Fungi Forums
Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: bobbysq1337 on March 03, 2016, 04:50:49 PM
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Announcement here (https://youtu.be/arl3ACzJCBI?t=752)
Well, at least it doesn't look like NSMB. I'm still concerned about the battle system though, but if there are Action commands, I'm happy.
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SNES titles exclusive to New 3DS, Sticker Star 2: Disappointment Boogaloo... hoo boy.
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What an easy mistake to not make again and then they went and ****ing did it
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I'm mad at myself for letting myself get my hopes up when I heard the rumors. I mean really, I should have realized they weren't going to take the time to make an actual Paper Mario with the NX so close. But now with this, Paper Jam, and Sticker Star, I think it's safe to say that the Paper Mario we knew from the first three games -- games with a living, breathing world filled with interesting characters, with exciting stories and adventures and immersive world-building all while being clever and funny and endearing and sometimes sad -- is completely dead and replaced by this thing, much like how Donkey Kong '94 and Mario vs. Donkey Kong morphed into a weird make-your-own-Lemmings series.
"With Paper Mario, we always challenge ourselves to bring something fresh to the action-adventure genre."
Paper Mario is not an RPG anymore. It's a level-based game where Paper Mario (who is not Mario) does awkward platforming and obtuse puzzle-solving and finds Paper Toads who don't even have different spot colors. No more Goombas in college. No more penguin murder mysteries. No more corrupt wrestling federations. No more ancient alien queens. No more flower monarchs poisoning their neighboring nation. If you want a vision of the future, imagine a sticker with a picture of a boot on it stamping on a stack of Paper Toads, forever.
Federation Force looks interesting, tho
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I'm at least excited for the Dragon Quest remakes, Bravely Second (censorship included), and MechaKirby.
It blows my mind to think that Sticker Star was a financial and critical success. It got 6/7/8's from most reviewers.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3irbsRozEk
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Yeah, Dragon Quest VII looks pretty great. Oh, and Rhythm Heaven!
Let's talk about literally everything else; it's less depressing.
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Will I burned at the stake as a heretic for saying I like what I see of Federation Force?
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They turned off likes/dislikes on the newest trailer after two hours, so maybe.
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I think it will be better than Sticker Star in any case; it looks like an actual deep story again, but I could be wrong. I'll still wait for the battle system to actually be revealed. I'm surprised they didn't really bring that up in the Direct.
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No love for TMS #FE? (Wow it feels weird calling it that)
Honestly that and portable EarthBound were really hype, along with Dragon Quest VII.
Maybe it's just because I love the absurdity of a half dragon/half small child being a J-Pop idol, but I actually like the setting for #FE.
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What I find worst is how they act like Paper Mario has always been this. You can't do that, you can't rewrite history, not when history is presently on the Virtual Console for everyone to see.
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I'll still wait for the battle system to actually be revealed. I'm surprised they didn't really bring that up in the Direct.
Watch the trailer closely, there's a part where Mario gets "worn shoes x3" from a box or something. Looks like it'll be similar to Sticker Star...
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You can also see a shop advertising cards with boot and hammer symbols.
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Watch the trailer closely, there's a part where Mario gets "worn shoes x3" from a box or something. Looks like it'll be similar to Sticker Star...
It's like they heard people complaining that Sticker Star wasn't similar enough to the previous (turn based non-platformer RPG) Paper Mario game, so they made the game similar to the previous Paper Mario game.
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No love for TMS #FE? (Wow it feels weird calling it that)
Oh wow I just realized it's SMT backwards
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I think this timeline is worse than the one where they never made any Paper Mario games after SPM. At least with F-Zero, we can dream that someday it'll come back, but if Paper Mario just becomes the Sticker Star series from now on, it can't come back.
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As the universe's only Sticker Star fan, I'm not enraged.
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I still think SPM wasn't that good. Its flow is awful, its character design and stories mostly forgettable, most of its worlds not very interesting.
This, coming from someone who originally really liked it and changed his mind over time
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If Color Splash takes Sticker Star's battle system and actually improves it, I might buckle down and play it. Not even joking.
Super Paper Mario is a game I really need to replay.
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SPM is like John Kasich -- there's actually a lot of problems when you look closer and it's not what we should go with in the future, but at least it's in the right category of thing -- the category of Paper Mario game for SPM, and the category of an adult running for president for Kasich. Trump is Sticker Star, either Rubio or Cruz is Color Splash -- they can be entertaining in their own way, but it's not what was supposed to be going on here. Bernie is Thousand-Year Door (good, though also getting really old now). Hillary is Paper Jam I guess?
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Why does everything have to be politics?
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It's just what's on everyone's brain lately. And it made for a funny post. Good on you, CrossEyed.
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So what you're saying, CE, is that the future is Trump.
Anyway, I just don't know what to think with Miyamoto anymore.
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Martin O'Malley was PM64
Jim Webb was Call of Duty
Lincoln Chafee was the shirt paint spitting minigame from Superstar Saga
Ben Carson was Trauma Center Surgeon Simulator
this analogy is getting stretched too thin now
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F533%2F426%2F6f9.jpg&hash=f73af4898a108f5ed37c57092807392b)
But in all seriousness, it sucks that the PM franchise is a lost cause, but I actually liked what I saw from the Direct overall.
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthemushroomkingdom.net%2Fimages%2Fss%2Fpmcs%2F3.jpg&hash=c2b5ed43d839d417f5166c8008614a34)
I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I mean it does kinda look like they might have made the locations a little less generic. Maybe. I don't know, the train seems nice, and I like that it kinda looks like a cohesiveish world map.
And when Mario lands on that top spot, it doesn't have a level number, just a name, so I was thinking "oh, maybe it's just like the SMRPG world map"...
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWKBf2uD.png&hash=e9421cbbb9ab51554310a631ecf5be64)
but that's definitely an end-of-level star.
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That looks more like the red star from Mario Galaxy.
At the very least I can say this looks visually better than Sticker Star.
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The graphics are beautiful. Fits in perfectly with the material look of Woolly World and Rainbow Curse. The cardboard trees, the ? Block that's made of unevenly folded paper with a tab folded under the top flap when you hit it open, the construction paper on the ground that curls up at the corners... ugghh i kinda hate that it looks so good
The title card for that level shows two empty stars along with the percentage of colorless spots filled, so maybe that red star is actually a collectible?
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Kinda unrelated, but it bugs me that this is always called Paper Mario: Splatoon.
A better comparison would be Paper Mario: de Blob.
Though if this game does end up being more like TTYD, as improbable as it may be, then that would be excellent.
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I've just suddenly remembered this (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=14216.msg610342#msg610342).
Specifically, after the release of Super Mario Brothers (the 1993 family comedy), an addition was made to employee contracts banning the use of scripts in Mario related media, which went fully into effect after 9 years.
It seems apropos.
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.
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The graphics are beautiful. Fits in perfectly with the material look of Woolly World and Rainbow Curse. The cardboard trees, the ? Block that's made of unevenly folded paper with a tab folded under the top flap when you hit it open, the construction paper on the ground that curls up at the corners... ugghh i kinda hate that it looks so good
I really like how after overplaying the "Mario is paper" thing in Sticker Star and Paper Jam, they put in the effort to make it look the part. The Wii U's power is definitely being shown off to its full potential here.
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The title card for that level shows two empty stars along with the percentage of colorless spots filled, so maybe that red star is actually a collectible?
Actually that's probably just alternate level exits.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBbcaLsyZI
A video where a Muppet says everything I've been saying, except better and cuter
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Well put, Muppet.
I think the bottom line is that they aren't making deep games because it's isn't cost-effective. They could probably crap out five Sticker Star sequels on the same budget it would take to make a proper TTYD follow-up. The only ones complaining about these games are those old enough to have played the first two PMs. Nintendo has conditioned most younger buyers into accepting simple, easy-to-produce output by offering no alternative.
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Kids have alternatives, and that's why I heard one of them see the retro pixel Mario amiibo and say "It's Minecraft Mario"
And if they're not playing Minecraft, kids these days are totally playing Call of Duty from, like, age baby and a half
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I mean Nintendo isn't giving alternatives. If you want new Mario, your only option is simple Mario with six characters.
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Three out of the eight or so real Mario RPGs are up on the Wii U Virtual Console at least.
I'm not usually the "your opinion is wrong" type anymore after I stopped being a fundamentalist (circa 2012-2013ish), but I still get the urge to say that when I see people saying Sticker Star is just as good as the originals. I hate that this is going to become okay. What really gets me is the ones who say "oh, what, you expected a story in a Mario game?" Yes! Yes I did expect a story in this spin-off Mario series where the whole point was that it had a story! That's like if they made a Mario Tennis game with no tennis in it; it was just the Psynergy training minigames from the GBA one, and it wasn't labeled as a spinoff or anything, that's just what Mario Tennis is now, and they were like "What's the problem? SMB3 didn't have any tennis in it."
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To be fair, the first two games are titled "Mario Story" and "Paper Mario RPG" in Japan. The rest all have pretty much identical titles to their western releases, all of which notably lack any references to stories or RPGs.
Digest this food for thought however you wish.
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That's the tastiest food The Chef has ever cooked me.
Man's got a point!
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True, but if Paper Mario is going to go from being a Mario series defined by having stories and characters and experience points to being a Mario series where Peach doesn't do anything and Bowser doesn't say anything and there's no characters other than Toads and the only thing that separates it from the main series anymore is the art style, why even bother?
Sticker Star did a lot of interesting things and had some welcome fresh ideas, but there was no reason they couldn't have put all the good parts of it into an actual Paper Mario game. Having a battle system based entirely around disposable/discardable items and having an actual story are not mutually exclusive. Baten Kaitos had a card-based battle system and an interesting story; why can't Color Splash have both?
I would have forgiven them if Sticker Star was a one-off experimental thing where they didn't bother writing a story so they could focus all their energy on figuring out the gameplay system they wanted to use going forward, and then after that they'd be free to spend part of their time building on the system that they remade from the ground up in Sticker Star and part of their time writing the stories and fleshing out the characters, and four years later they could make a game that plays like an improved version of Sticker Star and has the worldbuilding of TTYD -- but no, they're just making a game that plays like Sticker Star and also still has all the character of Sticker Star.
The graphics are amazing, but other than that, how have they improved on Sticker Star? How have they built on it? The trailer they showed is just Sticker Star HD, except instead of peeling stickers off the walls everywhere, you hit circles with your hammer everywhere to do the same thing, and instead of paperizing to stick a thing in an empty space, you hit an empty space with your hammer and a thing fills in. The gameplay looks pretty much the same, and the characters are all still generic Toads.
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I wonder if the sticker star battle system lacks partners simply because having actual characters would look out of place in the world.
Of course, they at least thought of it:
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcelebteenlaundry.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2FPaper-Mario-3DS1.jpg&hash=cfd7b75e4aecb84118c0a9d53c8bbe76)
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True, but if Paper Mario is going to go from being a Mario series defined by having stories and characters and experience points to being a Mario series where Peach doesn't do anything and Bowser doesn't say anything and there's no characters other than Toads and the only thing that separates it from the main series anymore is the art style, why even bother?
Sticker Star is still technically a different genre than regular Mario. It's more of a Zelda-style puzzling adventure game that still has turn-based battles for whatever reason.
Now that I think of it, I think Intelligent Systems would've been better off excising the battles entirely and focusing all of their time and resources on devising more and better puzzles where you play with the environment. At least then people would know it's ostensibly not a regular Japanese RPG anymore.
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Of course, they at least thought of it:
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcelebteenlaundry.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F11%2FPaper-Mario-3DS1.jpg&hash=cfd7b75e4aecb84118c0a9d53c8bbe76)
Now see, that's back when the game was going to have partners and a story, and looking at it now, those are stickers in attack slots -- it looks like it's already pretty much the final battle sys...
wait a minute
[quote author=bobbysq1337 link=topic=14842.msg616841#msg616841 date=1457627808]
Of course, they at least thought of it:
[img]http://celebteenlaundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Paper-Mario-3DS1.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
celebteenlaundry?
...do I want to know what that is?
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I hope that as more information comes out about this game that Nintendo will give me more reasons than "It's Gorgeous!" to play this game. Because it sure is gorgeous. But if I'm going to spend 50/60 on a game I should probably be looking forward to more than just the visuals.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY3fa6TKWVo
bad-type words
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzZK-LGwPz8
Same warning as above.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR11d5I-5RQ
Mario & Luigi is supposed to be the replacement goldfish for Paper Mario?
Pity M&L hasn't been any good since the original, then
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I liked Dream Team, though that was largely because I played it right after Sticker Star, and I was like "Ooh look! Dialogue! Characters! Lore! Returning characters and species from previous games in the series!" and probably kind of overlooked all the issues with it. Paper Jam looks really boring from the Let's Play I've been watching of it.
I think somewhere else in the Tabata interview she said that since M&L is the RPG series now, PM is gonna focus more on "humor and puzzle-solving"... which, like, isn't that what M&L does? I mean, Superstar Saga was pretty much a straight-up comedy -- all the towns/races are named after onomatopoeias for laughing -- and the entire overworld gameplay of M&L (aside from the minigames and the battles (which are basically minigames now)) is getting new Bros moves that let you solve puzzles to move to new areas -- there's no fetch quests or "hunt 5 Goombas" quests or key-item-dialogue-tree-trading-quest things. They've actually made the two series more similar (especially since the most recent M&L has no original characters).
You can make a Paper Mario game that's not an RPG. You don't need stats and experience points and turn-based battles, you just need Goombas that go to college. If they think they can only have one series that's technically in the JRPG genre, okay, whatever, but if by that they also mean they can only have one series with overworlds and named characters, then why even bother still making games called Paper Mario? I just don't understand what role Paper Mario is supposed to fill now.
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This is actually a pretty similar phenomenon with what happened to the 3D titles over time. After 64 and Sunshine, SMG and especially SMG2 started trying harder to make each stage work like a level from the 2D games. Culminated in 3D Land where they stopped even trying to pretend that they wanted 3D games to be any different in essence from the sidescrollers.
And it's not like 3D Land and its successors were unenjoyable or badly designed in and of themselves. It's that you start remembering that those other parts of the 3D titles - the openness of a main hub, the "choose your order" for tackling stage goals, the many possible approaches and paths in each stage - those parts seem to be destined never to return.
And it's not like they couldn't put out an open, SM64-style 3D game alongside a more linear one. It's that Nintendo actually seems to think they're scratching that itch already just by adding a Z Axis, conflating that with the non-linearity that happened to accompany it earlier on. Just like they think they're satisfying the Paper Mario fans by simply making another game with the paper aesthetic and visual gimmicks, believing it was just the art style that people liked - not the depth of characters (heh) and mechanics and world building from the earlier games. Also illustrated by their answering fan demand for another Metroid Prime... with Federation Force
Ironically, given this refusal to acknowledge the series' pasts, their adherence to prior formula is what's really hurting them the most right now. They're hitting all the right notes (they seemingly believe) that came before while stripping out the accidental (I increasingly believe) quirks.
But it's kind of like that one episode of Arthur (http://arthur.wikia.com/wiki/How_the_Cookie_Crumbles) where the whole gang bakes these amazing cookies to help Muffy win a contest. As they make them, it's clearly just off-the-cuff fun, each character contributing something to the mixture, and the result is as inadvertent as it is tasty. When the cookies are a big hit and she tries to recreate them by herself, based on her own incomplete knowledge of what made them good in the first place, they're terrible. They were only ever good because of the quirks and flavors (i.e., "unnecessary fluff") inserted as part of the act of initial creation.
With Paper Mario, creation is no longer what is occurring; rather, it's just an attempt at recreation. Following a recipe which they only think they've committed to memory, but losing sight of the ingredients that made the first batch delicious.
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Yeah, it's an awkward feeling, playing the "New"/"3D" games (or at least trying to explain how I feel about them) -- they're fun, and polished, like a Nintendo game almost always incomparably is, but the imagination is... well, not gone, but definitely tempered.
In any case, yeah, this seemingly growing gap between what they apparently think their audience wants and what they deliver is bizarre, especially in this social media-mad, always-connected era. Obviously, they don't have to listen to what "we" want, but it's definitely impossible to ignore now.
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What's really frustrating is when they make a crappy game, the fans hate it, and then they say "This franchise isn't popular anymore, better end it."
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Does that actually happen, though? The two things I always see that applied to are Metroid and Paper Mario, but those series are still (technically) alive.
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I think it's more of a fear for the future than an established precedent, though perhaps not entirely unfounded.
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Star Fox lay dormant for a decade.
I'll be surprised if we ever see another Chibi Robo after that infuriatingly slow-paced sidescroller got middling reviews. Fun fact, Zip Lash doesn't even have its own Wikipedia article. Instead it's relegated to a three-sentence subsection of the entry about the whole series.
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Ouch. Yeah, that was a series that didn't get the follow-ups it deserved. Chibi-Robo is a bona fide sleeper hit in my book, but I heard that DS sequel (which was exclusive to Wal-Mart for no apparent reason) was lacking, and now Zip Lash isn't even worth a bullet point.
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It's Wikipedia. Either of you could give it a page if you wanted.
Zip Lash wasn't great-tier, but it wasn't disagreeable. I wouldn't recommend someone go buy it but I also wouldn't feel bad for them if they received it as a gift.
You can't hold the slow-pacedness against it; that's kind of Chibi-Robo's thing. It was a game about scrubbing the floor with a toothbrush. The platformer is actually a nonstop thrillride in comparison.
The important part about Zip Lash was actually the amiibo. It's my favorite one!
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The pacing worked great for the original, but Zip Lash made me want to bash my head against a wall.
That said, the Amiibo is indeed one of the best ever.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agkV28jRnJ8
Are these actual characters? There's still some hope for the game yet, even if the actual gameplay is completely screwed.
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yay more toads 😞
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By 2020 Peach and Bowser will be Toads.
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I do have to say, the Rescue V feel like they might have been intended as intentional callbacks to the Axem Rangers and the Koopa Bros., which is nice, and it's the closest Paper Mario has come to trying to be Paper Mario since 2007... but then they summon giant waves of Toads and it just feels like they're mocking us at this point.
If you want to hold out some hope, there's the fact that Color Splash started development pretty much immediately after Sticker Star shipped, so they didn't give themselves any time to listen to feedback (which was pretty stupid), so now if they make another one, this time they'll be ready to react to our feedback from 2012. But I'm pretty sure this is just what Paper Mario is going to be from now on.
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The main difference is that the Koopa Bros. were an obvious TMNT spoof, the Axem Rangers were a general/mostly 90s Super Sentai spoof, while Rescue V up there are a dead-on parody of the original Himitsu Sentai Goranger (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvaTZ5-baxk), right down to the grainy film stock and 70s music. This I like.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIzqblAsiBk
(also, it looks like TMK needs to update how YT embeds work since it seems to be loading the Flash version of the videos for me)
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A Conversation With Paper Mario: Color Splash Producer Risa Tabata (http://www.usgamer.net/articles/risa-tabata-on-paper-mario-color-splash)
There's a developer by the name of Taro Kudo who worked on the previous game as well, and he's been basically the overall director for the story and the dialogue in this game. He's very very good at coming up with gags and jokes, but he's also very good at crafting a good story. And I think if you play the game to the end, you may actually cry at the end. We did some test plays and there really were people who cried at the end.
Checkmate, Color Splash haters
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Tears of joy that it was over?
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lemme guess huey is gonna sacrifice himself at the end like kersti did
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New video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZyerryUkoc
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This game is freaking beautiful.
It still doesn't look like the game I want Paper Mario to be, but [darn] is it pretty.
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I think the worlds and environments are cool, but I'll still not convinced on the battles. The battles may be better than Sticker Star, but still not up to N64/GCN era.
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Paper Koopa Kids! That's pretty cool.
Still not impressed with Mario's overalls. er.. still not impressed with the game overall.
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It's weird how I wanted Koopalings to come back so bad 10-15 years ago and now they're just Nintendo's symbol for "yeah we still don't feel like coming up with any real bosses."
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The Ukiki's Paw
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I kinda hoped they'd do something crazy with them like the big mech suits in Yoshi's Safari. This looks a little closer to that than anything the NSMBs did, at any rate.
Given that 3D World gave us a whole swarth of new bosses, there's a good chance the next "main" Mario game will do the same, right?
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So this game takes place on Prism Island, confirmed to be separate from the Mushroom Kingdom. Let's look at all the other times Mario has left the Mushroom Kingdom:
-Sunshine: Piantas, Nokis, etc
-Superstar Saga: Beanish, Hoohoo people, etc
-TTYD: So many different species I can't make a full list. Also the original PM even though it WAS Mushroom Kingdom, did this too.
-SPM: Again a variety of different species, most of them are designed around geometry and shapes.
-Galaxy/Galaxy 2: Lumas, Star Bunnies, Gearmos, Whittles, etc
-Dream Team: Pi'illos, Shelltops, Brocks, etc
-3D World: Sprixies
-Color Splash: .....Toads
yeeeaaaah anyone else think the "Sticker Star Effect" is causing them to ignore even the most obvious traditions even the main series has been following?
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Color Splash opens with Mario getting a letter that's actually a folded-up paint-drained Toad, which motivates him to go check out the island. Maybe Mario still gets requests for help from non-Toad species but he's gotten xenophobic in his old age.
Wahoo! Make the Mushroom Kingdom great again! Build a wall and make Queen Bean pay for it!
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Anyone taken one for the team and bought it yet?
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...I kinda want it. It looks like it's pretty good at being what it's trying to be.
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It's not hard to be a disappointment.
...Trust me.
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It's good, but then again, I didn't automatically hate it when it resembled Sticker Star and not Thousand Year Door. The story is actually funny and interesting. Even though Toads comprise ALMOST every NPC, several of them are all their own character. The game is also self-aware of the fact that its main NPCs are Toads, although I don't know how much of that was just the localization team messing with people. I mean, I just didn't immediately hate it, and I find self-referential humor funny. The game excels at what it means to, which makes it a good, fun game to me.
Maybe I'm just a raving lunatic for liking something most people intended to hate several months in advance.
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I was seeing a lot of people turn around, give it a chance, and describe good first impressions.
Too bad I'm busy. I've yet to play the last two Ace Attorney games (or Layton vs. Wright, or the AAI spinoffs!) and have been getting ready to do that. I got Pikmin 3 a ways back and still haven't started it. I didn't finish Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon or Dark Souls 3. I really should get back to Metroid Prime 2 someday. I'm still meaning to play Wario Land 4, Shake It and Wario World so I can start complaining about the Wario hiatus two-fold. I think I'll probably really like Fallout: New Vegas when I give it more attention. I liked what I played of BioShock Infinite and have to give that another go, hopefully a go that won't be sabotaged by faulty autosaves. There's this game called Redout that looks like the successor to F-Zero I've wanted, and I'm dying to play that
I've got a large backlog. Maybe in twelve or fifteen years I'll get to Color Splash, since it'll definitely be beloved and remembered
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Most of those are in my backlog too, actually. Warioland 4's really good, though; you're gonna love it.
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I want to get it, but my lack of Wii U is stopping me.
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(https://d3esbfg30x759i.cloudfront.net/ss/WVW69jvnHgsFCIERB4)
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(https://imgur.com/tOy1aNm)
How do post pictures because every time I try it just has a ? in a blue square. Blue ? block perhaps?
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You were using the url for the Imgur page for that picture; you gotta use the url for the picture itself, which usually ends in .png or .jpg or whatever
(https://i.imgur.com/tOy1aNm.jpg)
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You were using the url for the Imgur page for that picture; you gotta use the url for the picture itself, which usually ends in .png or .jpg or whatever
(https://i.imgur.com/tOy1aNm.jpg)
Thanks
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkM5tD6c.jpg&hash=0f3e18303dfdf3d5751399e9f8f28293)
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