Author Topic: Button-Mashery and Analog Stick Rotisserie (Read 10570 times)

Glorb · « **on:** April 14, 2007, 03:38:07 PM »

First things first: I know, "rotisserie" is not the right word, "rotation" is, but I wanted something to rhyme with "mashery". Anyway...

If you've played any modern video game, chances are you've encountered a "quick-time event", or something where you mash a button or wiggle/rotate an analog stick in sequence. Shenmue started the trend, but ever since God of War implemented it, most action games have them. From outrunning boulders in Resident Evil 4 to lifting weights in GTA: San Andreas to fixing bikes and punching crotches in Bully, it seems like every game has them. My question is, then: Are they really that necessary? I realize that, to get a challenge out of a certain part in a game, you can't just have it happen in a cutscene, but it seems like developers are relying too much on the formula. Instead of, say, hacking into a computer by matching numbers or something else resembling hacking, instead you have to match some button inputs. And rather than holding down a button to run, you now have to mash it like crazy. It's tiring on thumbs, and potentially damaging to controllers. I'm all for immersion, but I hope future games will implement a more varied version than simply hitting a button over and over again.

The Chef · « **Reply #1 on:** April 14, 2007, 03:41:20 PM »

I think that might be one of the reasons the Wii was made the way it is. Too bad the developers haven't really figured that out yet.

Glorb · « **Reply #2 on:** April 14, 2007, 03:45:22 PM »

Yeah...I think that quick-time events in a Wii agme would be, if handled correctly, highly awesome. That's assuming they don't do the same thing with buttons, though.

BP · « **Reply #3 on:** April 14, 2007, 03:55:11 PM »

A similar thing has come for the Wii: Shaking the remote like a maniac.
Button mashing > stick rotating. I don't think there's anything wrong with button-mashing... It makes sense for button-controlled Microgames or RPG attacks in which you must fill a meter for the action command...

MaxVance · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2007, 04:34:44 PM »

Quote from: Glorb on April 14, 2007, 03:38:07 PM

First things first: I know, "rotisserie" is not the right word, "rotation" is, but I wanted something to rhyme with "mashery".

"Mashery" and "rotisserie" don't rhyme. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Quote from: Bird Person on April 14, 2007, 03:55:11 PM

A similar thing has come for the Wii: Shaking the remote like a maniac.

Well, I think that's understandable for when it's used (in SPM, if you get swallowed by something, you shake the remote to escape) because if you got swallowed by something, you would shake like a maniac to get out, right?

Robert · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:04:15 AM »

Quote from: MaxVance on April 14, 2007, 04:34:44 PM

"Mashery" and "rotisserie" don't rhyme. Otherwise, I agree with you.
Well, I think that's understandable for when it's used (in SPM, if you get swallowed by something, you shake the remote to escape) because if you got swallowed by something, you would shake like a maniac to get out, right?

Did you have to place a spoiler warning on "get out"? But I do agree with you.

I'm all for button mashing, as long as that's not all you do in the game. Button mashing can sometimes build tension and/or bring excitement to a situation, like in LoZ:TW or RE4. It would be cool to see more games use the Wii-mote in those "quick-time" events, though.

Glorb · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2007, 12:11:03 PM »

"Mashery" and "rotisserie" both end with an "ee" sound, which is good enough for me.

Anyhoo, I guess the problem I have with it is that developers rely on button-mashing for things that shoudln't require it. Running I understand, because that's a fast, repetitive motion, but filling a meter?

BP · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2007, 01:23:22 PM »

Well what, you want it to be EASY to blow up someone? There has to be some challenge...

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2007, 08:26:40 PM »

I agree with Glorb on this one. WWE: Smackdown vs. Raw is riddled with mini-games that require button mashing.

Glorb · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2007, 03:10:13 PM »

I think that filling up a meter should be done in some way other than pounding on a button. Maybe, and this is off the top of my head, getting successive attacks in a row, or whatever. Think about it: if you were a wizard, would you charge up your attacks by pounding your fists on something? Hopefully not, unless it was a Moogle or something else annoying. I think that a Guitar Hero-eusqe minigame where you hold down certain buttons to charge up the meter quicker would be awesome. However, things like unscrewing screws by rotating the stick is cool, because you're doing something that resembles something on-screen.

Fwirt · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2007, 09:44:53 PM »

Quote from: Glorb on April 16, 2007, 03:10:13 PM

I think that filling up a meter should be done in some way other than pounding on a button. Maybe, and this is off the top of my head, getting successive attacks in a row, or whatever. Think about it: if you were a wizard, would you charge up your attacks by pounding your fists on something? Hopefully not, unless it was a Moogle or something else annoying. I think that a Guitar Hero-eusqe minigame where you hold down certain buttons to charge up the meter quicker would be awesome. However, things like unscrewing screws by rotating the stick is cool, because you're doing something that resembles something on-screen.

Maybe pounding your fists on something could be part of the attack.... Glorb, do you pound your controller with your fists?

I always liked the "push buttons in the right order" approach. The two best examples I can think of right now are most of Vivian's attacks in PM:TTYD and the sword fighting duel game in MP2.

I hate button-mashing. Certain games make your fingers fall off from mashing buttons (yes, my fingers will break before the controller.) The button mashing stage in Mischief Makers is preventing me from getting all 52 golds, the soda guzzling game in Chrono Trigger was quite annoying, and the button mashing in the Crane Game in MP2 is just as impossible. The stick rotations are just as bad. Have you ever tried to play with a dead (not springy) joystick. Not fun. But what's even more annoying than joystick rotation is D-Pad rotation as in several special moves in SMRPG. That hurts your thumbs.

Didn't Nintendo have to provide gloves for people when they claimed that the joystick rotation in MP was scraping skin off of their hands?

Glorb · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2007, 12:27:00 PM »

Yeah, I hate the rotation in the MP games. When I said rotation to unscrew screws, I meant however fast the player is going; if the rotation is fast, the the unscrewing takes faster, and so on. The rotation in the MP games is insanely fast, and is only possible by using your hand. In fact, my friend is so used to doing it that way that he uses that method when wiggling the analog stick in RE4 and Dead Rising, even though you don't need to be that fast.

BP · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2007, 10:38:25 PM »

I use my palm to do the action command for Ms. Mowz's slap attack in The Thousand-Year Door... to iterate, what you must do is move the stick left and right until you're full of power.

Kojinka · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2007, 06:48:50 AM »

I also do that for one of Koops' attacks. You gain power for it the same way that you do for Ms. Mowz's slap attack.

Fwirt · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2007, 10:02:59 PM »

For those attacks (and Bow's in PM) I just grab the analog stick between my thumb and forefinger and jiggle it back and forth. By the way, I just noticed that my CT is gone (I never understood it anyway)

Matty_G33 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2007, 12:43:27 AM »

The N64 controller should really have a much better thumbstick, because one time in Mario Party, I managed to make and pop a blister while playing Paddle Battle. I'm sick of those rotating joystick minigames on the N64 versions of MP. At least the thumbstick(s) on the GCN Controller and Wii Nunchuks and Classic Controllers are a big improvement compared to the N64.

Glorb · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2007, 08:42:04 AM »

That's all good and well, but I noticed that you attach an unrelated Mario sprite every time you post. Is that, like, your gimmick, or whatever?

Matty_G33 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2007, 07:09:35 PM »

No but it annoys people.

BP · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:39:58 PM »

Then... quit it.

Matty_G33 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:46:55 PM »

I did. MEGAÃŸÂ¥TE told me to. I can't get nice messages from people these days can't I? It can be a alternative to a signature.

bobman37 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 20, 2007, 10:52:20 PM »

Neh. Not really. It's kind of annoying.

This is why I like the Fungi Forums. I can read the posts. A lot of other forums have images and weird quoting systems and banners for signatures that are bigger than the post itself. Way distracting.

Matty_G33 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 20, 2007, 11:11:34 PM »

Do you want some sprites? I was being generous...

Suffix · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2007, 11:32:59 PM »

I'm sure we'd ask or visit a mainstream site if we were in need of sprites.

Matty_G33 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 20, 2007, 11:44:02 PM »

What about custom position sprites?

Suffix · « **Reply #24 on:** April 21, 2007, 12:57:00 AM »

Well, put that in some relevant thread, I guess. But let it be known that almost 100% of currently available threads are not relevant and do not require you to attach something.

Matty_G33 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 21, 2007, 05:12:07 AM »

I know. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

PaperLuigi · « **Reply #26 on:** April 21, 2007, 06:59:06 AM »

Come on guys, I don't see anything wrong with it.............

Glorb · « **Reply #27 on:** April 21, 2007, 09:06:31 AM »

Well, we're not unfairly criticizing or flaming you, Matt_G33 (by the way, I'm curious: G33, like the assault rifle?); it is annoying, especially when it's totally irrelevent. You won't get banned, probably, unless you start quadruple-posting various nonsense craziness like Warioman. But beside that, you're fine.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #28 on:** April 21, 2007, 10:04:15 AM »

Custom sprites are pretty much as bad as fan fiction.

Vidgmchtr · « **Reply #29 on:** April 21, 2007, 12:53:22 PM »

Quote from: Chupperson Weird on April 21, 2007, 10:04:15 AM

Custom sprites are pretty much as bad as fan fiction.

Quoted for truth.

The Chef · « **Reply #30 on:** April 21, 2007, 04:45:17 PM »

I think they're worse, but like fanfiction, there happen to be some gems among the heaps of crap.

Glorb · « **Reply #31 on:** April 21, 2007, 06:41:27 PM »

Generally, I hold custom sprites in higher regard than fan fiction. Fan fiction is the nerdiest form of neditude besides cosplay.

The Chef · « **Reply #32 on:** April 21, 2007, 06:48:33 PM »

I actually think fan-movies and fan-games are the nerdiest out of any fan-made thing. This is because they're the hardest to make and therefore require and extremely strong devotion that can only be found in the nerdiest of nerds.

Glorb · « **Reply #33 on:** April 22, 2007, 01:42:18 PM »

No, fan-fiction is the worst, and here's why:

Sonic's Bad Quill Day 2

Sonic was sweaty and covered in sweat, having just defeated Eggman. "Ha!", said Sonic, "Now you'll learn not to mess with Sonic, who is me!" Sonic walked home to his beach home on the beach, and saw Tails swimming. But he wasn't swimming, he was drowning. And, sure enough, nearby was a large piece of poop, wearing Sonic's hat. Sonic swore revenge.

The Chef · « **Reply #34 on:** April 22, 2007, 04:18:00 PM »

So maybe if you stop writing fanfics, things won't be so bad anymore.

Glorb · « **Reply #35 on:** April 22, 2007, 04:24:53 PM »

Hmm...probably not. There'd still be the kajillions of Naruto fanfics out there, and once those are all erased from existance, the world will finally be a great place to live.

Lizard Dude · « **Reply #36 on:** April 23, 2007, 09:45:21 AM »

While I consider myself the world's biggest fan of Sonic's Bad Quill Day, the sequel didn't do much for me. Too formulaic!

The Chef · « **Reply #37 on:** April 23, 2007, 01:18:54 PM »

Quote from: Glorb on April 22, 2007, 04:24:53 PM

Hmm...probably not. There'd still be the kajillions of Naruto fanfics out there, and once those are all erased from existance, the world will finally be a great place to live.

I like to pretend those don't exist. As I said before: if you dig through the crap, you can find a few gems.

WarpRattler · « **Reply #38 on:** April 24, 2007, 09:46:26 PM »

BACK ON TOPIC:

You forgot screen-rubbery. Multiplayer Meteos against one of my friends results in this on his end every time; it only worked the first time, because I wasn't expecting it. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there are games that rely on that as a mechanic.

Chupperson Weird · « **Reply #39 on:** April 24, 2007, 09:57:23 PM »

Feel the Magic.

WarpRattler · « **Reply #40 on:** April 24, 2007, 10:30:31 PM »

Right. Also, sometimes that trampoline minigame in SM64DS gets to that point.

Glorb · « **Reply #41 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:36:09 AM »

I liked the touch-screen mechanics in Wario: Master of Disguise (the game Nintendo stole from me) at first, but once you get more disguises, the game becomes extremely frustrating and nigh-unplayable.

"It's an artist's hat, not an astronaut helmet, you stupid crap!"

Sqrt2 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 14, 2007, 03:29:09 AM »

Button-Mashing is the only way I'll ever beat my younger brother at Soul Calibur 2, so obviously I'm in favour of it. In fact, I only manage to pull of certain combo moves whilst button mashing. However, I'm not such a fan of excessive Analog Stick Rotating (as in some Mario Party minigames) or having to rub 1 button repeatedly (as in Banjo-Tooie, Domination mini-game in Mario Party 4, Huff 'N' Puff boss battle in Paper Mario etc).

Glorb · « **Reply #43 on:** May 14, 2007, 08:58:26 AM »

Although you can button-mash and easily pull off special moves in Mortal Kombat (in fact, it's the only way I'm able to get Scorpion to do that "Get over here!" thing), I've always considered Soul Calibur one of those high-brow, classy, technical fighting games where button-mashing does nothing against skilled opponents. But then again, I've never actually played it.

Lizard Dude · « **Reply #44 on:** May 14, 2007, 01:04:04 PM »

One of the reasons so many people like Soul Calibur is because button-mashing can yield some fierce results and flashy looking moves against fair- to good-level opponents. It won't work against really good players, of course.