Luigison's Dual #1: The Chinese Room

[Weegee]

That, and the term "meat machines" deliberately accentuates our supposed futility, putting humans in a lower light than other oragnisms.

*Bracing for move to NatDT in 3... 2...*

[PaperLuigi]

Believe what you want to believe. Being called a machine doesn't bother me a bit.

[Turtlekid1]

I have a feeling that if you were treated as a machine, it would bother you.

[Trainman]

He's not angry he just has his own way of explaining things.

Yeah, that UGH [wtd] IS THIS AND WHY???? way.

[PaperLuigi]

I have a feeling that if you were treated as a machine, it would bother you.

Not entirely sure what you mean by that. I treat my machines with care and respect.

[Turtlekid1]

I'm sure you take good care of them, but is that for their benefit, or your own?

Also, how can you respect an inanimate object?

[PaperLuigi]

Also, how can you respect an inanimate object?

Um...I just do?

[Black Mage]

I think he's getting at the why. Do you respect your machines because by doing so you're ensuring that they will continue to operate for your benefit in the future, or are you doing it because you care about their position and stature in "life"?

Assuming you respect other people's property, you don't do it because of the property itself, but because it has value to another human being-- a human being you at some level have respect for.

I think the point is you treat "machines" and humans differently (and you'd be insane not to), and if you were fine with being treated as a machine, you'd be saying you're fine with being treated as a lesser. Personally, I think that's a weird place to take the discussion and ultimately is irrelevant.

"Meat Machine," at least to me, has a negative connotation. As I believe being "human" is something intrinsically valuable, removing that from the equation will of course devalue it.

[Glorb]

Cynicism has become synonymous with intelligence. These days, no scientific mind will be taken seriously unless he holds a postmodern, misanthropic viewpoint. Hence, "meat machines".

Holy [dukar], for once I agree with Weegee (and his cool tophat dude). I don't see why people view cynicism and cold detachment as anything resembling a positive trait; if you feel the need to refer to human beings as "meat machines" and the like without any hint of irony (or realization that you sound like Invader Zim), prove yourself correct. Go strip butt nekkid and mate in the woods with all the other free will-less humanoids like you're apparently supposed to.

[Luigison]

I think I was the first person to use the term "meat machines" in this thread, but I did not intend to lessen the value of human life by it.  I used the term "absurd" and "merely" to show my disgust with the idea.  (I first read the term decades ago in a science fiction story.)  PaperLuigi's "very complex programs" sounds better and may be closer to the truth, but I still get this nagging feeling that my whole is greater than the sum of my parts.  Complexity can rise from randomness though.  Maybe this feeling is just my own feeble mind trying to continue an illusion. 

When I was about seven or eight years old someone about my same age came over to visit.  We were playing darts in the carport when my visitor discovered a frog and start throwing darts at and hitting it.  This made me sick and angry.  I'd had not problem throwing darts at the board, wall, or even a bike tire, but seeing someone hurting another living thing hurt me.  Is this feeling of value for life an innate thing that most of us have?  I say this to make the point that I'd value life over a nonliving machine no matter if the organism had a soul or the machine was sentient. 
 
In case it was taken seriously I'd like to also point out that my third post was simply a joke that paraphrased a movie, song, and internet memes to follow Glorb's joke (I assume). 

[PaperLuigi]

Like I said, such things are ultimately unknowable. I don't know if I'm just "complex program" or "a being made in the image of God" and I honestly don't care.

[nensondubois]

The only possible outcome that is left is to find our non-perpetual reason of existence by self exertion, which of course is inherently just a matter of faith.

You cannot program souls, not experiences bought on by countless factors to make decisions, nor DNA for that matter into silicon chips. Maybe when Moar's law finally hits; "nanomachines" will ultimately prevail human design. I try not to think of these things in a daily basis to prevent myself from going postal.

A can just imagine a C64 being breast-fed while wearing a diaper, then later wearing pajamas, than a business suit.

[PaperLuigi]

Is this feeling of value for life an innate thing that most of us have?

I think so. In some, said feelings have been conveniently engineered out via upbringing.

Again though, these things are ultimately unknowable. We will never know if we have free will or not because this isn't something you can test for. We might as well just make the best of it and just live.

[Trainman]

...just live.

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

/thread