Fungi Forums
Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: davidcoolestguy on August 13, 2001, 11:07:39 AM
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Is it me, or is it that Mario (or Luigi) wins most of his battles with the final bosses on account of stupidity of the final bosses? I have a few questions which point out the stupidity of the final bosses. . . .I mean, these just prove the intelligence of the final bosses. . .
1. In SMB, If Bowser is only vulnerable to lava and fire, why does he have an axe to cut the bridge he's on? If he didn't have this, only Firey Mario would be able to stop him. Also, since Bowser is closer to the axe in every battle, why doesn't he just cut the bridge while Mario is on it?
2. (Note: This takes the case in stupidity)In SMB2, why does Wart have a Veggie-maker in his room if he hates vegetables??? He's invulnerable to anything else, so why does he have a Veggie-maker?
3. This one is kind of excuseable, but in SMB3, why does Bowser try to crush the brick floor if he can see that its breaking? I mean he's invulnerable to defeat any other way but falling to his doom. . .
4. In SMW, Bowser is invulnerable in his Clown Copter, right? Well, then why does he throw Mechakoopas at you if its the only thing he's vulnerable to at that point? After being hurt several times by them, he should have realized it was stupid to keep throwing them at you and stopped. . .
5. In SM64, Bowser is indestructable to anything but those bombs on the side. So why does he have them???? If he has to have those bombs, Bowser at least should have tried to throw Mario in to them, but he doesn't even try to do that. . .
Those were just a few cases of stupidity on the final bosses part, and there are plenty more that I could pick out in the Mario series. Well, I guess if the game designers didn't put those things in, the bosses would be unbeatable, but they at least could have put an excuse why the bosses put them in. . .well, anyway, I wanted to point that
out to the public. . .and don't get me wrong, I love the final bosses in the Mario series, its just that that was kind of bothering me, and I had to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening to my rambling. . .
This message was written by davidcoolestguy, master of anime and video games (actually he''s just a guy who''s got too much free time)
Founder of the Mario Game idea: Super Mario Bros 4: Sibling Rivalry. If you wish to see this game idea, e-mail me at david_coolest_guy@yahoo.com, and I''ll see if I can get it to you. I''m also planning on updating it, and possibly converting it into an RPG. . .
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Warts excuse in SMB2: That machine in not a Veggie maker, it is the Mega Dream Machine, the means by which he took over Sub-Con in the first place. The veggies were the fuel for it, but Mario and friends successfullt put the machine in reverse, so it produced veggies instead of consuming them. That's why it was in Wart's room.
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3. He's trying to crush Mario, but he's so heavy that he can't avoid breaking the bricks.
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Well. . .if that's really true about Wart's machine, then I guess its valid. Wart should have tried to stop the machine though. As for Bowser's excuse in SMB 3, he shouldn't have tried to crush Mario in the first place then. He's invulnerable, so he should have just tried to eliminate Mario with his fireballs. That would have eventually done the job, and there would be no way for Bowser to be defeated. He should have realized this when the floor first started caving in. Bowser's excuse for SMB3 is invalid, imo. Thanks for your responses!
This message was written by davidcoolestguy, master of anime and video games (actually he''s just a guy who''s got too much free time)
Founder of the Mario Game idea: Super Mario Bros 4: Sibling Rivalry. If you wish to see this game idea, e-mail me at david_coolest_guy@yahoo.com, and I''ll see if I can get it to you. I''m also planning on updating it, and possibly converting it into an RPG. . .
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In Paper Mario, When Bowser has Star Rod power, Why doesn't he trap the Star Spirits in cards agian before they do Star/Peach Beam? Another thing. Why didn't Bowser just kill Mario after he beat him up in the beggining. He just got rid of his plans by sending him out the window!
I''m the leader of the Koopa Bros.We''re hip and cool and uh... we like bacon
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Well, I came up with explanations for each Bowser battle that didn't already get an excuse. I found that Bowser's biggest fault isn't stupidity, but arrogance towards Mario. Bowser takes one look at Mario and just sees a slightly chunky, short, Italian plumber in his mid to late thirties and assumes that Mario is not a threat. Well, just read my explanations for Bowser's other goof-ups:
-Super Mario Bros. 1- The axe is there because Bowser intended to slice up Mario with it if the plumber got too close. Bowser had no idea our hero Mario would be agile enough to snatch the axe right out from under the beastly Koopa King.
-Super Mario World- Bowser thought a handful of MechaKoopas would be more than enough to kill off the intrepid Mario and Luigi. Just to be safe, Bowser decided to watch from his Koopa Klown Kopter, sure that an out of shape plumber wouldn't be able to kick the Mecha Koopas 30 feet in the air and on Bowser's scaly head.
-Super Mario 64- In SM64 it's a bit obvious that Bowser wanted to hurl Mario into the bombs, but again, the ravenous Koopa King judges Mario by his looks, and gets tossed around the arena by a portly plumber. Pretty amazing that a little Italian guy could toss around a gargantuan dragon-turtle. :)
-Paper Mario- Finally Bowser realized that inside the body of a short plumber lies the athleticism of an Olympic champion, and takes no chances, roasting Mario with starpower. King Koopa does assume again, however, thinking that Mario died from the starry blast.
See what happens when you assume? Little Italian guys come and beat the hell out of you! The more you know. . .
;)
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Have a nice end of the world.
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Hey those are pretty good! They make sence to!I'd have to agree with all of them. But you'd have to admit in Paper Mario he was still ignorant. I mean if he used the brains he has, he would have known better then not to send him out the window...of course, Mario would probably find a way to a Koopa Kopter and get down to save the Star Spirits.
I''m the leader of the Koopa Bros.We''re hip and cool and uh... we like bacon
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Yeah, sure they make sense. But maybe Nintendo put them there on purpose so you "Actually" have a way to defeat final bosses >=/
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Hmmm, billy chilly, I can see you put a lot of thought into your explanations. Good job, but some things don't make sense.
1. SMB1 - If that's true, then why didn't Bowser have the axe in his hands so he could slice Mario? Even if Mario was agile enough to avoid that, he wouldn't be able to use the axe against Bowser. I still don't get why Bowser didn't just cut the bridge when Mario was on it, which would be the most logical method of battle, and if Bowser is only vulnerable to lava and fire in that game, why is he on a bridge over lava in the first place. Bowser might have been arrogant about Mario, but it still doesn't make sense, and iof Bowser had been a little more intelligent, he wouldn't have been defeated (or at least it would have been much more challenging).
2. SMW - That may be true, but after being hit several times by the Mechakoopas (it takes 6 hits to defeat him), Bowser should have realized that Mario could toss the Mechakoopas extremely high, and stopped throwing them. Bowser would then be invincible, and Mario wouldn't be able to defeat him. That was stupidity on Bowser's part, and that lead to his defeat.
3. SM64 - I agree, but after being tossed into the bombs twice before (Bowser in the Dark World and Lava World), he should have realized the plumber's amazing strength, and gotten rid of the bombs for their final battle in the Sky World. Bowser would have then been invulnerable, and Mario's defeat would been inavoidable. Besides, when you actually battle Bowser, why doesn't he try to throw Mario into the bombs if that's true? He never performs any sort of toss attacks in any of the battles against Bowser in SM64.
Perhaps, Bowser's defeats were partly on account of Bowser's arrogance, but you have to admit that had made some stupid mistakes in his battles, and the sad thing is that Bowser doesn't really learn from his past mistakes. If Bowser had been a little more intelligent, Bowser would have easily defeated Mario and his allies, but because of his errors, he was never sucessful.
This message was written by davidcoolestguy, master of anime and video games (actually he''s just a guy who''s got too much free time)
Founder of the Mario Game idea: Super Mario Bros 4: Sibling Rivalry. If you wish to see this game idea, e-mail me at david_coolest_guy@yahoo.com, and I''ll see if I can get it to you. I''m also planning on updating it, and possibly converting it into an RPG. . .
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Now, I've heard a few people refer to the object in "Super Mario Bros." as an axe, but it looks to me just like the support peg holding that half of the bridge to the stone. I think it makes a lot more sense for Mario to collapse the bridge by removing a component than to chop the bridge up with an axe.
No, Bowser isn't acting too bright in "Super Mario Bros. 3." He had captured 7 kingdoms in Mushroom World, and he and his children had set up traps to deter Mario (or any other would-be hero) every step of the way. But Mario managed to get past every one of him and had tracked the Koopa King to his home in Dark Land. Bowser is a lizard at the end of his rope. He's watched his perfect plans crumble to dust and all his loyal minions fail him. He wasn't thinking straight. Trying to crush Mario was a crude act of despiration, and it did him in.
The Mechakoopas were supposed to KILL Mario, not aid him. Bowser didn't think they'd be used against him. He always underestimates his opponent.
The enemies have to make poor decisions for Mario to beat them. Some of these are blatant plot oversites, others can be explained and are consistent with the enemies' characters.
Lee "Mega 2" Sherman
Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopa
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In Paper Mario, if you fall that far down, it would kill a normal fat italian plumber. But since it's "Paper Mario" Mario just floated down and was perfectly safe, besides the 1st degree burns.
It's not a matter of optimism or pessimism, it's a matter of common sense! (half empty or half full?)
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In Paper Mario: If Bowser had kept just ONE star spirit in his own custody, he'd have been on easy street.
Think about it: He's invincable with the star rod. The only thing to counter the star rod is all seven spirits. If he had one or all of them, Mario would be helpless.
Also: Why didn't Bowser use the star rod more often? Cant he just wish for the star spirits to simply *dissapear*?
I guess he's not the brightest bulb, although it seems he is learning...
~Just another pisanno.
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Incedantally: I think Mechakoopas were simply too well built. They crushed instead of being destroyed entirely. If left untouched, they would spring back to life and once again persue Mario. If Bowser had made them; say, explode, then he would have been thinking. Plus there would have been some funky explosions too.
~Just another pisanno.
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Why doesn't Bowser just attack Mario when it's Marios turn in Paper Mario?
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Perhaps his mind is on other things.
You'd think if bowser just got a pair of scissors...
~Just another pisanno.
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Why does all Bowser Leave all those things there that could easily defeat him? I have a very simple answer to that...It's something the programmers use to make the boss battles more entertaining, creative, and individual than just a few quick stomps on the head or a fire ball (hammer) or two. Lol, but I must adimit i full-heartedly prefer the theories on this topic to that.
Kweeh! Forget Whark! Kweeh! Is better!
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You know what? I think what Bowser should do is take everything had ever had to attack Mario with in every game, and use them all! Mario would have a lower chance to win! Maybe in the very final Mario game, Bowser will do taht?
I''m the leader of the Koopa Bros.We''re hip and cool and uh... we like bacon
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Bowser would have a much easier time is he sabotaged Mario at every turn...
...you know, spread around rumors, torched bridges, laid traps, etc...
Basically a lot of little things as opposed to his usual pattern of large obstacles, but few of them.
I guess that's get irritating after a while.
~Just another pisanno.
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They're just video games. It's not real life :)
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I know their just video games and if the bosses didn't make errors they'd be invincible, but the programmers should have at least came up with an excuse like "Bowser's hands were stuck inside his shell so he can't pick up the axe (or support peg)" to cover up these obviously stupid mistakes, or at least try to make the errors less noticeable. Above all, however, the programmers should have made the final bosses learn their errors after performing them several times (such as Bowser [after being tossed into bombs twice before] not having bombs around the arena in the final battle in the sky in SM64, or Bowser not throwing the Mechakoopas after being hit by them several times in SMW), and perhaps making a different, less noticeable error (instead of having bombs in the Bowser in the Sky battle in SM64, Bowser should instead be tricked into charging off the arena, thus sapping a little life from him until his demise, for instance), thus adding a little more difficulty to the bosses, and showing that the bosses do learn from their mistakes and that they are intelligent. But instead, these mistakes are pointed out obviously, and the bosses appear to lack intelligence, thus the bosses lose on account of their stupidity. Well, thanks for your replies - it seems this topic has really expanded, and I hope to see more points of view on this controversial subject.
This message was written by davidcoolestguy, master of anime and video games (actually he''s just a guy who''s got too much free time)
Founder of the Mario Game idea: Super Mario Bros 4: Sibling Rivalry. If you wish to see this game idea, e-mail me at david_coolest_guy@yahoo.com, and I''ll see if I can get it to you. I''m also planning on updating it, and possibly converting it into an RPG. . .
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I like what they did with Tubba Blubba. THere was a good, invincable boss with no real weak points near him. His weakness was (obviously) his heart in the well.
I liked this becasue it didn't become obvious until Yakkey spilled the beans. If more games had this kind of continuity, they'd make a lot more sense. But then we'd have nothing to complain about, so nevermind ;).
The Goomba King was a good boss. No dumb inadeguacies there. You just beat the living hell out of him. End-of-story.
Perhaps 'Bowser's Axe' was in case of fire? He was standing on a wood bridge over lava, and this is obviously his weak point. So, logically, it would be good to have an axe in case the bridge started burning. I guess he wasn't counting on Mario being able to jump over him (he is 3x his height, after all [5 or 6x his normal-Mario height]).
~Just another pisanno.
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but he had a platform floating around over his head
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In response to SMB3 question. Bowser can be defeated in other ways or atleast in the Super Mario All-Stars version. Bowser can be defeated in 3 hits with the Hammer Bros. suit and I think you can also kill him with the Tanooki suit by turning a statue and falling on him.
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You're right about the Hammer Bros. suit being able to kill Bowser (I'm not sure about the Tanooki Suit, but you're probably right about that too), but in order to have those suits in the final battle, you cannot take any hits throughout the whole castle or else you'll lose your suit, which would make the game much harder. In any case, if Bowser didn't crush the floor in SMB3, only Hammer (or Tanooki) Mario would be able to stop him, and since its difficult to beat the whole castle without taking any damage, it would be very difficult to beat Bowser and Bowser would have a much greater advantage against his mortal foe, but instead he stupidly crushes the floor when he sees that its caving in, thus falling to his demise.
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You're right about it being hard, I got to Bowser's castle with 3 Hammer Bros. suits left. If I lost my suit, I'd lose a life and try again. On my last suit remaining, I finally got to Bowser. My older brother watched with amazement as I plowed through the castle on my turn without taking damage. (Keep in mind that I'm 17 and have been playing Mario games my whole life.)Anyway, we wondered if it would be possible to harm Bowser in any other way than him killing himself. So I hit him with a hammer and my bro said give up, nothing happened and I said "Wait, I think I heard a sound when I hit him." So I threw two more hammers right before losing my suit and he died.
Getting to Bowser was much easier with the Tanooki suit because you could destroy almost anything that got in your way by falling on it as a statue. Alas, I only had one left and lost it right at Bowser cause I didn't jump high enough. I guess I'll find out if that works the next time my bro and I play through the whole game.
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I've got another example:
In Yoshi's You-Know-What (and if you don't, then consider yourself lucky!), why doesn't Bowser try to steal or deactivate Mario's Super Scope? I mean after several hits he'd better realize how dangerous it is and should try to prevent Mario from using it. If he stole it then he could even shoot Mario with it and be unbeatable!
I know, I'm being nitpicky, but that's what everyone has been so far!
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Bowser has had his faults in the past... So why doesn't he try to make up for them? Bowser is not that dumb... If he was, then how would you explain his clever ways of setting up all of the dangerous traps in his caslte(s)? Bowser is actually a genius with very low -- to no common sense. If Bowser did try to stop Mario by tossing all of his most dangerous deveces at him, then Mario would surely die, and there would be no more Mario games!
So the point of this whole lecture is: Bowser is a comeplete fool when it comes to killing Mario!
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Bowser's lacks street smarts, otherwise he would realize that to take over the mushroom kingdom, you must kill the royal family, not kidnap the princess and try to fall in love with her.
It's not a matter of optimism or pessimism, it's a matter of common sense! (half empty or half full?)