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Miscellaneous => General Chat => Not at the Dinner Table => Topic started by: Suber Bloober on May 01, 2011, 09:18:32 PM

Title: Osama is Dead
Post by: Suber Bloober on May 01, 2011, 09:18:32 PM
I just saw this on the news. He was killed by a US soldier (I don't know his name).
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: ShadowBrain on May 01, 2011, 09:22:09 PM
I was going to post this, but I thought I'd be proper and wait until the Prez officially announced it. But hey, CNN blew the spoiler, so whatever.

Anyway, this is certainly big news, but I can't say with absolute certainty that it's good news--or rather, that things will improve because of it. Assuming what I know about him is accurate, the world's certainly better off without him, but aren't there more to take his place, or martyr him? That's just minor info talking, but I can't be all excited yet.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Weegee on May 01, 2011, 09:47:13 PM
I expect Turtlekid to misread this thread's title and think to himself, "good riddance".

Anyway, it took them long enough to find him. He was on the FBI's Most Wanted List for what, nearly a decade?
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: PaperLuigi on May 01, 2011, 09:48:04 PM
I wonder what the Tea Party will say about this. You know, how Obama got him after he sent more troops there.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: BP on May 01, 2011, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: Weegee on May 01, 2011, 09:47:13 PM
it took them long enough

My first thought exactly
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Turtlekid1 on May 01, 2011, 10:29:07 PM
Quote from: Weegee on May 01, 2011, 09:47:13 PM
I expect Turtlekid to misread this thread's title and think to himself, "good riddance".
I think not.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: CrossEyed7 on May 01, 2011, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: Weegee on May 01, 2011, 09:47:13 PM
Anyway, it took them long enough to find him. He was on the FBI's Most Wanted List for what, nearly a decade?
I'm pretty sure he had already been on there for several years before 9/11 (which was ten years ago). Good timing on that, incidentally.

Also,

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(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feasthollywoodenglish.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F08%2Fps-usa-waving-flag.gif%3Fw%3D500&hash=f99f96e2ee38798f541172226b709d06c1ea047b) WOOOOOOOOOOOT! (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Feasthollywoodenglish.files.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F08%2Fps-usa-waving-flag.gif%3Fw%3D500&hash=f99f96e2ee38798f541172226b709d06c1ea047b)

(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faboutusa.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif%2F218143950%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif&hash=55eb00948b7e8c43a0e52bf5322f8d3157603567) (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faboutusa.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif%2F218143950%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif&hash=55eb00948b7e8c43a0e52bf5322f8d3157603567) (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faboutusa.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif%2F218143950%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif&hash=55eb00948b7e8c43a0e52bf5322f8d3157603567) (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faboutusa.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif%2F218143950%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif&hash=55eb00948b7e8c43a0e52bf5322f8d3157603567) (https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Faboutusa.wikispaces.com%2Ffile%2Fview%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif%2F218143950%2FWaving_American_Flag.gif&hash=55eb00948b7e8c43a0e52bf5322f8d3157603567)

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bout [darn] time

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Even though we're still going to be in Afghanistan for another ten years, it's nice to have a reason to celebrate. (And what better way to celebrate than in the style of a 2001-era webpage?)

I'll sort out my mixed feelings tomorrow.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: CrossEyed7 on May 01, 2011, 11:55:29 PM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi51.tinypic.com%2Fbjfwiw.jpg&hash=fd0fb5fa96527a982c5c283602e8142893a3ac2b)

This is apparently a shot of the mansion where he was hiding out being burned down. A group of 20-25 American soldiers went in and shot him in the head during a firefight, with no U.S. or civilian deaths, and were able to take out a bunch of hard drives and stuff that they wouldn't have been able to get if they'd hit him with a drone strike.

Word is that he was in a custom-built mansion in Abottabad, a tourist city 75 miles from Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan. We got the tip that he was there back in August. Bin Laden was in a major tourist city less than 100 miles from Pakistan's capital for six months. No surprise, then, that Pakistan wasn't told about the operation until after it was done, when Obama called up the president of Pakistan and said "Uh, yeah, we just went into your country and found Osama and killed him. Thought you might want to know."

So yeah, decent chance that Pakistan will soon be number four on our list of wars.



I have to say, as a Christian, I don't really like the idea of celebrating and feeling joy over any person's death. Part of me likes it, but... hm. I'll quote some of my friends on Facebook:

"Perhaps it was necessary, but there are larger questions to be asked. Should we rejoice in the sealed fate of an unredeemed soul? Evil has not been destroyed, and the world will continue to be broken. It's a perfect example of how we can't save ourselves. We don't know what's to come of this. It could make things even worse for all we know. It looks like a good thing, but as I said, the "unredemption" of the situation should sadden us as Christians. I guess it makes me long for the time when we don't have to live in a messed up, sinful world."

"not gonna lie and maybe this makes me a bad Christian but I've never been happier over somebody's death I have been crying for joy :) I feel like dancing in the street"

"So how many years, lives, and billions of dollars did it take for US to finally get our revenge for 9/11? There's this moral fibre niggling in the back of my conscience saying 'Vengeance is mine; I will repay.'"


(Granted, it's easy for me and, as far as I know, them, to say we shouldn't be excited about it when none of us lost anyone on 9/11.)



And of course there's the reality that this isn't going to change a [darn] thing. Not for the better, at least. Gas will still be expensive, Al Qaeda will still try to kill us, the Middle East will still hate us, we'll still keep fighting the same endless wars, our rights will keep being curtailed in the name of security, and if anything changes, it'll be retaliatory attacks.

Obama said in his speech basically to not harbor any illusions that this means we're any closer to the end of the war. While my initial kneejerk reaction was to be reminded of Palpatine becoming emperor after Grievous was dead (I hate that I use the prequels to make real-world comparisons; I need to watch better movies), I guess I also have to give him some props for not putting up a Mission Accomplished banner when retaliation's probably coming. But still, yeah.

Also, I still think we as a nation need to seriously examine our role in this whole mess. I don't mean like "WTC7 was demolished intentionally and the Twin Towers are actually still there it just looks like they're not because Halliburton put up giant mirrors!!!"; I mean stuff like this here thingie (http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Anthropology/publications/AFGHANConflict.htm) from 1998, when bin Laden had just blown up our embassies. But I doubt we'll be able to talk candidly enough for at least thirty years or so without it sounding like blaming victims.

I guess I ended up starting out on sorting out my mixed feelings already. [darnit], why does globo-militaro-politics-is stuff have to be so complicated?
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: bobman37 on May 02, 2011, 12:01:16 AM
Quote from: CrossEyed7 on May 01, 2011, 11:55:29 PM
So yeah, decent chance that Pakistan will soon be number four on our list of wars.
Are you crazy?

What about the part where Pakistani militants helped the US soldiers during the operation? There's no way the Pakistani president didn't at least know the US was carrying out an operation.

Besides, we just eliminated a superstar terrorist from continuing to exist in their country. I'd think they'd be happy about it.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: PaperLuigi on May 02, 2011, 12:05:38 AM
Quote from: CrossEyed7 on May 01, 2011, 11:55:29 PM
And of course there's the reality that this isn't going to change a [darn] thing. Not for the better, at least. Gas will still be expensive, Al Qaeda will still try to kill us, the Middle East will still hate us, we'll still keep fighting the same endless wars, our rights will keep being curtailed in the name of security, and if anything changes, it'll be retaliatory attacks.

QFT. It'll never end.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: CrossEyed7 on May 02, 2011, 12:26:27 AM
From what I heard, the operation was entirely U.S. soldiers and Pakistan wasn't informed about it until afterward. I could be wrong, though, and things will be more clear in a day or two. The editor of foreignpolicy.com confirms (http://twitter.com/#!/blakehounshell/statuses/64906803468701696), though, and I believe Obama said in the speech that he called up the president of Pakistan after the operation was over to let him know what we just did.

FAKE EDIT: Found the transcript. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-obama-speech-transcript_n_856122.html)

Quote from: Obama
Over the years, I’ve repeatedly made clear that we would take action within Pakistan if we knew where bin Laden was. That is what we’ve done. But it’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding. Indeed, bin Laden had declared war against Pakistan as well, and ordered attacks against the Pakistani people.

Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts. They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations. And going forward, it is essential that Pakistan continue to join us in the fight against al Qaeda and its affiliates.
Hm. Kinda ambiguous, really. I'll have to wait for some more details tomorrow.

But what about the part where bin Laden was in a huge house in a huge city right next door to their capital for six months (and, according to this (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/05/osama-bin-ladens-compound-already-mapped-on-google/238116/), less than a thousand feet away from a Pakistani police station)? How does that happen without important people noticing.

I'm not saying I want a war, I'm just saying we've gone to war for lesser things in the last twenty years and I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up fighting them soon.

FAKE EDIT: This CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.raid/index.html?hpt=T1) says that Pakistan says that Pakistani intelligence agents were there.

Maybe we trusted their military but not their government?

If Pakistan's really on our side, awesome. Seems like someone's got some explaining to do, though.

Also, there may have been a civilian death (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42853338/ns/local_news-portland_or/). A woman who was used as a human shield was killed. No word yet on who she was.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: bobman37 on May 02, 2011, 12:55:45 AM
Yeah it looks like no other countries knew of the operation. I heard them say on CNN that the Pakistan military was involved, but it's hard to say. Regardless, I can't imagine why we would go to war with Pakistan over this.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Weegee on May 02, 2011, 01:51:58 AM
We'll probably end up fighting Pakistan because it is impossible to please people from that part of the world.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: CrossEyed7 on May 02, 2011, 09:32:47 AM
Lots of details here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/osama-bin-laden-is-killed-by-us-forces-in-pakistan/2011/05/01/AFXMZyVF_story.html).
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Jman on May 02, 2011, 09:46:27 AM
I agree with CrossEyed.  This has the most impact on anyone who actually lost a loved one on that fateful day 10 years ago this year.  I understand that it might be wrong to celebrate the death of another person, but it's not like I was going to act like nothing ever happened.  Even though I was only 12 at the time, I was deeply affected by the WTC attacks. 
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: bobman37 on May 02, 2011, 01:46:41 PM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1tyfj.jpg&hash=76bc57967638d0559f8a334a2fdce20e91f158dd)
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Lizard Dude on May 02, 2011, 02:20:54 PM
I lol'd hard.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: ShadowBrain on May 02, 2011, 04:52:08 PM
[darn], I wish I'd thought of that.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: PaperLuigi on May 02, 2011, 04:56:37 PM
I posted "Bin Laden shouldn't have put his real address on the PSN" on my Facebook last night.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: bobman37 on May 02, 2011, 10:11:00 PM
Yeah, I saw that on Reddit as well.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: PaperLuigi on May 02, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
That's basically where I got it.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: bobman37 on May 03, 2011, 12:40:17 AM
That's what I meant.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: PaperLuigi on May 03, 2011, 01:42:23 AM
Eeyup.

EDIT: http://www.5min.com/Video/Osama-bin-Laden-Is-Dead-The-Mediagasm-517057965

I just love how the Fox News anchor reacts.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: CrossEyed7 on May 03, 2011, 11:02:19 PM
This. (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/report-neighbors-claim-bin-ladens-would-not-return-balls-kicked-over-compound-wall/)
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Turtlekid1 on May 04, 2011, 08:01:44 AM
I lost.
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: BP on May 04, 2011, 02:09:38 PM
The URL made me think that the neighbors were mad about a wall and kicked bin Laden's balls, and that they were glad he could not kick theirs now that he is dead
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: Luigison on May 23, 2011, 07:47:35 AM
(https://themushroomkingdom.net/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sott.net%2Fimage%2Fimage%2Fs3%2F66991%2Ffull%2FForgiveness.jpg&hash=e1bd5930d8c0bff17c684943d9edcd490f05199d)
Title: Re: Osama is Dead
Post by: ShadowBrain on May 23, 2011, 09:48:34 AM
I was just reading the New Rules transcript where Bill Maher was making a similar point.