Fungi Forums
Miscellaneous => General Chat => Topic started by: Trainman on September 28, 2009, 05:21:29 AM
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Yes, this should probably be in Site Discussion; however, hardly anyone checks that leg of the forum, so this topic would probably sink to the bottom of the list quickly if it were there. I was going to reply to the "Going Away, Signed TMK Member" topic of how the board is increasingly going down into the pit of despair, but I want to keep that topic on track and feel that this issue needs its own thread. Also, I want to tie any discussions about how annoying the forum can be into this sole thread so complaints/suggestions can actually be heard and not be flooded out or continue to aid any topics' deaths.
This thread is for discussing any changes for the better that this forum needs... be it preventing topics from being horribly derailed, spammed to death with unnecessary Google image search pictures, and/or turning into a let's-try-and-one-up-each-other-or-talk-crap-for-a-couple-pages fest.
You could argue that the forum isn't in that bad of shape; however, this is a prevention thread... as in, the forum is starting to show possible signs of decay and we need to be aware of all this and address it before it really takes off and, like the title states, goes down the crapper.
Moving on with one of the issues brought up at the "Going Away" topic (and what my original post in "Going Away" was going to be):
conversations turning into a memefest, ["who's funnier" fest], or an unsupported-ragefest
Yeah, I agree 110% that that is what this forum has stooped down to.
You know, it's okay if people post 50 pictures of dumb, Google image search crap as long as it stays in the appropriate thread(s). Topics are turning into pictures upon pictures of crap related to just one person's unintentionally "funny" post or what-have-you and completely dismantling the original purpose of the thread.
It's particularly annoying to start a legitimate thread and have it trashed with overly-large pictures that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Also, an alarming number of threads are being derailed within the second or third page of posting which is annoying when legit posts or legit replies to other posts are flooded out by pictures or members just posting just to say something they think is absolutely hilarious.
I could go on a bit, but I don't need this first post to get any longer.... so discuss.
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You quoted me quoting Captain Jim...
Well, Mario being a plumber and all, I think this forum metaphorically being in a toilet might actually help its image.
But seriously, so people are having problems with threads getting off-topic? Hey, it's the internet--impermanence is the name of the game. The way I see it, even when "derailed", the original conversation usually bounces back. If it doesn't, then maybe it's usually a sign it wasn't worth talking about in the first place. If anything, I've laughed more and been flamed less in the last few months than any other time in the past, and it only stops when someone starts complaining about memefests, etc. (which I don't think we've ever really had lately--the last true-blue meme I remember seeing around here--shoop da woop--was actually posted by me, and there were swift calls for my detention)
Have there been topics that have spun wildly out of control because of a few well-timed macros or photoshops? Well, sure, and I guess it irritates me sometimes, but I've been taking political science classes and I've learned something I kind of knew before: Radical revolution never works out as well as gradual change. If we let all this craziness run its course, maybe it'll do just that and pan out. Or not. All I'm saying is, we can't just all sit down around a huge table and vow to never be weird or irrationally angry again; for one, we don't have a table, and for two, it flies in the face of parts of all of our natures while also expecting a bunch of people who probably haven't met get their acts together at the drop of a hat.
Finally, I don't mean to offer up sacrifices or throw people under the bus (I hate that phrase) or whatever, but another possibility is to get to the root of the problem. Is everybody spamming pictures and arguments? I'm not naming any names (partially because I can't remember most of them), but so far as I can recall, it's usually just one or two mods with some sense of self-entitlement who give the finger to common courtesy and some guys who can't grasp that most people don't think they're funny. They're found all over the internet, but it's really only the former of the two that gets me, along with high-profile members who pull completely bizarre stunts for some inane emotional release or "just 'cause".
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If it doesn't [bounce back], then maybe it's usually a sign it wasn't worth talking about in the first place.
So that somehow makes it acceptable to go off on something not even marginally related to the original topic for another five pages? I mean, I know I've been guilty with this from time to time, but that doesn't mean it's any less wrong.
Name these "one or two mods" with a sense of entitlement. (Hint: When you've been here for a decade, you too can for the most part do whatever the hell you want, especially if you're a mod.) Name the users who think they're funny but aren't. (Hint: If they're who I'm thinking of, all but one of them actually are.)
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If I get a humorous sensation from a thread because someone posted a funny picture in it, you can bet that I'm not going to make a big deal of it being derailed. I haven't seen many threads that have completely lost what they were started to talk about, but also: topics of conversations change. This is something that people on forums often can't comprehend (especially if it's their thread, I guess). Granted, that doesn't include getting random pictures posted as part of that topic change, but I don't see this happening in every thread. And seeing as how it hasn't happened, I don't believe it will happen either.
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmdope.com%2FGallery%2FActorsB%2F897-1934.gif&hash=edbc4943dc45a08cc25d86f8cc0c479d)
"Now is a time of great decision. Are we to stay or up and quit? There's no avoiding this conclusion. Our town is turning into [dukar]."
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To be fair Trainman, most of our images come from Imageshack or Photobucket.
As a member of multiple message boards, I've witnessed my fair share of board decay as well. This one isn't really all that bad, people just need to show a little bit of restraint. There's a time and place for humor, but it doesn't mean you can drag a thread completely off-topic or fill a page with reaction images.
However, this had been happening for years, its only more apparant now because a number of senior members are either gone or on a self-imposed exile because they can't stand this new style of humor. But think back to the threads that were derailed by people quoting chat transcripts, or throwing around random in-jokes to one another. I guess back then it was appropriate because that kind of humor was the only thing that would fly in our old censor happy days.
That also brings up the issue of moderation. In the past it was quite strict indeed, but as time went on the staff seems have given the members more leniency in what they can and can't do, to the extent that it almost seems like most of them don't even bother putting their foot down anymore. So perhaps this is a test, they want us to prove we can handle this freedom to do whatever we want, within certain limits of course. Now how can someone take advantage of that without abusing it?
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The main issue that I have with this board is that every time a prominent member acts retarded, three or four other members feel they need to jump on the bandwagon so they can get attention too, which ends up drawing out the length of the retardedness beyond human tolerance levels. Not only is it stupid but it displays a startling lack of originality here. The flow of this entire place has been reduced to:
Everything's mostly quiet > Somebody tries to start a ruckus by being a ****** > Bunch of people imitate and/or kiss the ass of that person > Everyone else either remains indifferent or becomes ****ed > Fad dies down > Everything's mostly quiet
And so on, until someone becomes ****ed enough to leave because the place is turning into 4chan.
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...topics of conversations change. This is something that people on forums often can't comprehend (especially if it's their thread, I guess).
Well, yeah sure, that can be understood and that's fine, but I mean, have the new topic change stem from the original topic... not have the new topic be based on Photobucket pictures or any type of arguments springing up mid-thread.
The reason "reaction" images and things can be annoying for me is that, yeah, hey, it happens at lots of forums... what are you gonna do... but TMK has always had a certain set of standards it upended that has kind of faded away.
Let's rewind a couple years or more (especially before the board update)... try and post a stupid picture, start any argument, or try and be unnecessarily witty or whatever, and see what happens: instant +b hammer. Hell, if your grammar was that of our member uvg, and you consistently posted that crap, then you'd probably be banned that way also. (Wasn't uvg banned?) If the thread was supposed to be a more-or-less serious discussion (like this one) or whatever, then that picture PaperLuigi posted just to be an idiot would've probably gotten him banned (maybe by Sapphira, I dunno...). I liked Sapphira's moderation. She put up with a person's BS for about 2 or 3 replies then got rid of them as far as I remember.
The end result is that the message board always looked nice and slick with minimal crap around the edges which was always nice.
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Uh? I want to see examples of posts that prove your point. I don't remember the forums being like that at any time.
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I liked Sapph's take-no-crap attitude. I did not like what constituted crap to her. In addition to the redundant swear-censoring, she would pretty much censor anything that conflicted with her personal/religious/moral beliefs, as well as things that were not actually objectionable or already pre-censored. Unfortunately, during the whole Great Right-to-Cuss Uprising, a whole bunch of people just decided to hate on her for no real reason.
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Personally, I found visits to this place a lot more enjoyable when good grammar, witty posts, and genuine members -- not folly and obscenities -- were the hallmarks of the Fungi Forums.
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Unfortunately, most of the genuine members responsible for witty posts involving good grammar left, whether for real-life reasons or because they're disgusted with what the forums have become.
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up⋅end
/ʌpˈɛnd/
–verb (used with object)
1. to set on end, as a barrel or ship.
2. to affect drastically or radically, as tastes, opinions, reputations, or systems.
3. to defeat in competition, as in boxing or business.
I can't help but see this thread as an old retread of the "Trainman was a halfop once" whine.
I don't remember the forums ever being as you describe, Trainman. The kind of police state you idealize is a hideous re-imagining of the way things used to be. Really, it was just a different group of people on a small, little-used forum.
If uvg was banned, it must have taken a really long time, because I don't remember what even happened to him.
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He got a name change and left at some point after that. He was last online in June of this year.
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I did remember uvg coming back and chastising himself for using such poor grammar (under a different username, of course).
Chupperson, the half-op thing is in the past. Yes, I do bring it up every once in a while, but I'm not getting the position back and I don't want the position back.
Also, a hideous re-imagining? The worst thing you'd see back then was a text-based flame war (think old marioguy). No pictures, etc. etc. etc. And really, if you tried anything just completely stupid, sure, you'd get banned for sure.... "completely stupid" including consistently pointless posts, crap-talking, etc. No one sat around and just watched it materialize; it'd typically be dealt with within a few posts or a few days of the member joining.
I'm not saying the forum needs to be put on lockdown and the ability of adding attachments, etc. be stripped, but maybe it needs to be scrutinized a little more for certain posts. If the picture has nothing to do with the topic or it's a "reaction" image or whatever the hell, maybe it should simply be edited out by a moderator so we don't have to scroll down through miles of pictures to find one legitimate post and that would also discourage any other posters from following suit and posting pictures back to back.
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I can't help but feel somewhat at fault for this decay, especially considering that
topics from being horribly derailed, spammed to death with unnecessary Google image search pictures, and/or turning into a let's-try-and-one-up-each-other-or-talk-crap-for-a-couple-pages fest
...all apply to my posts. Of course, blaming me for posting memes is like blaming the squirrel for having a bushy tail. But regardless, I am indeed guilty of perpetuating the bull[dukar] tangents of prominent members.
Back to reform, just be mindful that your perception of how the forum has changed may differ vastly from how it has actually changed. This sounds as though many of you are in the "those were the days..." mindset: Much like old people do, you complain about how much better life was fifty years ago. Meanwhile, the old people fifty years ago longed for the carefree days of the 1900s, and so on. People have a tendency to hold in high regard the things they can't have, with the past being no exception.
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No, we don't need gratuitous censorship to deal with these problems. That's the last thing anyone wants after those events back in 2003 that drove off a number of members.
Like I said, people should just show some restraint. There doesn't need to be a chain of reaction images ine very thread.
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However, I'm not crying over it or complaining about the old days being gone. (I'm complaining about stupid crap happening now). I'm just explaining my opinion and wanting feedback on it.
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I liked Sapphira's moderation. She put up with a person's BS for about 2 or 3 replies then got rid of them as far as I remember.
Why are you in favor of Sapphira's moderation? She bans people if they cuss or speak out against Christianity. She'd probably ban Insane Steve if she had the chance. She did it to fuzzy.
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Trainman, could you provide us with a solitary example of a forum which isn't heading in the same direction as ours? A board composed of barely thirty active members can't hope to swim against the flow that the surrounding online collective is stirring up.
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I think the overall concept of "message board" is dying in favor of blogs and social networking, much like how technologies such as e-mail and AIM have lost popularity and how MySpace has lost ground to Facebook and Twitter. Blog comments, Facebook groups, and tweets have become the new means of communication for many people, especially because Facebook groups can often be better advertised than, say, a message board hidden on a website of a sports team under some submenu or a forum available through the click of a button on a side menu on an unofficial site for a video game franchise.
Five years ago message boards were insanely popular, having replaced their predecessors (bulletin boards) and offering a better communications alternative to the rarely-read e-mail or the "answer me now" nature of AIM. I am also on the official Pittsburgh Pirates message board and have been for six years. However, I'm rarely there anymore because most of the discussions are either a) people making fun of each other and not about baseball or b) something that begins as a baseball-related conversation that quickly goes south. Most of the posters who had so much insight when I was there more often have disappeared and all of the discussions seem to say something like "I hate the ownership of the Pirates" instead of saying "well, the owners may have decided to dump the contract of Player A, but Player B, who we got in return, may be an improvement here or a step back here for these reasons". Also, the board has little "cliques" anymore and has no real moderation. It's a shame, since it was once a great place to talk about baseball. Now, if I want to talk about Pirates baseball, I typically use the Facebook groups or Pirates application or I reply to comments left by the various bloggers who write about the team. Sometimes I've found the best way to talk about the team is to (gasp) talk to my fellow fans in person!!!
However, this board is different. Baseball fans are a dime a dozen. I'm sure many of you reading this have a baseball team you follow and discuss with other fans, either in person or online. Super Mario video games are a different story than baseball. Yes, nearly everyone has played a Mario game at some point, but not everyone wants to discuss strategies about them, speculate on the origins of Wario, contemplate the relationship between Luigi and Peach, review the two ways to get the sixth star in Tall Tall Mountain in SM64, etc. This is one of those "limited interest groups" that can really only exist online because the odds of running into someone interested in Mario as much as we are in your city are a lot slimmer than finding a fellow baseball fan. (Even if you root for an out-of-town team, it's easier to find someone who knows what you're talking about unless that team is a big rival).
The lack of moderation is what seemingly killed the Pirates message board. Even now I don't think they have a moderator and the longtime members who remain from before the board went sour have joined in the madness of cliquery and whatnot. (If "cliquery" wasn't a word when I typed it, it is now--ask a linguistics professor and they'll tell you what I did was legal). Also, the longtime members who were not moderators served an important role in regulating the board. They provided positive role models for the newer members to follow and didn't go around posting spam links, etc.
However, some moderation was too harsh on that board. There was a time when it was difficult to talk about shortstops, believe it or not, due to an intolerable moderation technique. Here's what was once an illegal sentence:
The Pirates had a SS named Dick Groat in 1960, who compared favorably to Jack Wilson and Jay Bell.
If we wanted to talk about Groat and use his first name, we had to substitute an "!" for the "i" because the software thought we were saying a dirty word. Also, we would have to type out the word "shortstop" since they thought that "a" went with it despite the space in there. This is an example of why too much moderation is a bad thing. (At one point some of us just had to say "that shortstop we had in 1960" or something of the like). In the end, running a board is just as bad as running a country!!!
I may be a newer member here, but after seeing a great board fall I don't want to see this happen in another community. I came here to talk Mario (my favorite video game franchise of all time) and want to make sure that will happen. I'll be happy to chip in any way I can to make this board a better place.
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then that picture PaperLuigi posted just to be an idiot would've probably gotten him banned
Don't get your panties in a tightwad dude. I was just having a little fun.
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Girls just wanna have fun, after all.
Pgh: That's exactly what we'd like to hear. You're really onto something with the concept of blogs and Tweets and whatnot overtaking forums: Social-networking communication is even more "conversational" than how we communicate here, and thus, seemingly, anyone who communicates on Facebook gradually becomes less capable of making well-written posts elsewhere. As another example, I always have a tougher time pulling more-complex terms out from the depths of my mind after having been on #TMK, as its spontaniety restricts conversation to quick jolts of text.
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Evidently you haven't seen me rambling on incessantly in there. There's a reason my custom title is "Paid by the word," you know.
PghPens is continuing to show that he's possibly the best new member these forums have gotten in quite some time, but I have to disagree with some of the stuff he's saying. Yes, many message boards are fading into oblivion as Web 2.0 applications supplant them. But old tech dies hard - look at IRC, which has been around for like two decades now. Message boards as a whole aren't in any danger. They die because of the reasons you gave for that Pirates forum falling apart (lack of moderation and "cliquery," which this place definitely suffers from) and because of lack of interest, not because of new tech.
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Name these "one or two mods" with a sense of entitlement. (Hint: When you've been here for a decade, you too can for the most part do whatever the hell you want, especially if you're a mod.) Name the users who think they're funny but aren't. (Hint: If they're who I'm thinking of, all but one of them actually are.)
I would, but you suffixed each of your challenges with a reason why every possible answer would be wrong.
Also, just for the purposes of comparison, etc., could someone provide a link or two to the kind of thread that incited this topic? I certainly don't doubt their existence, but I think it would help the argument in general.
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http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=12539.0
Topics so far:
- Me thinking Waluigi is useless.
- A Mario game starring Mario's father.
- Me thinking they should ban the act of keeping adults faces hidden in cartoons.
- People blaming Charles Shultz, Bill Shultz and Ed Shultz (whoever that is).
- Me saying that adults in Peanuts cartoons were eventually given faces and voices.
- Me liking Mario is Missing (a bad game) but hating WarioWare (a good game).
- A picture from Super Paper Mario
- I thought Smooth Moves used the Wii Balance Board.
- Two words a post.
- listing the different subjects that have been discussed here
- Comparing Pokemon to Final Fantasy IV for no reason
- Chup insulting Mother
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Haha, I just realized he said that I insulted Mother. And obviously I didn't.
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See, that's a case where (as I believe I stated on the thread itself) the original topic was collectively regarded as so frivilous that rapid, multifarious straying from the topic was probably inevitable. I mean, if Tv_Themes had phrased the title differently...
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This is precisely what happens on the Pittsburgh Pirates board. Someone will start a discussion about, say, Andy LaRoche going 5-5 in Monday's win. After a few on-topic posts that may relate to it (the types of pitches he saw, adjustments that may have been made to his swing, where he's batting in the order, etc) there will be some random post that will cause the thread to go off on a tangent. Pretty soon Andy LaRoche is the last person anyone is talking about and the subjects being discussed have nothing to do with him, third basemen, the Pirates, or even baseball.
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There are many forums which haven't fallen into disarray. Just because you haven't been to them doesn't mean they dont exist. For example, check out swayforum.com to see a small community type of message board which hasn't degenerated into a deviant [dukar]storm of memes and flaming.
While I can somewhat agree with Trainman here, I also have to take into account the only times I thought this forum was great was when I was about 15 years old, and back when I was 15 years old I was a loser and an imbecile. So either the forum truly has degraded, or it's always been like this and I just hadn't noticed until the last couple of years when I was old enough to realize it was bad.
Also, I think it'd be funny if this message board was closed.
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While I can somewhat agree with Trainman here, I also have to take into account the only times I thought this forum was great was when I was about 15 years old, and back when I was 15 years old I was a loser and an imbecile. So either the forum truly has degraded, or it's always been like this and I just hadn't noticed until the last couple of years when I was old enough to realize it was bad.
So which did you realize first? :D
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For example, check out swayforum.com to see a small community type of message board which hasn't degenerated into a deviant [dukar]storm of memes and flaming.
Not for loooong.
Thanks for the address, though.
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Go ahead, troll it. I grew to hate that place in a matter of weeks since it's made up of people in their 40s who still use the internet. The collective community there somehow manages to be lamer than the one here.
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I'm trying to figure out why you're still here.
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"I hate this board but I'm gonna stick around regardless."
Sound logic, mate.
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Yeah it's pretty fun to quote things that were never stated. Watch I'll show you how to quote for real.
I'm trying to figure out why you're still here.
Hey, I gotta troll somewhere.
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F209.85.12.232%2F13961%2F46%2Femo%2Fgregx.png&hash=67f141e581bc9087464281fd99b8fb12)
Don't you just love it when a community grows to despise each other? :3
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We'll just pretend to have understood that reference.
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(lack of moderation and "cliquery," which this place definitely suffers from)
I'm starting to really notice the latter around these parts lately, and its getting utterly ridiculous imo.
I honestly thought it died out two years ago, but it still seems to be around today.
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I find the clique mentality to be much more prevalent on #TMK, although the shrinking overlap between users there and here makes them hard to compare.
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So basically, we're dealing with the
Smithy TMK Gang.
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Nice. Let's form our own clique then. We'll call it Team Mega-Awesome Extreme.
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That's a stupid name for stupid people.
Let's take this to the e-streets.
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That's a stupid name for stupid people.
Let's take this to the e-streets.
Speak up. I can't hear you with Lizard Dude's eBalls in your mouth.
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So that's where my eBalls went.
I've been looking for those little guys everywhere!
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little guys
Don't be so modest.
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I'll bring the eGuns.
Excerpt from old Sapphira thread:
---This is the OFFICIAL start now, as in the staff/mods will back me up now. All warnings/strikes I've already given still count. I'll post the statistics here to keep track (for the mods/admins and myself, mostly.) Now that this is in its own thread, there's no "excuse" for "misbehavior."
Stats (0 = warning, 1+ = strikes)
------------------------------
Todd Begin: B&
Childofthepotatoe: 1
Alucard: 2
uvg: 0
Mr. Wiggles: 0
Trainman: 0
Super Mario: 0
luigifan: 0
Lonic the Elfinhog: B&
WarioLandMan: 0
Dark King: Banned for past offenses
Blackmage: 1
Edited by - Sapphira on 7/9/2004 10:31:49 PM
[darn], look at that perfect record. And wow.... Blackmage.... of all people.... got a strike 5 years ago?
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That is odd. How'd Blackmage get a full strike? Did he swear while denouncing Christianity and advocating a Democratic candidate all in one post?
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This (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?action=profile;u=54560) Blackmage, not Black Mage the moderator.
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Blackmage likens Bill O'reilly to God. That in itself deserves a strike.
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Speak up. I can't hear you with Lizard Dude's eBalls in your mouth.
Those aren't balls stuffed in my mouth.
You of all people should know that.
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They're overpriced anime-themed snacks? Hentai magazines?
Testicles?
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Those aren't balls stuffed in my mouth.
You of all people should know that.
Ah yes, the 'you should know' comeback. A telltale sign that one has been badly zinged.
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Mr. Wiggles
ARE YOU A CHIPMUNK?
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No, I'm a squirrel.
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg62.imageshack.us%2Fimg62%2F6522%2Fpachirisu9zs.png&hash=52b1b4f7414511013a5f537d71de0226)
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They're overpriced anime-themed snacks? Hentai magazines?
Testicles?
I lost.
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Blackmage likens Bill O'reilly to God. That in itself deserves a strike.
Sapphira would probably be his superbest friend forever if he said that, not strike him.
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Actually, you have a point.