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Author Topic: Your F Score?  (Read 47933 times)

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2011, 11:06:24 PM »
(and not in the good, self-improving way, but in the "I'm going to use religion to judge everyone different from me" way)
Asserting that someone is in the wrong is not judging them.

My favourite of his quotes is the time he told us he'd have no qualms with brutally murdering us all if he ever stopped believing in God.
My favorite of your quotes is the time you told me why I should have any qualms about it.

OH WAIT
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2011, 11:14:21 PM »
By regulating and criminalizing an act that is an affront to God, we're doing what he told us to do

That's a fallacious appeal to authority. How about giving an actual reason for the criminalization of homosexuality?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 11:16:12 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2011, 11:20:25 PM »
By regulating and criminalizing an act that is an affront to God, we're doing what he told us to do.  I'm pretty sure he didn't tell us to do nothing about it.  And have you considered that our penalizing their actions is his method of "sorting them out"?  Just because he's not smiting them with a lightning bolt where they stand doesn't mean he's not passing judgment.

No, you're considering yourself better than God -- that is, more equipped to handle a subset of humanity. He didn't say anything about it -- so He's essentially "neutral" on how we should approach this, which in my interpretation means He'll sort them out. And before you pull out Leviticus 18:22 -- Read a bit further and see what other "crimes" are equally sinful. Go on , if you're not naked you're probably committing a sin on the order of sodomy right now.

Also I stopped believing in God before I first joined TMK, and I've never had the urge to murder someone. I live by the One Commandment, and I'm pretty sure all of the Ten Commandments can be reduced to this: The One Commandment is:

"Don't be an *******."

That would, believe it or not, include not killing people.

Also, just curious, what other things that are legal right now would be illegal in Turtlekid world?
~I.S.~

« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2011, 11:21:07 PM »
That's a fallacious appeal to authority. How about giving an actual reason for the criminalization of homosexuality?
Says the guy who just sucked John Stuart Mill's dick.

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2011, 11:22:32 PM »
Says the guy who just sucked John Stuart Mill's dick.

Whoa, don't tell Turtlekid this. Our prisons are crowded enough.
~I.S.~

« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2011, 11:24:50 PM »
Says the guy who just sucked John Stuart Mill's dick.

No, I'm agreeing with Mill, numbnuts. It's okay to adopt a position similar to an authoritative person's position as long as you give a good reason for doing so. My reason (similar to Mill's) is that humans are essentially autonomous. We are cognitively separated from one another so we get to define what is pleasurable to us.

Turtlekid, on the other hand, said "God told me to." That's a fallacious appeal to authority. He gave no reason for his assertion other than a person in authority said it.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 11:35:22 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2011, 11:31:12 PM »
My favorite of your quotes is the time you told me why I should have any qualms about it.

OH WAIT
I don't bring it up to argue with you; I use it to show people that you're literally an insane sociopath.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2011, 07:19:25 AM »
I don't bring it up to argue with you; I use it to show people that you're literally an insane sociopath.
But no one has told me why that makes me insane and/or sociopathic, and more importantly, why those are bad things.

No, you're considering yourself better than God -- that is, more equipped to handle a subset of humanity. He didn't say anything about it -- so He's essentially "neutral" on how we should approach this, which in my interpretation means He'll sort them out. And before you pull out Leviticus 18:22 -- Read a bit further and see what other "crimes" are equally sinful. Go on , if you're not naked you're probably committing a sin on the order of sodomy right now.
There's a difference, though, between moral law (things like murder and sodomy) and ceremonial law (things like regulations for animal sacrifice), the latter of which are no longer relevant.

Also, just curious, what other things that are legal right now would be illegal in Turtlekid world?
Abortion.  And reality television.

Turtlekid, on the other hand, said "God told me to." That's a fallacious appeal to authority. He gave no reason for his assertion other than a person in authority said it.
Why is it fallacious, and why do I need another reason?  The God of the universe who made and is in charge of literally everything, who knows everything, tells you to do something.  Do you really need another reason?

An "appeal to authority" can really only be fallacious if said authority is fallible.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Black Mage

  • HP 1018 MP 685
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2011, 07:23:06 AM »
But no one has told me why that makes me insane and/or sociopathic, and more importantly, why those are bad things.

So your argument is now that you don't understand why being insane and/or a sociopath is a bad thing?

I'm honestly not sure whose point you're trying to prove.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2011, 07:26:20 AM »
My argument is that you shouldn't assume that I know why those are bad things, and you shouldn't regard them as bad things unless you have a reason.  I hear from PL that those are pretty important to have when you make claims.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2011, 01:20:16 PM »
Ok, so you're one of those types who cherry-picks from the Bible to justify your bigotry. Got it. If the word of God is infallible, as you think it is, you don't get to pick and choose what words you follow. Again, this means you think you're better than God is.

Abortion in literally all cases? Ok, hypothetical scenario here:

A woman, roughly 4 months pregnant, gets some tests done and discovers the unborn child has a rare condition called sirenomelia, otherwise known as Mermaid Syndrome. Further tests show that the child's kidneys/bladder will never function correctly, and as such the child has a zero percent chance of survival. (There are very very rare cases of children with this surviving, but if the kidney issues occur the child won't live a day.) During the extremely short time the child is alive, it will be in severe pain (don't GIS it, the images are pretty hideous). Now, fast forward a bit. The mother develops a fairly serious infection, and having to give birth, even via C-section, suddenly has a much higher chance of being fatal.

Now, given that there's zero chance of this fetus being viable, and there's a fairly high chance of the mother dying if the fetus isn't aborted, do you honestly think abortion, in this case, should be illegal?

If so, you are no longer able to call yourself "pro-life".

Reality TV ... heh, not sure what to say about that. I personally think lying to people on "news" programs should be illegal (if you want to lie, they have to be called "entertainment", NOT news). I'm looking at you, Rupert Murdoch.

Also I think the fact that you think that you "aren't sure" if my sex life should be the government's business is a sign of sociopathy -- you're actively trying to control and manipulate other people's lives. That is one of the defining traits of a sociopath.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 01:22:46 PM by Insane Steve »
~I.S.~

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2011, 01:48:38 PM »
Ok, so you're one of those types who cherry-picks from the Bible to justify your bigotry. Got it. If the word of God is infallible, as you think it is, you don't get to pick and choose what words you follow. Again, this means you think you're better than God is.
When did I ever say that I'm picking and choosing which laws I want to follow?  The New Testament makes clear that ceremonial law is no longer necessary, since the need for sacrifice was fulfilled by Christ for good.  Moral laws, regarding sin, are still very relevant, and still condemned in the New Testament just as much as in the Old.

Abortion in literally all cases? Ok, hypothetical scenario here:

A woman, roughly 4 months pregnant, gets some tests done and discovers the unborn child has a rare condition called sirenomelia, otherwise known as Mermaid Syndrome. Further tests show that the child's kidneys/bladder will never function correctly, and as such the child has a zero percent chance of survival. (There are very very rare cases of children with this surviving, but if the kidney issues occur the child won't live a day.) During the extremely short time the child is alive, it will be in severe pain (don't GIS it, the images are pretty hideous). Now, fast forward a bit. The mother develops a fairly serious infection, and having to give birth, even via C-section, suddenly has a much higher chance of being fatal.

Now, given that there's zero chance of this fetus being viable, and there's a fairly high chance of the mother dying if the fetus isn't aborted, do you honestly think abortion, in this case, should be illegal?

If so, you are no longer able to call yourself "pro-life".
But that's not like 99.9% of abortion cases.  It's not a matter of taking a life, it's a matter of saving a life.  Life of the mother cases are the only ones in which there's ever even a tiny shadow of a doubt.  But again, they're the exception, not the rule.

Also I think the fact that you think that you "aren't sure" if my sex life should be the government's business is a sign of sociopathy -- you're actively trying to control and manipulate other people's lives. That is one of the defining traits of a sociopath.
If you want a system of law, then you're going to control elements of peoples' lives, no matter what.  Do you think that, say, theft (because murder has been used as an example a lot lately) should be permissible as long as it's done in private?

Also, no one has explained to me yet why being a sociopath is bad.

Reality TV ... heh, not sure what to say about that.
That was just a joke.  I just think reality TV is pox on the entertainment industry because it's a quick and lazy substitute for actual creativity, and because there are only so many time-slots, the genuinely good shows are the ones that get canceled because they don't make money as quickly.  But there's nothing morally wrong with it, per se, and to discuss it in-depth is probably for a different thread (but who am I kidding, all NatDT discussions end up debating the morality of homosexuality eventually).
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2011, 03:12:43 PM »
Why is it fallacious, and why do I need another reason?  The God of the universe who made and is in charge of literally everything, who knows everything, tells you to do something.  Do you really need another reason?

You cannot empirically prove that God exists. A claim that is asserted without proof can be denied without it. In short, your appeal to authority is its own reductio ad absurdum.

Think of it like this. I believe in a god who tells me to murder and slaughter little children. When I go to court, if my "reason" for doing so is "My god told me to do it!" they're going to throw my butt in jail.

An "appeal to authority" can really only be fallacious if said authority is fallible.

An appeal to authority is always fallacious because it's not really a reason for doing something. You can agree with what the authoritative figure is saying, but you have to give a reason for that also.

John Stuart Mill

Here's my authoritative figure,

I pretty much agree with this

here's me agreeing with him,

because we're cognitively separated from one another.

and here's my reason.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 03:19:22 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2011, 03:19:12 PM »
You cannot empirically prove that God exists.
No, but I can be pretty sure of it all the same.

Think of it like this. I believe in a god who tells me to murder and slaughter little children. When I go to court, if my "reason" for doing so is "My god told me to do it!" they're going to throw my ass in jail.
Actually, if you honestly believed that you were ordered by a deity to commit those crimes, you'd be more likely to be committed.

But it's irrelevant, anyway, since any "god" who advocates murder isn't God.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2011, 03:28:47 PM »
No, but I can be pretty sure of it all the same.

I'm pretty sure that an invisible blueberry muffin exists on Jupiter. Does that give my claim that homosexuality should be criminalized any weight?

But it's irrelevant, anyway, since any "god" who advocates murder isn't God.

That's highly debatable. God kills a whole bunch of people in the Bible.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 03:31:26 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

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