Abortion

[CrossEyed7]

While I'd rather just see it illegal everywhere, like regular murder, leaving it up to the states would also be good. It would at least open it up for meaningful debate again (Plenty of people are debating it now, but as long as Roe v. Wade is on the books, it can't really be changed). Leaving it up to the states wouldn't cause any major logistical problems, like gay marriage is. Just as long as parental consent is required everywhere. I mean, seriously, you can't give a kid Pepto-Bismol without getting a signed form from their parents, but you can drive them to another state and get them an abortion without even telling them? (IMO, one of the dumbest parts of the Roe v. Wade decision is the idea that first trimester abortions are so safe that states shouldn't regulate them at all. I'm sure it is safe [to the mother] when done properly, but doesn't the state still have a responsibility to make sure the person doing it is an actual doctor? Or is it just so safe that no one could possibly screw it up?)

[Luigalaxy]

I'm not really so much pro-life, as I am just anti-choice.

I'm just against abortion. I couldn't care less about the poor, innoent, little fetus and all that nonesuch. I just think that having abortion commercially available to everyone is quite meaningless. I'm really against the whole thing because I believe it's irresponsible and rewards stupidity. With over 9000 methods of contraception, the chance of an accidental impregnation is so unlikely, that if it actually happens, it's a case of 'sucks for you' But to just have unprotected sex for whatever reason, be it ignorance, drunkedness, or whatever, and then just make it all disappear? You gotta be kidding me. If you're gonna do it, do it right, and accept responsibility for your actions.

I actually have to agree with Forest Guy on being Anti-Choice. But I'm not going to argue because I barely know what Abortion is, except for the fact that your killing a fetus. However, I also have to agree with Pt_Peach with aborting a child when the woman did not have safe-sex is just selfish.

[Insane Steve]

Look at it this way: if you were forced to kill one person out of a group of three, who would you kill? A newborn baby, a 10 year old boy who's just starting to understand the world around him, or a 30 year old mother supporting her two kids? If you have any sense of moral well being, you'd kill the baby. The baby is thoughtless, mindless, it can't understand it's being killed, and it isn't missing much.

I don't know how I missed this comment.

This is correct, and this question is trivially easy. Babies are in and of themselves useless, and the death of the baby has less of an impact on the society aroud it than the death of either of the other two.

I'll offer this proposition to anyone in this thread. If you can explain to a 14 year old girl who was raped and is now 1 month pregnant why she should be forced to have an unwanted baby, I'll explain to her unborn child why it'd be better that it be aborted then society have to front the costs (monetary and otherwise) of the child being born. Deal?

[NintendoExpert89]

Babies are in and of themselves useless, and the death of the baby has less of an impact on the society [around] it than the death of either of the other two.

But that falls back to whether or not it's all right to eliminate the mentally and physically handicapped. They don't contribute much to society, and it's nothing but vast costs for support, so should they be killed?

[Insane Steve]

If it means that a ten year old boy with many friends and is just starting to build a social famework, or a 30 year old mother for which 2 lives -directly- are effected and would deteriorate substantially if she dies wouldn't die, then yes.

That said, most preferable is not killing any of them. But then we'd have a non-question.

[Turtlekid1]

I'll offer this proposition to anyone in this thread. If you can explain to a 14 year old girl who was raped and is now 1 month pregnant why she should be forced to have an unwanted baby, I'll explain to her unborn child why it'd be better that it be aborted then society have to front the costs (monetary and otherwise) of the child being born. Deal?

"Because, [insert name of 14-year-old pregnant girl here], there are things in this world more important than your being comfortable or uncomfortable for 9 months out of your life.  If you don't want the baby, let a married couple who does want a child adopt it."

Hey, maybe we should murder hobos, too, because they're obviously not contributing to society.

And yes, I'm a level 85 Christian, so don't worry about bringing religious philosophy in here.

If you claim to be a Christian, but are advocating abortion, maybe you do need some "religious philosophy."

[Glorb]

"Because, [insert name of 14-year-old pregnant girl here], there are things in this world more important than your being comfortable or uncomfortable for 9 months out of your life.  If you don't want the baby, let a married couple who does want a child adopt it."

Really now. It's more than just being comfortable/uncomfortable. Think about what being pregnant at that age, and actually going through childbirth, can do to your psyche. Here's a hint: it ain't beneficial.

Would you really go up to a 14-year-old pregnant girl and basically say "That's what you get for being a girl" right to her face?

[Turtlekid1]

Actually, I'd go up to her and say, "that's what you get for walking down that dark alley."

If she was raped (and Insane Steve specified that she was), I'm pretty sure her psyche could handle having a baby.
But that's irrelevant, because her psyche is no more important than the life of her unborn child.

[Insane Steve]

Actually, I'd go up to her and say, "that's what you get for walking down that dark alley."

Because, you know, all women who get raped were ASKING FOR IT by walking down a dark alley at night alone in provacative clothing. And a pregnant 14 year old is going to reflect about what happened to her maturely and without any emotional scarring at all. Let's say that she can't face her parents because they're scary "wait until marriage" types and she kills herself instead of confronting them about the kid. Oops. But hey, at least the unborn child is ok, right? ... wait, never mind.

Google the "Just World Phenomenon". Your posts are a perfect example of it.

And if -YOU- claim to be a Christian, and think that acting all "haughtier than thou" make you favorable in God's eyes, maybe -YOU- need to re-read the apparent source of your moral code juuuuuuuuust a bit better.

[BP]

because her psyche is no more important than the life of her unborn child.

And... why? Just life itself is more valuable than enjoying it at all?

[PaperLuigi]

Actually, I'd go up to her and say, "that's what you get for walking down that dark alley."

That isn't very Christian at all. A girl gets raped so you tell her "Yeah, that's what you get for going into an alley. Never mind the fact that you're 90 pounds and couldn't fight off a 275 pound male." Seriously man.

[ShadowBrain]

Just for the record... has anyone here changed their position on anything because of these arguments? Same goes for the War thread.

[Eclipsed Moon]

Nope, can't change position because poll won't let me change my vote.

[Glorb]

So, you can't change your...pole position?

Ahem.

Carry on.

[Forest Guy]

If you claim to be a Christian, but are advocating abortion, maybe you do need some "religious philosophy."

OH MY GOD HAVE YOU NOT PAID ANY ATTENTION AT ALL?! I am not advocating abortion, for Christ's sakes. (See? I capitalized Christ.) Don't you dare get into a holier than thou fight here with me. I'm a freakin Lay Assistant/Deacon in my Church. Come back and talk to me when you've given Communion to an entire community of people as well as your own Pastor.