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Video Games => Mario Chat => Topic started by: Hope(N Forever) on October 19, 2004, 10:10:28 AM

Title: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Hope(N Forever) on October 19, 2004, 10:10:28 AM

Way back in 1985, Nintendo finally released in the United States the Nintendo Entertainment System, with its flag title being Super Mario Bro.s, the sequel to the successful arcade game - Mario Bro.s - which was released a few years before.

As we all know, the object of the game is to travel through monster-infested worlds of a kingdom called the Mushroom Kingdom, and try to defeat in the end a giant turtle called Bowser, and rescue the princess of this kingdom called Princess Toadstool.

In order to advance in this game, we need to perform an action called 'Jump', and we need to press the 'B Button' on the Nintendo Entertainment System's [official] D-pad controller in order to actually perform it. Any other action necessary, in this case, shooting out Fire Balls after gaining a Fire Flower, we need to press the 'A Button'.



Nintendo then releases more of Super Mario's adventures as games, and although we could perform more actions in later games, the basics stayed the same, with the same buttons: 'B' is for jumping and other motion performances, while 'A' worked with extra performances.



However, it was not until 1996-1997 when the Nintendo 64 has finally been released with its flag title being Super Mario 64 that I received a somewhat MAJOR surprise! I need to press the 'B Button' to perform a non-motional action, while I had to press the 'A Button' to jump and perform other motional performances!?



What the heck has happened here!?



As other Super Mario games have been released after that, I realised that it was the very same story with all of them!!



At first, I thought, It must be a Nintendo 64 thing?

But then came the GameBoy Advance, and later came the GameCube.



What the heck!? Mario still jumps when pressing the 'A Button'!?



I've checked Nintendo's other game series, and none of them received this button change like the Super Mario series had!!



I know the button change had happened long ago, and we all got used to the idea, technically speaking.

But still to this day I wonder why had Nintendo broke the tradition of jumping with the 'B Button', and swapped it with the 'A Button'...



So let's discuss:

Why did Nintendo change the jumping 'B' to 'A' and vice-versa in our Super Mario games!?



*************

By the way, although you can jump with the 'B Button' in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, that does not count. Come on! You are controlling two different characters at the same time, there should be another button to use after 'A'!!

I am a pure Super Mario lover!!

...and in no point in the future will he ever be abandonded by me!

I will even drawn the best Super Mario comics ever to exist!!

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: MEGAߥTE on October 19, 2004, 11:23:52 AM

Umm what are you talking about?  A has always been jump and B the other action button...  A has always been to the right of B.  The only exception is the SNES/NDS configuration, where X&Y took on the B role and A&B took on the A role (but it's still the left side vs right side), but often this was configurable.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Suffix on October 19, 2004, 05:02:01 PM

 Well, I guess that sums it up. Was this comment worthless, or what?

 - Ian "Suffix"

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Red Paratroopa on October 19, 2004, 07:18:35 PM

It still bothers me that Hope says Mario Bro.s" instead of "Mario Bros."

"I''m a stupid fatty who swings his arms from side to side and pushes a button to receive bacon. As time slows and reality bends, the universe is permeated with the odor of Shawne Vinson. Does that make me a nut?"- DotheLizardkoopaTEMChupVinsonluigi

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Chupperson Weird on October 19, 2004, 07:41:09 PM

Me too.

The fast pace riding on a horse bets a slow boat anyday.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Lizard Dude on October 19, 2004, 08:00:35 PM

Hope(N Forever): Atomic Planet employee?

“I’m a stupid fatty and I love to play with my Easy Bake oven.”

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 08:04:48 PM

I don't think the N64, GBA, or GCN support the original button lay out of the classic NES and SNES games at all.

Having to use a shoulder button to spin jump in SMW was wacked.  Then you could scroll with the left shoulder button.

I have all the NES games in Animal Crossing, but don't play them much because of the button configuration.  The more SNES style HORI controller helps, but it's not perfect.

In 2D Mario games I prefer the NES thumb roll or SNES thumb roll/bend when performing a running jump.

I bought the Mega Man collection for the Cube, but don't play it much because of the button configuration.

Why don't more games allow customization of the buttons?

The DS has the SNES diamond button configuratoin!!! Wow!  Why didn't they do that sooner.  SMW would have been perfect for the DS, but I don't expect them to make many more remakes.  Although I would like an Allstars card for the DS, the NES Super Mario Bros. will hopefully live up the the expectations I have based on the NES and SNES 2D Mario games.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Markio on October 19, 2004, 08:33:09 PM

Today I went to the mall with my mom and there was one of those portabl carts they have around WestField shopping centers, and the cart was titled "Virtual World".  They had controllers much like N64 controllers, along with other controller things like a tennis racket and shotgun.  The lady explained that the controllers had at least a hundred games(I forgot how many, but they had more than a hundred t least), including Super Mario Bros, Duck Hunt, Galaga, Tetris, Pac Man, etc.  Has anyone heard of these?  I also saw some of the boxes said "Power Play" on them.

Most good judgement comes from experience.  Most experience comes from bad judgement.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 08:39:26 PM

Those are illegal systems from China.  They are the reason Nintendo now has the iQue in China.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Chupperson Weird on October 19, 2004, 08:40:25 PM

Yeah. Someone sells them in a mall here under the name "Atari World." I'm pretty sure they're illegal. Or something. Bootleg.

The fast pace riding on a horse bets a slow boat anyday.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 09:14:22 PM

Points at C.W.'s sig.  Haaa Hah Ha!  Wait.  That's not...  You're not making fun are you?

I just noticed that I had said, "bets" instead of beats.  Oh my, that is funny.

Edited by - Luigison on 10/19/2004 8:38:24 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: MEGAߥTE on October 19, 2004, 09:38:57 PM

>I don't think the N64, GBA, or GCN support the original button lay out of the classic NES and SNES games at all.


How do the N64, GBA, and GCN not support the original button layout of NES games?  There are only two buttons!  And they're basically in the same place!  SNES is correct, but not NES...

Edited by - MEGAߥTE on 10/19/2004 8:39:30 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 10:04:28 PM

@ MEGAߥTE

The NES may have had only two buttons, but their size, position, and shape is different from the buttons on the N64, GBA, and GCN.  After playing Mario games on the NES and SNES for nearly two decades and picking up a GBA for the first time last year, I was deeply disappointed with its buttons.  Notice the size of the NES buttons (vs. the GBA) and their concave shape.

The NES controller was perfect for holding down on the B button to run and simply rolling your thumb (without releasing B) to tap the A button and jump.  On the SNES this roll technique was slightly more difficult so I held down the run button with the tip on my thumb and tap the jump button with the middle of the same thumb without moving its general position.

I like the A, B, X, and Y button arrangement on the SNES best, but like the feel of the GCN controller.  The use of an analog stick my have made run the button obsolete, but I still prefer it in 2D games

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 10:14:20 PM

Edited by - Luigison on 10/19/2004 9:22:53 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: MEGAߥTE on October 19, 2004, 10:20:56 PM

I submit that your thumb is deformed.

Seriously, I agree that I liked the feel of the NES/SNES buttons, but you said layout.  The buttons are so close and small that it matters very little what angle they are at, you can easily hold them both down through rolling or whatever.  I always play games with B held down.

I also wish they released the prototype GC controller design instead of what we got... moving the Z button down as another jellybean might have been good too.

Edited by - MEGAߥTE on 10/19/2004 9:32:44 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Deezer on October 19, 2004, 10:36:02 PM

Holding Y and using B to jump with The SNES controller seemed like the most natural thing in the world to me; the angle of Y to B and X to A is the same angle that my thumb is as it grabs the controller, after all. The GBA seemed weird at first because you sort of have to move your thumb up to hit A if you're holding B, but eventually my wrist adapted. In conclusion, I prefer the GC controller prototype even though the button letters were Photoshopped.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Chupperson Weird on October 19, 2004, 10:38:25 PM

Really, the A and B have always been in the same relative position, that is to say B has always been the one you press with the further/inner part of your thumb, regardless of angle, unless you're doing B/Y, but B is still in the same place relative to A.

For NES, GBA, and GCN, I roll my thumb to the left slightly. This is also true for SNES if I'm actually using A and B rather than B and Y. For N64 (and SNES if using B and Y), I simply bend my thumb a bit. It's really pretty much the same motion.

The fast pace riding on a horse bets a slow boat anyday.

Edited by - Chupperson Weird on 10/19/2004 9:42:44 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 10:49:46 PM

They may all be very similiar motions, but when you get familiar with something over 20 years, it's hard to change.

For those who don't know the HORI controller:

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Luigison on October 19, 2004, 10:53:44 PM

Is this the prototype you guys are talking about?

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Lizard Dude on October 20, 2004, 12:05:09 AM

I thought they were talking about your earlier pic, where the B button is a jellybean.

“I’m a stupid fatty and I love to play with my Easy Bake oven.”

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Deezer on October 20, 2004, 12:36:45 AM

LD is correct. Move the Z button like MB said, and maybe flatten out the half-spherical Start button, and you get the perfect GC controller (for most games).

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Hope(N Forever) on October 20, 2004, 09:40:36 AM

Hey!
You people have been talking about the button positions and some other stuff, and quite missing my point!

I just simply said that Nintendo, starting from the Nintendo 64, had broken the tradition of 'B' - Jump & 'A' - Action by switching roles to 'B' - Action & 'A' - Jump in the Super Mario games!
Don't say 'configuration'!! I'm talking about the buttons by default!
Besides, how many Super Mario games out there could their button roles be configured?
Unless it must be a ROM...

Anyway, what I meant is discuss the part why Nintendo did the switching of the button roles in Super Mario games!

Look! Changing the positions of the buttons is not an explaination because you can put the buttons on the controller which ever way you want, but you could still label the button, that was programmed to make Mario jump, as 'B'!

I am a pure Super Mario lover!!
...and in no point in the future will he ever be abandonded by me!
I will even drawn the best Super Mario comics ever to exist!!

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: MEGAߥTE on October 20, 2004, 11:14:11 AM

Maybe because your original premise IS COMPLETELY WRONG like I said in my first post.   A has always been jump!

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Vidgmchtr on October 20, 2004, 05:20:33 PM

Well, at least it's better than using a Keyboard for SNES roms.

I can't any confortable position for the keys. I've tried assgning them to the regular keys, I've tried putting them in the original Diamond position, and it still doesn't feel right.

...Oh, I don't use roms much anymore now, so...

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Koopaslaya on October 20, 2004, 07:30:19 PM

I love how no research is done before anyone posts anything here.

Push Button...
Receive Bacon! ®

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Vidgmchtr on October 20, 2004, 09:12:16 PM

Heh, I didn't see the second page for this. I thought it ended at Deezer's post talking about the SNES controller's feel.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Red Paratroopa on October 21, 2004, 04:07:01 PM

I propose that the world is flat. Those who disagreee, I shall push off the edge.

"I''m a stupid fatty who swings his arms from side to side and pushes a button to receive bacon. As time slows and reality bends, the universe is permeated with the odor of Shawne Vinson. Does that make me a nut?"- DotheLizardkoopaTEMChupVinsonluigi

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: on October 23, 2004, 11:08:04 AM

Very funny Red Paratroopa.
Hope(N forever), Megabyte is right, A has always been jump unless you either had a different controller or a different button configuration

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Hope(N Forever) on October 24, 2004, 05:51:14 PM

Like I said, there is hardly any Super Mario game with any button configuration...

Of course, it might be the case I have the PAL version of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System...

I am a pure Super Mario lover!!
...and in no point in the future will he ever be abandonded by me!
I will even drawn the best Super Mario comics ever to exist!!

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: MEGAߥTE on October 24, 2004, 06:00:16 PM

Umm hello?
"A" HAS ALWAYS BEEN JUMP.
with the slight exception of SMW where B was jump and A was spin-jump and SMW2, but that was more of a SNES controller lettering issue rather than positional.  In all countries.  Every day of the week.  Since 1983.

Edited by - MEGAߥTE on 10/24/2004 5:00:56 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Hope(N Forever) on October 24, 2004, 07:09:30 PM

I got around to reading the Super Mario Bro.s Instruction Manual...



[embarassed -_-;]



To tell you the truth, my first Nintendo console was the Super Nintendo Entertainment System...

I never owned and hardly played with the 8-bit Nintendo Entertainment System...

(I recently played Super Mario World because I nostalgiac that day, hence this thread...)



I havn't played a classical GameBoy Super Mario game in a while either...



I don't think you want a stubborn member around...

I'm at your mercy...



BAN ME!!



Wait a sec! Did I say, 'Ban me?'



I meant, 'suspend' me!

Yeah! That's right...

I am a pure Super Mario lover!!

...and in no point in the future will he ever be abandonded by me!

I will even drawn the best Super Mario comics ever to exist!!

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Chupperson Weird on October 24, 2004, 08:00:18 PM

While we're at it... It's "Bros.", not "Bro.s"!

You're abbreviating "brothers" here, not abbreviating "brother" and adding an s on the end.

The fast pace riding on a horse bets a slow boat anyday.

Edited by - Chupperson Weird on 10/24/2004 7:05:34 PM

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Hope(N Forever) on October 25, 2004, 10:30:15 AM

By the way, I think I was playing the games in Super Mario All-Stars just a bit too often...

(All jumps are with 'B'... ^_^;)



Another thing - I know 'brothers' should be abbreviated like this ---] 'Bros.'

That is my style in writing that makes me put the point between the 'o' and the 's'...

Therefore, I will always go 'Bro.s' regarless of what people tell me...



Yes, I'm stubborn at times...

But that is me...



What? Do you want me to go 'Super Mario Bro.s [sic]' all the time!?



However, I only write 'Bros.' correctly whenever I'm writing some document for an academic or a publishing reason...

Well? Do you think I'm that bad in my English? It might be my second language, but I know it very well!

I am a pure Super Mario lover!!

...and in no point in the future will he ever be abandonded by me!

I will even drawn the best Super Mario comics ever to exist!!

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: Chupperson Weird on October 25, 2004, 07:38:07 PM

It's just the fact that the title is "Bros." on every SMB game. Ever. They don't spell it "brothers," they spell it "bros."

(As a side note, A is also jump in SMAS.)

The fast pace riding on a horse bets a slow boat anyday.

Title: Re: Nintendo Why?: B to A; A to B
Post by: MEGAߥTE on October 25, 2004, 08:36:00 PM

And the other fact that English and any other language I know that abbreviates with a period, abbreviates the whole word, not the singular form with an s tacked on.