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Miscellaneous => General Chat => Topic started by: Mr. Melee on June 27, 2007, 10:23:17 PM

Title: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Mr. Melee on June 27, 2007, 10:23:17 PM
This is something that's been bugging me for quite a while. What is the point of Rated M if there is a Rated AO? First of all, it's only one year's worth of difference, so it seems very superfluous. Second, and more importantly, it seems as if a person is going to undergo some serious and critical change between the ages of 17 and 18 and become mature enough to handle nudity. It all just makes no sense.
I think there should just be a Rated M that is 18+. If you disagree, then you probably understand the seemingly-subtle difference here, so please explain it to me so that I may get a better understanding. As of now, though, the whole thing is superfluous.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: MaxVance on June 27, 2007, 10:30:43 PM
The ESRB is probably just afraid to use AO due to its harshness. Besides, stores don't have to not sell M rated games to those under 17. It's just recently that some stores hae started doing that. If games are really that violent, the ESRB should just start using AO more.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 27, 2007, 10:34:24 PM
+ Yes, I agree AO is pointless (at least the age 18 vs. 17 idea).

+ The ESRB is not afraid to use AO. Recent Manhunt 2 ratings have proven this. People just don't usually make games that "bad" because...

+ Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all explicity ban AO-games from being released on their consoles. Only PC games can survive being AO (like the uncensored version of the latest Leisure Suit Larry).
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: SolidShroom on June 27, 2007, 10:42:03 PM
AO ratings make a game's sales skyrocket though. Like, for some reason I really really really want Manhunt 2 now.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 27, 2007, 11:10:54 PM
AO ratings make the game's sales ALMOST ZERO because the game can't be released on Wii, PS3, or 360, and will not be sold in Wal*Mart, Target, GameStop, EB Games, and all the others.

Your only hope of buying an AO game these days is through direct-download purchase on PC or from a non-huge-chain store. (We had the AO-rated PC Leisure Suit Larry where I work.)
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: MaxVance on June 27, 2007, 11:32:29 PM
AO ratings make a game's sales skyrocket though. Like, for some reason I really really really want Manhunt 2 now.
You want it simply because the ESRB rated it AO? I thought you wanted it before it was rated.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Chupperson Weird on June 27, 2007, 11:37:30 PM
Can parents still authorize minors' purchases of AO games? In Oklahoma I believe my store can't sell AO games (read: GTA:SA original version) at all, but I think the stores in Kansas and Missouri can. I'm wondering if maybe though the person buying it has to be over 18/can't buy it for minors or something.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Robert on June 28, 2007, 06:32:18 AM
Speaking of Manhunt 2, why is everyone banning it? I mean, what's the point of having an AO rating if games given that rating are just going to get banned? The ratings the ESRB give out are supposed to tell you about any explict content on the game, not to ban overly-violent games. If a parent isn't fond of his/her children playing an AO game, then it's as simple as just not buying the game or sitting down with your child to let him/her know what's right and what's wrong before letting him/her play.

I dunno about any of you, but I find censorship and banning to be a big form of government control. Seriously. Why should the government tell me what I can and cannot play?
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on June 28, 2007, 06:44:47 AM
Well, remember that kid in New Zealand or whatever, who was supposedly killed by a kid in a Manhunt-induced bout of rage? It turns out the killer had no copy of the game and was in fact robbing the other kid, who, ironically, was 15 and owned Manhunt. Thus, Manhunt had less than nothing to do with the crime. That didn't stop his family from crusading for video game censorship after that, and now they're calling Rockstar callous and evil because they're releasing Manhunt 2 on the Wii, a little kids' system (never mind Red Steel, Scarface, Resident Evil 4, etc.) I mean, really. Give up the act. They just can't acknowledge that their kid's friend was an evil psycho and that both family's parenting skills are to blame.

I think the ESRB needs to become less strict. For example, the MPAA allows, at most, one usage of the "F" word in a PG-13 movie. Contrast that with the ESRB, which doesn't allow the "S" word to be used in T-rated games. I think it's even okay to have a sex scene in a PG movie as long as it's partly off-camera.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Luigison on June 28, 2007, 10:15:10 AM
GameStop wouldn't sell the original version of GTA:SA after it had been hacked to unlock the sex game.  Never mind the fact the 99% of consumers wouldn't be able to access said content.  On the other hand, GameStop continued to sell a crappy game which has an underage girl bouncing around topless that anyone with the game could see.  On yet another hand, I agree with the Man Hunt 2 AO rating, but don't understand parents who will let little kids watch movies like Saw because they don't have sex/nudity. 
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Robert on June 28, 2007, 08:44:33 PM
GameStop wouldn't sell the original version of GTA:SA after it had been hacked to unlock the sex game.  Never mind the fact the 99% of consumers wouldn't be able to access said content.  On the other hand, GameStop continued to sell a crappy game which has an underage girl bouncing around topless that anyone with the game could see.  On yet another hand, I agree with the Man Hunt 2 AO rating, but don't understand parents who will let little kids watch movies like Saw because they don't have sex/nudity

Really, I don't know why, but there's something about Nudity and sex you don't want your kid to see, whether or not your child has the right morals. I'd much rather see a little kid be playing an M-rated game instead of watching porn. Perhaps it's easier to teach children why killing is wrong than it is teaching them about sex.

I believe that children should be able to watch/ play whatever they want (except porn), as long as they have been tought proper morals and values not to do those things.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: MEGAߥTE on June 28, 2007, 11:35:37 PM
Actually, that's more of an American mindset.  Europe has stronger opposition to violence but has no problem with sex.  I think this was a point Luigison was trying to make.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Chupperson Weird on June 28, 2007, 11:54:08 PM
Referring to Robert's post, I think the whole idea of banning something in order to save us from ourselves is pretty ridiculous too.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: BP on June 29, 2007, 04:32:27 AM
Actually, that's more of an American mindset.  Europe has stronger opposition to violence but has no problem with sex.  I think this was a point Luigison was trying to make.
I never though about how odd that is... Sex is something most people will experience in life, so it should in theory be no problem. However, underage pregnancy is a problem, HIV and other STDs are problems, et cetera. But, of course, so is becoming an insane murderer... I don't know any of this from experience, for the record.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 29, 2007, 06:20:14 AM
We are far too afraid of everything these days. Sex being one of them.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on June 29, 2007, 10:34:15 AM
The view that sex is okay and violence isn't is stupid. The other day at GameStop, a dad was buying Doom 3 on Xbox for his seven-year-old son. He asked if it was rated M for sex/nudity, and the clerk said no. However, the clerk also said that it's rated M for blood, gore, and intense violence (brains literally getting blown out of heads), but the dad didn't care, because it had no nudity. I think that stores should allow clerks to prevent parents from buying inappropriate games for their kids. I don't believe that video games influence behavior in anyone but little kids (they pick up everything from TV, books, and other kids).
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 29, 2007, 11:16:59 AM
The view that sex is okay and violence isn't is stupid.
I think you meant the other way around from your story?
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 29, 2007, 11:22:52 AM
Sex is something that many will experience in their life, but violence is not.

Well, I shouldn't say that, since there's war, domestic violence, blah blah blah. It's just not something we should experience.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sex shouldn't be as bad as violence...kinda.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Vidgmchtr on June 29, 2007, 12:56:46 PM
Both topics need to be explained to children so they get the right idea, no matter how embarassing it is for parents to speak about sex to their children. It's just like those anti-smoking ads that depict parents and children. It really will work the same way if you speak about it to them while they're young enough.

I like Europe's view a bit more than ours, that they're more lax on sex and strict on violence. I'd think there should be a good balance though, as in, not being too lax on both, or being too strict on both. Again, neither of those things are immune from children prying into them.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 29, 2007, 01:20:02 PM
AO is less about one more year of age, and more about "hey, this game will burn out your eyeballs!" Seriously, there's a lot of games that probably needed AO instead of M, but if pretty much nobody will sell a game with that rating--and only about 2 or 3 games in history have ever had it, why should it even exist (On a separate note, does anybody, anywhere ever use the EC rating--even when necessary anymore?)
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on June 29, 2007, 01:28:02 PM
The reason no one thinks AO is ever used is because no one sees them. They're only distributed over the internet and not in stores. The thing is, if you do that, then why not just leave it unrated? So it seems like AO is just the ESRB's way of gently persuading developers to tone down violence. A scare tactic, in other terms.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Chupperson Weird on June 29, 2007, 02:33:27 PM
Because the ESRB really cares about that. Not.
My two cents: Violence is worse because more people get hurt. I'm speaking strictly of ingame depictions of things here, not any imagined effects on society.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 30, 2007, 01:50:16 AM
AO is less about one more year of age, and more about "hey, this game will burn out your eyeballs!"
9 times out of 10, AO just means there are people with no pants or many people without shirts, ef you know what I mean.

There is exactly one (1) game rated EC for Cube (and also PS2). It is Dora The Explorer: Journey To The Purple Planet. Deezer told me it was good.

The only other EC games I could find on any modern system were all three (3) for GBA:
Care Bears- Care Quest
The Koala Brothers- Outback Adventures GBA
Franklin the Turtle

Here are all the AO games I found that were not solely porn:
Playboy the Mansion: Private Party (PC)
Lula 3D (PC)
Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy Director's Cut: PC CD ROM (PC)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PC, PS2, XBOX) -- This was the first version.
Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude Uncut and Uncensored (PC)
Singles (PC)
Peak Entertainment Casinos (PC) -- The only descriptor is "Gambling". That must be a LOT of gambling!!
Thrill Kill (PSX) -- This never came out but I guess it got rated.
The Joy Of Sex (CD-i) -- Not sure what this is, but notice the system it's on.

Then there are 14 more AO-rated PC titles that are pretty much just porn-based but went through the ESRB for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: SolidShroom on June 30, 2007, 03:31:12 AM
I read an article about the Peak Entertainment Casinos game, and apparently they wanted that rating because they are a very anti-underage gambling casino company. I'm not going to link to the article here, however. because of possibly nsfw ads, however I will quote it.
Quote
WILLEMSTAD, Curacao -- Peak Entertainment(TM) announced that they've become the very first online casino company to receive an ESRB rating for its gaming software. ESRB ratings have long been the standard rating system for console and PC video games, but have been largely ignored by the online gambling industry.

Their gambling software was rated Adults Only, a rating that reflects Peak's stance against underage gambling.

"Getting the ESRB rating of AO (Adults Only) was exactly what we wanted. Our goal is to show lawmakers and parents that we share their concerns about underage gambling, and that we are taking the necessary steps to curb it," commented Shelley Knight, public relations manager for Peak Entertainment.

As an advocate for regulation of the online casino industry, Peak Entertainment continues to be at the forefront of self-regulation. "We continue to prepare ourselves if and when regulation of online casinos in major markets like the U.S. should occur," added Knight.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: BP on June 30, 2007, 03:38:08 AM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwheresdezzer.googlepages.com%2Fpr0n2.jpg&hash=30ba9a3f91125d39590b1f0ea878bb48e75c96b7)
The subtitle was completely random.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Chupperson Weird on June 30, 2007, 11:08:43 AM
No "They"?
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on June 30, 2007, 12:46:20 PM
Corrupting children, one game at a time.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: bobman37 on June 30, 2007, 04:17:07 PM
The only other EC games I could find on any modern system were all three (3) for GBA...
I seem to remember there being an Elmo game that was rated EC. It's a possibility that it was an N64 game but I'm leaning toward GBA.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: MaxVance on June 30, 2007, 05:11:45 PM
Glorb, the ESRB wasn't around in 1979.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: PaperLuigi on June 30, 2007, 05:13:03 PM
Mabey that's part of the joke?  :\
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 30, 2007, 10:50:23 PM
I think there were a couple Sesame Street ECs on the N64 (way more games need it now)...

Personally, I can see why most of those AO/porn games are on the PC. For some reason, PC games don't garner as much public attention as console, etc. games do nowadays.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 30, 2007, 10:52:14 PM
Personally, I can see why most of those AO/porn games are on the PC. For some reason, PC games don't garner as much public attention as console, etc. games do nowadays.
Weren't you listening? It's because Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft will not allow AO-rated on their system.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: ShadowBrain on June 30, 2007, 11:08:28 PM
Well, then why does that rating even EXIST?! Besides, I though San Andreas got slapped with an Ao (but only after they found stuff you only saw by hacking...WTD?)
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on June 30, 2007, 11:25:52 PM
Yep, that version got pulled and any version you see on shelves now says "Second Edition" or something at the bottom, which means that the hackable stuff was taken out.

I definitely agree that rating based on stuff you can hack into or, even worse, stuff that modders make on the internet (!), which almost happned to Oblivion, is very dumb.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on July 01, 2007, 11:32:40 AM
That is just so dumb. I'll bet that, within two years, someone will make a mod for a Tomb Raider game that lets you play as Lara Croft naked or whatever, and it'll get banned. Maybe Jack Tomphson will try to turn off the internet.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Lizard Dude on July 01, 2007, 03:08:24 PM
There have been Nude Raider patches for approximately eleven (11) years now. And the games are still coming so don't worry.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on July 02, 2007, 05:06:36 PM
I know, but eventually Jack'll find out, and then he'll accuse Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo collectively of selling porn to minors.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: BP on July 02, 2007, 05:10:58 PM
Nobody listens to him anymore anyway.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Vidgmchtr on July 02, 2007, 05:48:51 PM
Let's be glad he's the one rallying against games. If he wasn't, there'd be someone more competent rallying against them.
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: ShadowBrain on July 02, 2007, 08:45:31 PM
You know considering all the nude patches that COULD be made, every game should be rated "M".

*Painfully imagines what certain games would be like that way* Well... maybe not Tetris...

*Imagines what... other games would be like*
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Glorb on July 03, 2007, 08:40:42 AM
There's actually been nude Tetris. Also, nude Bust-a-Move and even nude Snake (which sounds funny).
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: Vidgmchtr on July 03, 2007, 11:07:51 AM
Nude Bust-A-Move? wtd
Title: Re: Rated M or AO?
Post by: ShadowBrain on July 04, 2007, 08:25:58 AM
Hey, maybe we should make a whole game about this (boy, that'd get locked fast).