Fungi Forums
TMK Stuff => Site Discussion => Topic started by: Lizard Dude on September 08, 2008, 09:53:30 PM
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This forum is way too moderated. We can't even talk about our own presidential election. When I grew up here, there were threads upon threads of people constantly arguing about every controversial issue under the sun. What changed?
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Seconding this. Instead of banning certain discussions because of the idea that people taking part in them might act immature, why not punish those people instead? We the normal forum-goers shouldn't have to be held in like this.
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Punishing people! I'm all for it.
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I won't be surprised if this topic gets locked.
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I agree with Lizard Dude. I would like to be able to talk freely about certain topics...but then again, this is a monarchy, not a democracy. We have to obey the boss if he doesn't like political discussion.
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Uh, there was nothing wrong at all with the Election '08 thread. If people want to make idiotic immature posts the posts can be deleted without notice.
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I agree with Lizard Dude. I would like to be able to talk freely about certain topics...but then again, this is a monarchy, not a democracy. We have to obey the boss if he doesn't like political discussion.
Monarchies still depend on their people. Remember that a group of English noblemen got their king to sign the Magna Carta in 1215, thus guaranteeing them many basic rights.
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This forum is way too moderated. We can't even talk about our own presidential election. When I grew up here, there were threads upon threads of people constantly arguing about every controversial issue under the sun. What changed?
Seconding this. Instead of banning certain discussions because of the idea that people taking part in them might act immature, why not punish those people instead? We the normal forum-goers shouldn't have to be held in like this.
Um... Thirding(?) this.
Why exactly did the Votes topic get locked, anyway?
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What--? Lizard Dude's a staff member. He should be able to just wave his magic staff and *poof*, allow all discussions.
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What--? Lizard Dude's a staff member. He should be able to just wave his magic staff and *poof*, allow all discussions.
No. He's no longer a staff member.
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What--? Lizard Dude's no longer a staff member? He should have just waved his magic staff and said *poof*, you can't fire me, Deezer.
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I'm in for this as well because my post in the "MKelection" was deleted.
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Lizard Dude, who are you going to nominate as your VP?
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I heard through the grapevine that he's probably going to pick TEM.
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Unless he's like John McCain, then he'll wait a few months and pick a really random member out of the blue.
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I agree with LD. Banning like a banmongering banmeister won't solve anything. The whole "political discussions turn into flame wars" issue is 100% grade-A pasturized moot, because that hasn't even happened; people disagreeing with each other does not a flame war make.
So, I'm going to leave TMK until either the poltical ban gets lifted or I get paid off. This is my last post until then.
Love, Glorb
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I'm with Glorb.
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NO! Where will I get my Genuine Glorbian SarcasmTM?
...or did I just experience some? I hope so.
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Lizard Dude, who are you going to nominate as your VP?
Please nominate me. I totally agree with you.
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Pretty much everyone else does, which means that we're all his VP candidates according to that logic.
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I also think the mods should loosen their grip. This should be a poll.
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Sapphira is the only mod who seems to edit the language around here, but she isn't around much anymore, so the boards have loosened up in that respect. I'd like to be able to discuss politics without constraint too.
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I'm in for this as well because my post in the "MKelection" was deleted.
Because your post and its ilk is the REASON politics threads get locked around here?
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Posts should never be deleted.
Edit out a swear word or nudie pic if you must, but total deletion of a post is unncessary and very harmful to the posting ecosystem.
With the recent surge of forum meddling, I'm about ready to join Glorb and EM. I played with the idea of quitting when making this thread, but decided I didn't have enough sleep in me to make decisions. I don't even like or participate much in the controversial type of discussions being squelched, I just abhor how it's being handled. Especially the part where IS does all the talking, even though "higher-ups" supposedly made the decision.
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I'm with LD in allowing all discussions. The interesting discussions here have become very rare as of late.
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Or make section of the forum specificaly for debating
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Yes, because further segregation really solves the problem of blending one type of discussion with all the others.
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I've been waiting for somebody to bring this little issue up, how very fitting the LD be the voice of it all.
Honestly, when the political discussion was banned simply because some higher ups felt we couldn't handle such "meaningless garbage", that basically told me that either someone has personal problems with how we debate around here, or there's stigma against letting the discussions evolve as the members begin growing up. Yes, we will continue to get new members as long as the site remains, but that doesn't mean we should be silenced for wanting to discuss more mature issues.
So yeah, I've been gone because of this and will stay gone until we get some sort of decision that isn't "What we says goes don't like it, too bad. Locked."
Too bad that's what we're probably gonna get.
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I agree with Mr Wiggles, Lizard_Dude, and Glorb.
I think the forums should evolve with the members, and if something still happens that the forum Gods (and Goddess) still think needs to be locked/deleted, then they can wave their magic wands and make it disappear.
If something happens in a thread involving political discussions (like the Abortion thread), they should delete the offending posts, ban the offending posters, ect.. instead of shutting down the entire thread.
I am not going to go so far as to stay away from the forums (my activity has already been sparse as of late) but the good discussions have been rare these days.
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I totally agree. To be honest, I've never been involved in any of these "taboo" discussions, but a thread about the election being locked? Come on.
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I remember the flag burning thread where I got totally heated because I was one of the only people against it. I remember the abortion thread too...
Why is all the political discussion banned now?
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As far as I can tell there was no real explanation. EM dropped a few cryptic hints, but as far as I can tell Deezer didn't want it for whatever reason. What's especially strange is that Chup, Steve, and Mß seemed to condone the poll by not locking it.
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Well, I'm going to say what I have to say, whether it was said before or not. I think...
..."Political" (whatever that really means) discussion should be allowed. If somebody goes a little overboard, just deal with them. How does shutting the thread down solve anything? The longer we sit on these issues the harder it's going to be for us to not talk about them.
..That, at least with some topics, what's the point of arguing in the first place? It's like those religious debates I got into a while back; eventually, I thought, "why talk about this stuff, anyway? It's not like I'm going to say something to someone--here, on an internet Mario forum--and they'll respond with 'Oh... I guess you're right. I'm changing my beliefs on that one.'"
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I had no say in locking the thread, and left to my devices I'd be perfectly happy leaving it open and deleting posts that don't contribute at all if that's what has to be done to keep it open. In a perfect world I'd just leave it be and those messages would be ignored/ridiculed but the higher-up staff really doesn't allow that kind of "let it be" moderating.
Yea, the lack of really good GC discussion since politiks ban is scary.
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I agree with keeping the discussions. For the record, I actually didn't really help the thread, but I enjoyed reading the arguments. IS, I remember seeing this:
Ya, no more of this, ok? It turns into a massive "YOUR BELIEFS ARE WROOOOONG LOLZ" argument and no one ever convinces anyone of anything. So the higher-ups decided that these topics are bad and they shouldn't be posted anymore.
This actually was barely thrown at IS. I just noticed THIS in the bottom left corner:
Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 09:20:21 am by Deezer
Hmmmmm... ? Although I do know that the Ya, to anything was from IS, but how Deezer worded the last part, wasn't very well worded. But, thats that.
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There hasn't been much good discussion on anything lately. Not even Mario, since apparently Mariology is off-limits, and liking anything but a Mario platformer is strictly prohibited.
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I think the desire to stop "political" discussion is to stop the spread of rampant ignorance as much as for any other reason.
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Because stopping discussion stops ignorance. *nod*
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I said stop it spreading. Further.
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What's ironic is that now, instead of discussing US politics, we're discussing TMK politics.
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Wow. Then this could get meta-prohibited if we're not careful...
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I have a dream! That my threads won't be discriminated against by the color of their font!
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You're in the Green Party. You don't get to win elections.
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Touché.
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I propose a vote
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Yeah, so do I. I want Glorb to come back.
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I propose a vote
I have no problem with a vote or intelligent political discussions, but remember: "Copyright (http://themushroomkingdom.net/about.shtml#copyright) © 1997-2008 TMK Staff (http://themushroomkingdom.net/contact.shtml). All Rights Reserved."
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That was unexpected.
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We shall make a public poll of this topic and we will see the winner not guaranteeing any change (In Mayor Quimby's voice).
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That sounds an awful lot like RuneScape polls...
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This has gone too far with neither Deezer nor MEGAߥTE responding to the complaints of the entire community. Following Glorb and EM, I'm also leaving until this place gets rid of the fascist political rule and pointless post deleting. If you care about the Fungi Forums, I encourage you to leave them too.
-Lizard Dude
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But that doesn't make sense. If we care, we should stay, and hope that our compliants don't continue to fall on deaf ears. Now that there is a thread about it, they will likely pay some attention to the issue.
Personally, I've never had a problem with the way MB and Deezer have taken care of things. Sure, it took them a bit longer to take care of a few things, but it's likely that they are working on it, and it will be done when they feel it is to their liking.
They're a bit like Nintendo in that respect. That's a compliment, fyi.
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I have no problem with a vote or intelligent political discussions, but remember: "Copyright (http://themushroomkingdom.net/about.shtml#copyright) © 1997-2008 TMK Staff (http://themushroomkingdom.net/contact.shtml). All Rights Reserved."
The TMK staff have listened to us before (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=10527.0).
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This has gone too far with neither Deezer nor MEGAߥTE responding to the complaints of the entire community. Following Glorb and EM, I'm also leaving until this place gets rid of the fascist political rule and pointless post deleting. If you care about the Fungi Forums, I encourage you to leave them too.
-Lizard Dude
I'm with you buddy. I'm leaving until the ban gets lifted.
-PaperLuigi
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No! Wait don't leave! It's just a thread it's not that important, PL please stay.
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Just a thread? No, it's much more than that. It's about being able to speak freely about your opinions without the fear of being censored by the mods. Sorry MJ, but I'm leaving.
(Yes, I am aware that I came back, but I felt that this needed to be addressed)
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Who was the mod that closed that thread anyways?
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Listen, I'm all for the cause and the activism and all, but "leaving until I get what I want" kind of defeats the purpose...
1. If everybody who wanted to talk politics that badly did that, there' be no one left who wanted to, so the rule wouldn't be bothering anyone.
2. The rule is to not talk politics, with a consequence likely being a ban. If you're never coming back, that's not that different from being banned. So you're not helping the cause that much.
3. We've been trying to get rid of Lizard Dude and Glorb for YEARS! Let's celebrate!
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3. We've been trying to get rid of Lizard Dude and Glorb for YEARS! Let's celebrate!
Wow! Seriously? Why have you guys been wanting to get rid of Glorb and LD??
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The sad truth is that you actually can't buy a sarcasm detector.
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So you were being sarcastic huh? -.-
Theres so much sarcasm around here that its more lying than it is sarcasm.
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Listen, I'm all for the cause and the activism and all, but "leaving until I get what I want" kind of defeats the purpose...
I don't think it's "leaving until I get what I want" so much as it is "leaving because this community has changed for the worse." I prefer to stay and fight, but whatever.
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This has gone too far with neither Deezer nor MEGAߥTE responding to the complaints of the entire community. Following Glorb and EM, I'm also leaving until this place gets rid of the fascist political rule and pointless post deleting. If you care about the Fungi Forums, I encourage you to leave them too.
-Lizard Dude
If everyone left, who will fight? This whole dilemma is more extreme than I thought...And for such a righteous cause, it's pretty messed up that neither MB or Deezer reply yet.
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Glorb and LD were my mortal enemies. What am I to say about this?
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1. If everybody who wanted to talk politics that badly did that, there' be no one left who wanted to, so the rule wouldn't be bothering anyone.
2. The rule is to not talk politics, with a consequence likely being a ban. If you're never coming back, that's not that different from being banned. So you're not helping the cause that much.
QFT. As they say, "I have chosen to stay and fight".
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Hello, everyone.
The next logical step seems to be nominating a member who supports freedom of speech on the Fungi Forums to submit a PM to key staff members (i.e. Deezer and Mß), seeing as this topic has yet to generate any recognition. For all we know, neither Deezer nor Mß have read this topic, possible reasons for which being too numerous to bother speculating.
Two points:
- The PM should be sent once, by one member only. We do not want to bother staff members; we only wish for the problem to be recognized (along with the reasonable expectation that possible solutions then be given attention).
- The PM should not be a mere link to this topic but a short and concise summary of the problem. It might be worth mentioning Glorb, Eclipsed Moon, and Lizard Dude having left in protest--not as leverage against the staff, saying, "Look, we already lost three members, and we don't want to lose more," but as a simple sign of the problem's significance. For a related Confucian anecdote, click here (http://www.anecdotage.com/index.php?aid=6976).
We should agree here upon a member to send this PM. Logically, having started this topic, this member would be Lizard Dude. In his absence, however, someone else needs to step up to the task. The PM should be reviewed and critiqued here before formal submission.
I expect the process to take a few days, during which this topic might be closed, or the staff might even revoke this heinous ban. Anything can happen, but should the unthinkable come about, and this topic be locked with bans imposed upon those who would create more freedom of speech topics, I implore all concerned parties to send a PM to me. I will regroup and organize our efforts from there.
Lastly, I should mention that--in direct contrast to the three members who have already left--I will be staying on the Fungi Forums until this problem is solved (and encourage all others to do so, too). Also, could anyone who frequents the chatroom mention whether Glorb, Eclipsed Moon, or Lizard Dude have been online? Even better, could you mention this post and ask them to consider returning?
Thank you.
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I'm staying too. I personally don't care anything about not being able to post my political belifs on TMK but I am troubled by few of our forum members leaving because of it (esspecially PL). I will write that PM and have you and some others review it to make sure it's good if no one else who is better fit for such a job decide to take it.
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Thanks, MJ. I knew your custom rank was right when it said you were serious.
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I won't be leaving either. This is the first message board I've found in five years where people pay attention to spelling and grammar rules! But more than that, I want to see this problem resolved, not go away and pretend it doesn't exist.
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Staying. DeadAwake, knowing from doing this before, when it comes to banhammering, talking about it to MB or Deezer will almost always have you ignored. Although, if MaxVance is fighting against this (Hes a freaking staff infection.), then I think its time for change.
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I am and always have been a freedom of speech advocate enough to the point where I would get annoyed when people in real life get arrested for saying something offensive. But there is the understanding of other people's feelings that lead to the problems in the first place that everyone forgets. I'm leaving too unless the forum policy changes to allow free speech.
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I want to see this problem resolved, not go away and pretend it doesn't exist.
We're not pretending it doesn't exist. The idea is that if a lot of people leave, Deezer and co would then be forced to change the rules or else be left with a completely dead forum. Think of it like a strike.
And yes, I'm leaving too.
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These are bad times for the Fungi Forums.
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EDIT: Created this post by accident lol.
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Staying. DeadAwake, knowing from doing this before, when it comes to banhammering, talking about it to MB or Deezer will almost always have you ignored. Although, if MaxVance is fighting against this (Hes a freaking staff infection.), then I think its time for change.
Actually, them not ignoring me is how I got my Custom Title.
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These are bad times for the Fungi Forums.
Boy, I might need that old CT of mine back now...
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Hi again, everyone.
Some new information has surfaced, leading me to wonder if this problem isn't entirely as big as originally perceived. It seems members who normally maintain contact with Deezer and MEGAߥTE (and other staff) have not seen them since sometime before the creation of this topic. In light of this, it seems more likely that staff members have simply yet to be made aware of the problem.
As previously mentioned, until we have confirmed key staff members' awareness of the situation, please do not leave the Fungi Forums. Though it is your freedom to do so, and I will acknowledge and keep track of your absence--please understand that it really does no good at this point. If, however, we receive word directly from staff that goes against free speech, let us reconsider.
The first step towards awareness is the PM. MushroomJunkie, have you written it yet? The task is still up for grabs; if nobody has posted a workable PM within 24 hours, I'll compose one myself and ask for input here. We can begin rounding up a list of signatures in the meantime. So... if you stand for free speech, and you trust others who also stand for free speech to accurately communicate your beliefs in the PM we will compose, please say something to that effect now. We will add your name. You may, of course, also wait until seeing and agreeing upon the beliefs laid out in the PM once it is finalized.
Glorb, Eclipsed Moon, and Lizard Dude should have their names added as well--not in support of the PM but in recognition of their absence. If communication with any of these members through alternative outlets can be achieved, we may also add their names to the "in support of" section.
Next, I would like to thank everyone who has contacted me through private messaging or otherwise. Your information has greatly contributed to the organization of this cause.
And lastly, it would make sense at this point to make a request for the moderator who locked the TMK Votes (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?topic=12060.0) thread in General Chat to make his or herself known. Please either reply to this thread or send a PM my way. In the case of the latter, I will keep our communications under my hat.
Thank you again.
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I haven't yet but I could get started. I wasn't sure if I was to be picked or if anybody could write one if they wanted to. If you could just tell me some points that you would like me to include and how long you need it that would be good.
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Toss my sig onto the pile!
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Yeah, I'm sorry about that... It would've helped to have been more concrete.
The message we send should explain the problem in a straightforward, non-hostile manner--that free speech is being limited on the forums and members are concerned. (Links could be provided.) It should not ask the staff whether they are aware of the problem but rather ask for a reply, ideally in this topic, that shows they have acknowledged our message. Other than that, it'd probably best to sum up the opinions expressed here by various members. Include a quote or two, or mention that members are leaving in protest if you like--just as long as it's written fairly and expresses the collective views of this topic.
As said, a hostile tone should be avoided, so if you're going to mention members leaving, please don't make it sound like a threat. Anyway, thank you for offering to write this. I'd do it myself, but the result would probably be too biased. Besides, the more people work together, the better. So, thank you.
EDIT: ShadowBrain's in.
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You should make a Powerpoint.
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You should make a Powerpoint.
Great idea.
Put my signature on thar.
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What would you include in the power point?
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C'mon, MJ. Now's not the time to turn off your sarcasm meter!
And the Powerpoint comes after the internet petition (hosted at Geocites).
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Hi again, everyone.
Some new information has surfaced, leading me to wonder if this problem isn't entirely as big as originally perceived. It seems members who normally maintain contact with Deezer and MEGAߥTE (and other staff) have not seen them since sometime before the creation of this topic. In light of this, it seems more likely that staff members have simply yet to be made aware of the problem.
Hm, perhaps I shouldn't have left then. After leaving for a couple of days I gave it some thought and decided that Deezer and MB wouldn't care if I had left anyway, so here I am. After reading DeadAwake's posts, it's probably best that I stay and assess the situation anyway.
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Glad your back PL.
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Hey, thanks MJ.
Hm...it looks like DeadAwake didn't acknowledge that I had left. :/
Oh well, it's alright. I was only taking after Lizard Dude because I hold him in high regard. Yeah, I'm a dork. So what of it?
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Hm...it looks like DeadAwake didn't acknowledge that I had left. :/
You were always here, in my heart.
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That's good to know. :P
It's probably best that I came back because you didn't acknowledge my absence, thus I would not get mentioned in the PM. It's okay, because I sort of wanted to come back.
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Well I was the one who actually wrote the PM and I included your name. Though it should probably be taken out now since your back.
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I'm not visiting as often as I used to.
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Well I was the one who actually wrote the PM and I included your name. Though it should probably be taken out now since your back.
Really? A big reason why I came back was because there'd be no point in leaving if I wasn't going to be mentioned (because it'd be like I'd never left at all). Yeah, you should take my name out.
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Welcome back, PL!
Is my signature on this little petition? If not, stick it on!
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Me too.
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Yeah, put my signature down too.
(Thanks for the welcome, Turtlekid)
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So who is putting all these names in, me or DeadAwake, cause DeadAwake has a copy of the petition. I'm just not sure who's actually gonna send it.
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I'll send it, if someone is willing to compose it first. I've never been great at marshalling my thoughts into a coherent message.
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I already have written it.
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Make sure you put my name on it.
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.....
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Sorry that was a pointless post
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...What just happened there?
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Throw mah signature on there, my good man.
I don't really show up much, but thats cause I have things to do
[Edit] Due to epic failure, I have deleted this part of the post.
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Win (kinda). Sorry about the double post, but I quickly threw together a starter PM and sent it to Deezer. Replacing the signature was a link to the page. Lets hope something happens.
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More specifically, let's hope something good happens.
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Many other forums are considering this.
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No reply, and I might not be here for the reply. With that, Deezer, if you do, can you post your reply here?
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Just to let you guys know, the only reason i bother coming here anymore is to see this whole thing resolved, the right way.
It's downright insulting how the voices of the many veteran members are being completely ignored and no progress being made.
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Hm...maybe one of us should post a politically themed topic in general chat. That might get their attention.
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Wait a minute luigalaxy is leaving how's he gonna get the PM?
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We've decided to open a new sub-board (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?board=4497.0) for political discussion. All future political/religious topics should be posted there (http://themushroomkingdom.net/board/index.php?board=4497.0).
I hope those of you who posted here are this passionate about going out and voting this November.
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Heh, interesting. The one day I decide to lurk on TMK for a second to see how stuff's been going down, I see that things have turned out quite nicely.
I'm glad this was settled in the manner it was. As such, I'm returning (after all, I'd be doing a poor job of not being here had a posted this).
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yyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
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Yeah okay.
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I suppose this works out well. Providing a board specifically for this sort of discussion helps make individual ideas more topic-worthy, as opposed to just posting it in ANGST or something. Here's hoping that it'll remain civil and happy, without a real need for moderation.
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It's not visible from the main forum page. Should it be right under general chat?
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It's not visible from the main forum page. Should it be right under general chat?
It is a child board in general chat.
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Just for the record... love the name.
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I'm good with it.
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I'm glad this was settled swiftly and.. accuratley? (well, swiftly anyway).
Why hasn't Lizard_Dude come back yet?
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No underscore, and he has come back. You just didn't notice it.
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Oh sweet! I am here, I have a Wii. Thanks, Deezer.
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Deezer gave you a Wii!?
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I'd swear he had an underscore at one time or another..
I just thought he would post in this topic, saying he's back, kind of like everyone else did/has.
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HAPPY END
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Until someone makes a sequel of course.
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ALLOW ALL DISCUSSIONS 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO
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Allow All Discussions 2: Allowance Day
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Allow All Discussions 3D: Game Over
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Live Free or Allow All Discussions
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Day of Allowing All Discussions.
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Allow All Discussions Miami
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Oh, great, what did I start... (Glorb gets the best line, as always)
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Honey, I Allowed All Discussions
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No, wait, that was better.
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The Incredibly Strange Moderators Who Stopped Allowing All Discussion And Became Mixed-Up Zombies.
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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmoonside.kontek.net%2Ftmk%2Fsequels.png&hash=633d52b230ebdee0cd52fb5fa79894cd)
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Two words: Microsoft Excel.
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One character: $
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I think it's cute.
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Allow All Discussions Miami
Sorry, but that's the funniest so far.
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Allow All Discussions Miami
"The victim was found with cerebral hemmoraging and a lack of discussion allowance."
"Then I guess we should..."
*puts on sunglasses*
"Allow All Discussions."