids (at least I don't think).  So how does that work?

I don't know any of the details. I just so happened to come across that in a book I was reading, A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson, and posted it to this relevent thread.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on May 22, 2006, 08:23:44 PM
I really have a very hard time believing that you would take the supposed order of creation literally. The sun existed long before the Earth did.
Remember when the church said that everything revolved around the Earth? How correct was that?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 22, 2006, 08:39:57 PM
I hereby award ten (10) points to Chupperson.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Sapphira on May 22, 2006, 08:50:45 PM
Proof?

[05/22, 22:27:40] Sapphira: why is either so "out of the question"?
[05/22, 22:27:56] Chupperson: the earth was not created before the sun and light was also not created before the sun
[05/22, 22:27:57] Sapphira: it's not like either can be absolutely proven
[05/22, 22:28:25] Chupperson: I'm sure it can be proven that the sun existed first
[05/22, 22:28:32] Sapphira: O RLY?
[05/22, 22:29:05] Chupperson: quite
[05/22, 22:29:31] Sapphira: how so?
[05/22, 22:29:38] Sapphira: prove it?
[05/22, 22:29:38] MegaByte-away: uh I think there was light before there was a sun (just not light from the sun obviously)

It's not like the sun is the only light source in the universe, and also that "light" could've, like, eminated literally from God himself before he created the physical sun.

As I said, it's not like either theory can absolutely be proven.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: G-Dawg on May 22, 2006, 09:00:42 PM
Has anyone answered the question about the Dino-theory yet?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 22, 2006, 09:07:35 PM
I'm really creeped out when people dismiss all the evidence we've gathered about stuff in the last four hundred years because it can't be absolutely proven. Well, nothing can. I kind of prefer to trust evidence, though, instead of magical tales that have no basis in anything besides a book and "deep personal feelings".
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on May 23, 2006, 07:47:49 PM
I hereby award a Golden Hot Dog to LD for tht post.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: PaperLuigi on May 23, 2006, 08:16:14 PM
God rocks my socks.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 25, 2006, 12:03:03 PM
G0d roxorz nny $0x0rz!

I really have a very hard time believing that you would take the supposed order of creation literally. The sun existed long before the Earth did.
Remember when the church said that everything revolved around the Earth? How correct was that?


CW: I know.  In my opinion it would make more sense for the sun, moon, and stars to appear before the dry land and plants, but I believe God can do anything so there's no problem.  In fact, it could actually be proof that God keeps things alive with his power and not by the heat from the sun alone.  Or maybe that plants needed one day (if it is a literal one day) to have no sunlight for some reason.  I dunno.

I didn't know that the church said that, but I know that the Bible says nothing like that so someone must have come up with it on their own.  Or had a different version. XD

I'm really creeped out when people dismiss all the evidence we've gathered about stuff in the last four hundred years because it can't be absolutely proven. Well, nothing can. I kind of prefer to trust evidence, though, instead of magical tales that have no basis in anything besides a book and "deep personal feelings".

LD: Yeah, people should search for proof before they just believe whatever they want to.  But what evidence are you talking about, just curious?  Sometimes I feel worried that some of the people who discover this evidence are telling lies or hiding the truth to shape the perception of reality. (I heard about a case where, in order to prove an evolutionary theory, people glued moths to a tree and took a picture of it to put in science books.  But I need to find out more about this to see if it's really true.  Unproven rumors are worthless, of course.)

Believing in God is much more than deep feelings.  At first (for me) it was about deep feelings which I believe were from God, but those feelings aren't always there and it takes faith to know that He's there.  I know for sure these feelings are more than guilt or being moved by music, but feelings that God gives to his followers so they will remember that He is with them and they will do the right things.  Feelings can't always be trusted, and it's not about feeling good but doing good.

However, I understand that there are some people who play on feelings just to trick people and take their money, and I really don't like that.  I bet that there's different types of people with certain beliefs who use them for either good or bad purposes.  We have to be careful all the time with who we trust and test their motives.

Also, speaking of telling lies or hiding the truth, I have to admit that I don't know very much about church history so I can't say what is true and what isn't.  I just know that (sorry I say this so much) I have seen a lot of great changes in people who trust in God, and I don't believe it's coincidence.  Also, I think that if the Bible wasn't true, or the most important parts of it, that people wouldn't risk their lives to be martyred for a lie.  Maybe some would, but I doubt as many as there are.

Sorry for the bad quoting.  I did that a little late. ^_^:
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 25, 2006, 01:25:57 PM
I was talking about evidence that the sun was older than the Earth (although not by a huge amount, since the whole solar system kind of formed at once). I've heard about that moth trickery, too, somewhere. I think it's true.

What about people who risk their lives for other religions? Doesn't that make their religions true, too?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on May 25, 2006, 01:35:56 PM
Oops!  Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot about that. *smack* Okay, yeah there probably are a lot of different martyrs for different religions and it's impossible to know all of the motives.  I guess I was thinking of the people who tell others their religion and are threatened to be killed if they do that.  I may need to do some more thinking and studying on this.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on May 25, 2006, 04:22:12 PM
I think that it's because most religeons are really similar when you think about it.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 25, 2006, 06:50:59 PM
Oops!  Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot about that. *smack* Okay, yeah there probably are a lot of different martyrs for different religions and it's impossible to know all of the motives.  I guess I was thinking of the people who tell others their religion and are threatened to be killed if they do that.  I may need to do some more thinking and studying on this.

Now, for the apostles, this holds true. In the early church, the apostles only had to denounce Christ, and they would be spared. If they didn't have comfidence in Christ's death and resurrection, why would they die. Of all people, they knew him the best. Why would they be willing to give up their lives for something that they knew was a farse?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 26, 2006, 01:32:02 AM
Muslim suicide bombers are giving up their lives right and left for Islam. It must be true? Praise Allah!
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on May 26, 2006, 01:47:32 PM
Muslim suicide bombers are giving up their lives right and left for Islam. It must be true? Praise Allah!

Alas, they are not first hand witnesses. You see, someone who dies today for the faith may indeed be incorrect. But someone who had first hand experience with the founder of the faith and would know the real truth of the resurrection would surely not give up his life if all he had to do was reject Christ.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Chupperson Weird on May 26, 2006, 04:20:25 PM
Apparently, the Bible does state that everything revolves around the Earth. Although, I'm pretty sure this is modeled after even older ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo#Church_controversy

Also, Sapphira seems to have left out a part of our little discussion:
[21:35:13] <Chupperson> <MegaByte-away> uh I think there was light before there was a sun (just not light from the sun obviously) <-- yeah I just meant specifically from our sun
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on June 10, 2006, 02:18:01 PM
Not only that but who the crap believes in all of those mythical creatures for. THEY DON'T EXIST, THEY'RE MYTHS!

Sorry to bump, but I just remembered something I wanted to say. 

Some creatures that people have called mythical in the past have actually turned out to be real later.  For instance, some people believed the gorilla was a monster born from a demon (I think) and that it ate people.  Then we discovered that this creature actually DID exist but it didn't act like these people said it did.  So ordinary creatures that could exist but we haven't found yet, are given super powers or legends and they make us think that they couldn't be real.  But maybe they are and just don't live like that!  Here's the link where I heard about this: http://www.newanimal.org/pongo.htm (http://www.newanimal.org/pongo.htm)

Quote
According to African folklore, the pongo was a wild man of the jungles. Looking like a cross between a human and a monkey, he was a violent creature with magical powers. He relished the taste of human flesh, often raiding villages in order to carry away captives for purposes of cannibalism or rape. Sometimes the pongo was a shapeshifter. Female pongos would turn into beautiful women to get close to male victims, then change back to their true forms when it was too late for the men to escape. Pongos and humans could mate and produce hybrid children who looked human, but who had violent, cannibalistic urges from their pongo side.

Pongo reports were understandably met with much skepticism in the scientific community. The pongo had so many supernatural characteristics and behaviors not typical of a biological animal that it just didn't seem like it would ever turn out to be real. These aspects of the pongo from folklore squarely place it within the "big hairy monster" or "hairy biped" category of anomalous cousins of Bigfoot.

The entire world was surprised when, in 1847, the pongo (now known as the gorilla) was officially declared to exist. Of course, it didn't have any of the weird characteristics assigned to it by folklore. The real gorilla is a vegetarian, not a predator. It doesn't capture humans, it doesn't eat humans, and it can't reproduce with humans. Its official discovery hasn't stopped the flow of legends that claim otherwise, but now science can clearly separate the gorilla of myth and the real animal. Still, the animal's outlandish mythical features were acknowledged in its very name: "gorilla" is derived from the Arabic word for "ghoul."

The story of the pongo's official discovery teaches us that any cryptid, however fantastic it seems, might be real. Supernatural or fantastical characteristics are no reason to disqualify a cryptid from further investigation. In fact, European folklore from little more than a hundred years ago assigns many supernatural abilities and odd behaviors to real animals such as wolves, eagles and mice. We now know that these superstitious ideas are false, even though the animals themselves are indisputably real.

So, we should remember that we probably don't know everything about this world right now and that there's got to be plenty more great things to discover.  Not that all mythical creatures are real but not that all aren't either.  If we shut our minds to new thoughts and ideas then we set ourselves up to never learn anything new (or fool ourselves into believing lies).  The world was only flat for those who believed it was.

(I said all of that stuff just as a reminder and not to anyone in particular)
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: nensondubois on June 15, 2006, 10:42:59 AM
I believe in greek ledgends,aliens,elvis presley. and what about coincidences?Do you belivie in greek ledgends?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Luigison on June 15, 2006, 12:09:56 PM
I think it's disturbing that every choice in this survey has at least one believer. 

Edit:  Except of course for "None of these things".
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Koopaslaya on June 15, 2006, 12:27:13 PM
...and no one believes in the existence of the secret page.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on June 15, 2006, 01:00:51 PM
I beleive in it. I just wish I could find it. Any one have a hint?
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: MaxVance on June 15, 2006, 01:05:12 PM
Deezer gave us this one:
Quote from: Deezer
What once was lost, now is found. Or is it the other way around? Run to the end. Look to the sky. Don't try to jump--it's up way too high. Nine of us in all, unlocked by the sound.

What's really disturbing is that there are still 8 people who believe Luigi is in SM64.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Yoshisaurus Rex on June 15, 2006, 03:23:08 PM
I also used to think that L is real but thankfullly I gave up soon after searching for awhile.  I thought that the numbers after "L is real" were a code for the number of times you pound the four posts in Bob-Omb Battlefield or something, but nothing worked.  It was still fun for awhile though.  I wonder if Luigi will show up in Super Mario Galaxy or if they'll keep up the tradition of ditching him.

It may seem rediculous to believe in any of those things but don't forget that there's some things we can never disprove as long as there are unexplored, locations, planets, and possibly dimensions in the universe.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: fuzzy on June 15, 2006, 04:18:11 PM
Nintendo needs to stop ditching Luigi!  We are getting sick of Mario hogging the spotlight.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on June 15, 2006, 04:22:15 PM
Who's we? I could really care less if Luigi isn't there. Besides, the jokes about his unpopularity in M&L are pure gold.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: fuzzy on June 15, 2006, 06:19:53 PM
'We' as in Mario fans.  I like those jokes too, but Luigi needs to be at least mention in all Mario adventure games.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: BP on June 15, 2006, 06:20:27 PM
No, Luigi has to sleep off the huge headache he got in M&L:PiT from the constant things-falling-on-his-head.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on June 16, 2006, 10:06:32 AM
fuzzy: How do you know that every Mario fan loves Luigi?

Bird Person: I LOL'd at that one. XD
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: fuzzy on June 16, 2006, 12:36:31 PM
I know that I love Luigi (more than Mario) but I just think he should be included in more games because he is a hero too.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on June 16, 2006, 02:34:25 PM
I think Luigi should be given his own series. I think that instead of remaking the old platformers on GBA, they should've given the handheld games to Luigi(sorta like what they did with Wario on the old Game Boy) while Mario, being the lead character, would have the console games.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: MaxVance on June 16, 2006, 02:58:20 PM
Luigi already had Mario is Missing! and Luigi's Mansion. Two games kinda counts as a series...
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: fuzzy on June 16, 2006, 03:04:19 PM
The series needs more.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: Bigluigifan1.0 on June 16, 2006, 03:09:55 PM
I can't call two games that hardly have anything to do with each other a series, he needs a "series" as in the Super Mario Bros." series, that is what it means.
Title: Re: I Don't Believe It!
Post by: The Chef on June 16, 2006, 04:46:05 PM
I could've been called Luigi Land and had Waluigi as the villan and Daisy as a supporting character(not damsel, she's too tomboyish). This could've been used tp give Luigi some recognition and differentiate between handheld titles and console titles(sorta like what they did with Wario on the old Game Boy).