Author Topic: Super Mario 3D Land (Read 60050 times)

ShadowBrain · « **Reply #60 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:52:37 AM »

Quote from: Weegee on June 09, 2011, 11:25:33 PM

True, although nerfing power-ups like the Tanooki suit rather than balancing levels to deal with them shows a lack of integrity on Nintendo's part.

At any rate, making the games increasingly linear seems like a step backwards to me. Much of the fun in SM64 and Sunshine was just messing around and trying new things. Doesn't preventing the player from doing such things effectively defeat the purpose of making the games 3D?

This. It took me a while to come to grips with the fact that SMG was really linear compared to the previous Mario game, but they're really pushing the definition of "full-3D now.

WarpRattler · « **Reply #61 on:** June 10, 2011, 08:50:14 AM »

Except, again, it wasn't.

Go back and play through SM64 and SMS, get everything in both games, and tell me how many of those stars and Shines you can get by "experimenting" compared to how many pretty much require you to follow a set path. Boss fights count as the latter because there's almost always only one way to fight them; same for Blue Coins in SMS.

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 10, 2011, 09:07:03 AM »

For me, at least, it's not about the individual stars so much as the order in which you get them. In the first couple of Mario's 3D outings, it was possible to jump into a level for the very first time and come back out with the sixth star for that level. Now it's basically "get this star, then this star, then this star," etc. I think that this, in turn, has led to the courses feeling more railroaded, with no sidepaths and no real sense of freedom. While the methods to obtain the stars have always been more or less set in stone, the courses in 64 and Sunshine were much more open to exploration and experimentation - contrast with the Galaxy games' levels, most of which consisted of a series of platforms in a rigid order that you had to jump across to get the star at the end. Now, I don't necessarily agree that a 3D game should always be a massive, open world affair, but the more explorable and nonlinear format has always worked better with 3D Mario.

WarpRattler · « **Reply #63 on:** June 10, 2011, 09:25:59 AM »

On the other hand, many courses specifically prevent you from getting stars/Shines out of the specified order by only allowing you to access them (or only having them appear at all) when you select that star/Shine when entering the course.

It's worse in SMS than in SM64 due to Yoshis and the various nozzles - and, again, Blue Coins, which by themselves comprise a fifth of the Shines in the game.

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #64 on:** June 10, 2011, 09:28:25 AM »

Admittedly, I was thinking mostly of SM64 when I wrote that. But even in Sunshine, the courses still felt more like "areas" rather than "courses," where the latter carries a connotation that the goal is simply to get from point "A" to point "B."

jmdblazer · « **Reply #65 on:** June 10, 2011, 02:50:03 PM »

I believe this could work well, if a game entirely like a 2D Mario is what they're shooting for. I feel Galaxy tried to be both linear and open-worlded, and never succeeded in either (particularly failing in open world exploration; the Sunshine-esque galaxy in 2 din't capture the essence of what Sunshine achieved in its explorable worlds). I enjoy both the 2D and 3D Marios, but I'd rather have a clearly defined gameplay style. 64 and Sunshine had excellent worlds to visit that were enjoyable to explore and just have fun, while the 2D Marios are good in their own respect.

Weegee · « **Reply #66 on:** June 10, 2011, 03:08:05 PM »

In 64 and, to a lesser extent, Sunshine, most Stars/Shines were placed throughout each world rather than at the end of each world. Sure, there are numerous exceptions, but missions like "Behind Chain Chomp's Gate" made for a more open atmosphere.

WarpRattler · « **Reply #67 on:** June 10, 2011, 03:39:03 PM »

Fair enough - even if there's only one actual route for a star, it certainly feels more open when you've traveled around much of the stage to get there. It's an understandable enough mindset for a level designer to put the player in; to use an example of another genre that utilizes it often, most puzzle games in the vein of The Incredible Machine or Portal operate on the same premise: though they may seem "open-ended" due to the amount of tools (or, in Portal's case, the amount of applications for the single tool), in practice you're only going to have a couple of solutions that work for a given puzzle.

Red Menace Forman · « **Reply #68 on:** June 10, 2011, 10:31:28 PM »

Quote from: Turtlekid1 on June 10, 2011, 09:28:25 AM

Admittedly, I was thinking mostly of SM64 when I wrote that. But even in Sunshine, the courses still felt more like "areas" rather than "courses," where the latter carries a connotation that the goal is simply to get from point "A" to point "B."

Quote from: Weegee on June 10, 2011, 03:08:05 PM

In 64 and, to a lesser extent, Sunshine, most Stars/Shines were placed throughout each world rather than at the end of each world. Sure, there are numerous exceptions, but missions like "Behind Chain Chomp's Gate" made for a more open atmosphere.

You want linearity though? Galaxy's level design didn't allow for a lot of free roam, and I know why folks hated that. But Sunshine? Sunshine was linear in a WAY more dastardly manner.

What people never talk about is that there is no Shine Count for the final Bowser Stage. You unlock Corona Mountain by beating Shady Mario in every stage. That's always episode 7, so that's always 7 missions per stage.

The game has 120 Shines, right? So thats 49 missions (minus one shine at the prologue) that are set in stone. The other 70 are just there to make sure all the levels are unlocked, so you can clear the 49 you HAVE to do. One of the reasons I can't stand Sunshine...

billy chilly · « **Reply #69 on:** June 14, 2011, 02:27:29 PM »

Pretty disappointed to see the Tanooki Suit doesn't offer true flight. Also hoping the Raccoon Suit is in there somewhere. Tanooki Suit is great and all, but for my money the Raccoon Suit is way more iconic and nostalgic. Maybe the Raccoon Suit could offer true flight?

We'll have to see how this goes, it seems a lot more linear than 64 or Sunhsine, but not as grand or epic as Galaxy.

Weegee · « **Reply #70 on:** June 14, 2011, 02:29:38 PM »

Tanooki Mario also seems to have lost the ability to become a statue.

billy chilly · « **Reply #71 on:** June 14, 2011, 02:34:44 PM »

Has that been confirmed? If anything, I feel like that for sure means that the Tanooki Suit has taken over for the Raccoon Suit. While that bums me out personally, it makes sense. It'd be like if Galaxy 2 had Bee Mario and then also Hornet Mario. The two ideas are so similar it makes sense to roll them into one power-up.

jmdblazer · « **Reply #72 on:** July 28, 2011, 06:05:31 PM »

I just made a similar post in the Mario Kart 3DS thread. The final title for Super Mario for the 3DS is... Super Mario 3D Land.

Eh, it's ok I guess, but brings to mind Super Mario Land. I'm not really sure what Nintendo's motive was for naming the game this way.

Turtlekid1 · « **Reply #73 on:** July 28, 2011, 06:06:16 PM »

You just answered your own question there.

BP · « **Reply #74 on:** July 29, 2011, 12:32:39 PM »

I wanted Super Mario 7 >:[