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Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: Wiiplayer99 on July 04, 2008, 02:23:21 PM

Title: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 04, 2008, 02:23:21 PM
The only bad thing about the Wii is the VC.
SMB is awful.
The music is too fast, and the picture is flat, even in 4:3.
SMB3 is ok, and Donkey Kong is excellent, when it's in Zoom mode.
Not all VC games are bad, though.
SM64 is perfect in Smart mode. Same for Paper Mario.
So can Nintendo please FIX THE NES VC GAMES!
;(
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: goodie on July 04, 2008, 02:28:12 PM
Nintendo doesn't read this site.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: MEGAߥTE on July 04, 2008, 03:34:12 PM
Sounds more like a problem with your Wii and/or TV and/or perception.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Negative_Zero on July 04, 2008, 03:36:23 PM
Can I just know what smart mode is? Iv never heard of it before
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: goodie on July 04, 2008, 07:23:00 PM
I think it's a mode on some widescreen TVs. If you're watching a 4:3 show, it zooms in to fill the screen. But if it detects motion on one of the edges of the screen, then it will pan over to it.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: ShadowBrain on July 04, 2008, 07:33:23 PM
Yeah, I think I've got those modes on my TV (it took me a few seconds to realize what he was talking about). Alas, it still always cuts a little off on the top/bottom... I think it was made right when big televisions became a "thing", but widescreens weren't widely avalible. Behold, bloated picture on a fat, square screen. But we get HD!

The music is too fast, and the picture is flat, even in 4:3.
Wait, they sped up the music...?

And, if the picture's too flat, I'll gladly loan you my 3-D glasses. I know Mario wasn't red and blue until later games, but we'll work something out.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Chupperson Weird on July 04, 2008, 08:04:07 PM
Is Wiiplayer99 in some obscure European country where they don't use video standards?
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: penguinwizard on July 05, 2008, 12:07:57 AM
Well, the game will quite naturally look flat. That's how they made games back then. Speaking of which, has anybody stepped into a dentist's office and seen an arcade cabinet with Super Mario Bros. on it? I have, thought it was awesome, but wondered why they couldn't include some more modern games. Maybe it's the pick-up-and-play nature.

I have a feeling I'm familiar with the issue of music being sped up. I've either played ROMs where the music was sped up or maybe I thought SMB DX had it sped up (considering it couldn't frickin' leave the level design alone (or was that Super Mario All-Stars), I'd wonder what else they messed with).

You'd think they could just take the most compatible emulators so far, pay a licensing fee if authors are going to complain about it, then make it work with the Wii. However, the problems you're discussing appear to be with the TV instead of anything inherently wrong with the ROMs.

I've never heard of TVs panning the screen when motion's detected to one side, but I wouldn't like that option. You have to get used to the camera moving while you're moving in Super Mario 64 already, and Smash Bros. Melee/Brawl automatically moves the camera depending on where the characters are, so I don't want any extra movement. But I'm not you, and you're probably more knowledgeable of what widescreen TV users expect than I am, seeing as how I don't have a widescreen TV.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Chupperson Weird on July 05, 2008, 10:50:54 AM
It does sound horrific. I haven't personally experienced it either.

Also, Nintendo wrote their own emulators, dude.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 06, 2008, 10:20:25 AM
England being obscure?
That's not very nice, Chupperson Weird.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Turtlekid1 on July 06, 2008, 10:23:49 AM
Nice has nothing to do with it.  It's just not true...
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 06, 2008, 10:26:05 AM
(starts to cry)
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Chupperson Weird on July 06, 2008, 11:00:48 AM
I didn't know where you lived. That's why I asked.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: CrossEyed7 on July 06, 2008, 11:50:09 AM
Didn't you see him on your bloody ol' adventures over there?
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 07, 2008, 12:37:55 AM
I don't mind, Chupperson Weird, I've heard it a lot when I went to America for a holiday.
My friend Tom lives there and his sister is always going on about me being foreign.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: BP on July 07, 2008, 12:40:30 AM
One thing has been driving me absolutely crazy.

Five games are mentioned in the first post but only one is said to be badly emulated, and the second worst is "okay."

Yet it ends with "Nintendo, fix the NES VC games."
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 07, 2008, 12:42:32 AM
Er.....Sorry.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: El Gato on July 07, 2008, 07:39:26 AM
If the game seems sped up it might have something do with regional differences, the european games runs slower than the US/JAP versions I think. But then again, it should've been slower, not faster...

Also, am I the only one who thought the color was a little off on the VC version of SMB? I figured it might have something to do with my TV, but the other VC games looks fine. Was that what you were talking about, Wiiplayer99?
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Chupperson Weird on July 07, 2008, 10:27:06 AM
If I remember correctly, the VC NES games in Europe run at 60Hz instead of 50, so it would be running at the faster, correct speed.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on July 07, 2008, 04:25:37 PM
Well then it also depends on which ROM you use.  The PAL games are supposed to have their action sped up to compensate for the slower system.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Chupperson Weird on July 07, 2008, 08:10:01 PM
What? Did you not read my post?
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: MEGAߥTE on July 07, 2008, 08:52:40 PM
I think he's noting the fact that the Euro ROMs had their speed changed in the actual code, which means that if the emulator is running at the "correct" speed, the ROM is now running faster than it should (72 Hz equivalent).
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: goodie on July 08, 2008, 02:27:42 PM
Here are videos of the two versions of the game:

PAL Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rNd4zK4lo)
NTSC Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-PGjjld9aU)

Wiiplayer99, is your game running at the NTSC speed? Or does it seem even faster?
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Zarkanthesmasher on July 08, 2008, 02:50:40 PM
Oh great - another problem with the video formats. Darn it, why can't the whole world use the same format for video games? That would have gotten rid of all these hassles. :X
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Turtlekid1 on July 09, 2008, 07:46:49 AM
And then I could buy KH:FM and FM+...
It would take a certain amount of stress and mess out for the average customer, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: penguinwizard on July 09, 2008, 01:52:26 PM
Yow, the PAL version hurts my ears, very slow. Not sure which is supposed to be "correct", I always assumed the NTSC version was how the music was meant to be heard.

Not sure whether you meant videogame format (and if so, whether it's formats for one console, like the difference between NTSC and PAL or region locking) or video format. There's probably business reasons and console safety reasons for sticking with specific formats.

I don't want region locking if there's no danger to inserting foreign cartridges (nevermind that I never import games anyway), I wonder how long videogames had to come out in separate PAL versions, and... well, regarding video formats, it should be easier for the Average Joe to import and export most video formats out there. I know that there's codecs to deal with, containers, proprietary formats, possible differences in how much you can edit, the inevitable loss in quality when converting from one format to another... but it should be trivial today to go between AVI and MOV and WMV and MP4 and MPEG and QT and FLA. There's open-source programs to do that, but I'm always astounded that it's difficult to find a free no-trial program that does a good enough job at conversions.

I'll just assume you meant videogame format.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 09, 2008, 02:07:38 PM
From what my best emulator, Nessie says, the NTSC version is correct.
If, for example, you chose the common SMB1.nes file,which is SMB, if you chose PAL
mode, it lags and the Status bar gets dragged along with the level.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Chupperson Weird on July 09, 2008, 02:55:33 PM
Of course NTSC is correct. Japan uses NTSC.
It should not be trivial to convert from one video encoding format to another, because every time you decompress and recompress the data you're going to have more and more loss, not to mention they are standards owned by different companies.
NTSC and PAL are in use because different people think each format has an advantage, or that's just what they decided to use when they established TV in those areas.
Region locking exists so that different distributors can charge however much they feel like for the product they're publishing and theoretically not have competition from other distributors who might be publishing a better or cheaper version of the same product.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Lizard Dude on July 10, 2008, 03:49:47 AM
Wait, so all European games were in slo-mo like that? All their games were n00bified? Hahaha, n00bs.

Final Fantasy must have been horrific.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Wiiplayer99 on July 10, 2008, 11:30:40 AM
n00b?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: MEGAߥTE on July 10, 2008, 01:08:49 PM
Wait, so all European games were in slo-mo like that?
No.  Many games had their timings reprogrammed.  I don't think that PAL video is correct -- they're playing an NTSC game at PAL speed, which is what you'd get if you plugged in an American cart into a Euro NES (assuming you broke region locking) or set your emulator wrong.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Bag of Magic Food on July 10, 2008, 11:32:08 PM
Yes, in fact, one of the videos in the related section (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXpRzoi3Hkk) shows the actual PAL version of the game.  There are still slight differences; you can tell that the music is a little too fast and the sound effects are too slow.  Some companies didn't even bother to modify their games to play at the right speed on PAL systems, so players in regions with the PAL standard would get stuck with slow-mo.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: goodie on July 11, 2008, 03:11:51 PM
Wow, imagine how fast the music would be when time is almost up.
Title: Re: Virtual Console games
Post by: Turtlekid1 on July 12, 2008, 07:26:47 AM
Wait, so all European games were in slo-mo like that? All their games were n00bified? Hahaha, n00bs.

Final Fantasy must have been horrific.

Am I the only one who likes Europeans here? ;D