Homosexuality and Same-Sex Marriage

[Turtlekid1]

An example of how their moral/spiritual health is destroyed?  This thread is a perfect example.  I have seen at least one person who claims to be a Christian say that homosexuality should be tolerated in direct contrast to what the Bible says.  I have seen many others who say it's tolerable, probably either because their moral and spiritual health is already suffering, or because they've been broken into a state of submission by the propaganda of pop-culture/liberal media, and just don't care anymore.

[Chupperson Weird]

Or they came at it from an entirely different angle without being "broken into submission" at all.

[Fifth]

Mm, nothing says moral decay quite like tolerance.

[missingno]

Homosexuality is not wrong, many of my friends are gay and bisexual. Even I myself am bisexual. I'm sure that'll make some people say "EW GTFO", but I don't see why someone would do that.

[Turtlekid1]

Mm, nothing says moral decay quite like tolerance.

While I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm, it's true in this case.

Homosexuality is not wrong, many of my friends are gay and bisexual. Even I myself am bisexual. I'm sure that'll make some people say "EW GTFO", but I don't see why someone would do that.

So because you and your friends practice homosexuality/bisexuality, that makes it okay?

[Chupperson Weird]

In their book, it would seem so.

[Turtlekid1]

Relativism, another [unwanted] element detrimental to this country's morality.

[CrossEyed7]

You can't force your moral code on others (which in practice tends to frown on anyone saying anything bad about anyone), unless it's the moral code that prohibits forcing moral codes on others. That one should be forced on everyone.

It comes back, as it seems to so often on this board, to the thing I wrote about lenses. Everyone has their own lens. Some people try to get others to use their lens instead. Just because you don't have a deity telling you your lens is good doesn't mean you're any different from the others that try to convince others to use their lens.

It'd be like if Bob Barr said "Hey, can't we just get past all this partisan politics and just support the vastly superior Libertarian Party?" It's still a party. Bob Barr can certainly campaign for his party, but he shouldn't act like he's above the party thing.

[Turtlekid1]

You can't force your moral code on others (which in practice tends to frown on anyone saying anything bad about anyone), unless it's the moral code that prohibits forcing moral codes on others. That one should be forced on everyone.

I'm having a hard time deciding if that was sarcasm.

[CrossEyed7]

It was.

[ShadowBrain]

I have seen at least one person who claims to be a Christian say that homosexuality should be tolerated in direct contrast to what the Bible says.  I have seen many others who say it's tolerable, probably either because their moral and spiritual health is already suffering, or because they've been broken into a state of submission by the propaganda of pop-culture/liberal media, and just don't care anymore.

[Glorb]

I hate to say this, but...
Image/Post of the Year?

But on a more serious note:

Turtlekid, you keep saying that tolerance of other people's lifestyles the evil liberal media is causing peoples' souls to rot and such and such and such, but you never really explain how. How is is genuinely bad to practice/tolerate homosexuality? In what way does it erode people's values? And exactly how would a gay person be better off living a lifestyle that doesn't suit them at all, just to conform to your personal beliefs?

[BP]

This is really the last thing I'm going to say here. Promise.

You might have misinterpreted what I said before. It is absolutely not the government's job to protect us from Satan. It's their job to protect us from each other. Nothing else.

[Markio]

I think this is an issue that is life vs. soul.  To live a lifetime of happiness, or to sacrifice one's happiness for the sake of eternal happiness after life.  This I think is the Christian viewpoint towards Homosexuality.  I think we should remember that Turtlekid's opinions, while different, merely represent the Church's point of view.  The idea is that if homosexuals don't "practice sexual deviancy", they'll be spared eternal [darn]ation.  Ultimately Christians aren't against the idea of people being happy--just not in this life, to be very blunt.

In terms of marriage, be a person tolerant of homosexuality or not, marriage is considered a religious sacrament, and therefore it would not make sense for an anti-homosexual religion to allow such marriage within its sacrament.  I stand by what I said earlier, that gay civil unions would allow homosexuals the same legal rights as married couples, while allowing them to live together without imposing their own beliefs/orientation onto the religious sacrament.  Imposing their lifestyle on a religious sacrament like marriage would be like Christianity imposing their beliefs on homosexuals.  The real problem is that these overlap when it comes to marriage, which is both religious and something many people of all orientations want.

I also just want to add that whether or not homosexuality is an inclination or genetic is inconclusive.  Personally I think it is genetic, because unless I accidentally conditioned myself to be homosexual, I've never actually had to try to like people of my own gender in that way.  I just do, whether I want to or not.  However, as a Christian, who was brought up Christian, all I can look forward to in life is celibacy and denial to my family and friends.  You guys are the only people who know I'm gay.  I've said "bi" because I've refused to admit to myself what I am.  I've tried liking girls sexually, and I physically cannot.  I don't claim to represent the voice of a Christian or a homosexual, because in either case there is some condition brought about by the other.  But honestly, we should stop disrespecting each other's opinions and try to reach some middle ground.  I thought the idea of this thread was to express one's own opinions.  Of course we won't all agree, but we must acknowledge and potentially respect the values and lifestyles of others, regardless of orientation or religion.  While I think Turtlekid should accept the fact that there are non-Christian, sexually active homosexuals in the world, I think we should accept the fact that there are Christians too.

I stand by what I said.  Marriage is religious, but gay people should be able to share the legal benefits of legal straight couples.  Legally.  Not religiously.  Ceremonies don't have to be religious to include love.

[Chupperson Weird]

I'd like to add that marriage existed as a legal institution before Christianity came about, at least in the Roman empire, although of course the Jews and lots of other people had it in their religions.
And that Markio is probably the wisest person on these boards. But I've said that before.