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Author Topic: Is Shigeru Miyamoto Good for Nintendo?  (Read 13728 times)

« on: April 02, 2016, 08:18:09 AM »
If he was, is he good currently?

Many hated him for stagnating Super Mario Bros. and ruining Paper Mario.

Though, from what I have read from these blogs, there was more to him that many don't(or didn't) know... and, arguably, worse.

Sean Malstrom Topics
 https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/celebration-of-miyamotos-retirement-day-one/
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/celebration-of-miyamotos-retirement-day-two/
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/celebration-of-miyamotos-retirement-day-three/
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/celebration-of-miyamotos-retirement-day-four/
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/grassroots-gaming/
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/celebration-of-miyamotos-retirement-day-six/
https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/eurogamer-suggests-miyamoto-might-be-part-of-the-problem-hardcore-gamers-go-nuts/

Heru Sankofa of Conflicting Views
https://conflictingviews.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/just-fire-miyamoto-nintendo/
https://conflictingviews.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/miyamotos-obsession-with-eliminating-story/

I know some of you hate these blogs. But they really have open my eyes.

It's why I see little love or care for Mario, Nintendo' BIGGEST Franchise! Also, why the Olde Nintendo 3DS was trash(limited battery, bulky design, one control nub, pointless 3D view, etc) And Star Fox became uncool.

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2016, 05:23:29 PM »
At the current time I'm not too interested in the main topic but
Quote
pointless 3D view
Was I really the only one who used it on the original? As far as I know none of the people at my school do.
read jitsu wa watashi wa

« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2016, 10:56:40 PM »
I have used 3D on max since day one.

Whenever I happen to look at a 3DS in 2D it looks bizarre, like something is seriously wrong.

« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 04:49:21 AM »
I have used 3D on max since day one.

Whenever I happen to look at a 3DS in 2D it looks bizarre, like something is seriously wrong.
You must have some good eyes.

They say 3D Viewing can strain the eyes.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 05:44:56 AM »
I tend not to use it because trying to stay at the right angle to see it is distracting, it sucks on the battery harder than a robotic....vampire, and framerate drops attract gremlins and gnomes
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 10:34:15 AM »
You must have some good eyes.

They say 3D Viewing can strain the eyes.
Crap! I've been viewing things in 3D since I was born!

« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 10:47:29 AM »
I've always wondered if my other senses were dulling my sensory impulses by exposing myself to touching sensations and aromatic experiences.
I'm a horrible person.

« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 02:29:12 PM »
I'm really not sure how much Miyamoto does anymore. It seems like he's mostly put other people in charge of the key franchises and he occasionally offers advice/issues mandates. His criticism of the early version of Splatoon spurred the team to go farther with the idea and it birthed a new franchise. It's weird, too, that people latch onto the Sticker Star mandate as their default anti-Miyamoto argument, as if it was the worst thing he ever did. It's almost as if they've forgotten the existance of Wii Music.
Kweeh! Kweeh! Yes, Kweeh forever!

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 03:56:33 PM »
Crap! I've been viewing things in 3D since I was born!
We're gonna be blind!
read jitsu wa watashi wa

« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 02:49:33 PM »
the Olde Nintendo 3DS was trash(limited battery, bulky design, one control nub, pointless 3D view, etc)

Too much Malstrom rots your brain.
Relics.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2016, 02:45:05 AM »
The fact of the matter is that the only thing that matters when you get a game device is whether or not it can play good games that you want to play.

I didn't look up any numbers but I'm quite sure the 3DS has a bigger library than any other games-dedicated machine currently on the market. Because it has its own, the DS, and everything on 3DS Virtual Console. It may be beaten by the Wii U if the Wii simply had that much shovelware, but it doesn't matter for my point, which is the 3DS can play a [dukar] ton of good games.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2016, 12:33:05 AM »
The thing I don't understand about all the people saying Nintendo is going downhill and become a stagnant cesspool--and hey, maybe they're right, maybe the era of yearly Mario Party was the pinnacle--is that none of them ever talk about what they've been playing lately instead of the crappy Nintendo games. By which I do not mean there's nothing else to play. There is! Other games exist. Other good games Nintendo didn't make, publish or get on their machines are just waiting for you to play them.

If you trust Nintendo to make games you'll like more than you trust yourself to do a little research and decide whether you'll like something unfamiliar, that's on you. It's a market competing for your money, you can't be a loser in that battle unless you commit to a side
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016, 12:08:15 PM »
It's a good thing some consumers buy things they want/like.
I'm a horrible person.

« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2016, 12:31:18 AM »
Any company can go through down times and make a comeback.

Everyone said the same thing about Disney in the 70s and 80s. They made some good films in that timespan, but it's not like they were innovating and turning out a Snow White or creating films on the same level as Cinderella or Bambi. Everyone knows Cinderella and Bambi today, but who can name at least four of the Disney animated features released between 1968-1988?

In fact, Disney was profiting a lot from re-releases of earlier movies. People still came out to see Snow White forty years after it came out (people would still come to see it eighty years later). Everyone appreciates a classic like Snow White, just like people appreciate well-done new stuff. Trouble is, the new stuff just wasn't living up to the Snow White standards set by some. That's not to say Disney wasn't releasing new stuff, but it wasn't as well-received as the old. This also extended into TV, where the New Mickey Mouse Club, despite being a good show, never gained the traction of the original 1950s show.

Nintendo is likely in the same position right now. They had their big hit with characters in the 80s, just like Disney did with Mickey, Donald, Goofy, and the other cartoon characters. They made it big with particular games in the 90s, with or without those characters, sort of like Disney did with Snow White and subsequent features.

Then, things got stale. Disney kept coming out with random films about talking animals. Nintendo kept coming out with new ways to rehash old games.

Disney had the "renaissance" starting in with Little Mermaid, then Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and Lion King. Those four films were huge winners in every respect and still are, becoming to Gen Xers and Millenials what Snow White was to the Greatest Generation. After another period of dud films, they hit it big with Tangled and Frozen this decade.

As you can see, things go in cycles. Nintendo will do the same as long as they keep up with the times. The humor, music style, and animation style of Little Mermaid is different from that of Snow White since it needs to be kept current and appeal to a new generation of viewers. The same is true if you compare those films with Frozen. Nintendo will have to do the same with games. You can't have Mario Party 18 where it plays just like Mario Party 1. You can't have New Super Mario Bros games that all look and feel the same. You can't have stupid and overused storylines.

At some point, you may even need to introduce a new character. Disney did this with the princesses. Everyone thought the sorority roster was complete until three new ones came for initiation in the past six years. This came, of course, after a decade of crappy sequels to the original movies. Look at the current Smash Brothers roster. Most of those characters fall into these categories: Nintendo icon, clone of Nintendo icon, supporting character unfamiliar to someone who hasn't played that franchise, or character from a long time ago that nobody really cares about because they haven't had a game in years. (No Earthbound games since 1995 and we still get their characters? That would be like Disney having Ratigan as a meet-and-greet character).

Trouble is, Nintendo is in the process of making crappy sequels. Everything feels like it's already been done before. To get to the original question, Miyamoto is still good for Nintendo if and only if he can get his creative genius back. Otherwise, you need to draft a new team, and you need to make it one on par with the one Disney used from 1989-1994 and from 2010-2013.

One final note: on the subject of Smash Bros and the other games with many characters, let's cut the rosters down. The Wii U Smash Bros has more characters than anyone would know what to do with, and Mario Kart 8 is the same way. 12 is a good number, 16 is a bit high but could work. Anything more than that is just chaos--it's like a Christmas card list where you have to remind yourself how you know those people.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2016, 01:48:44 AM »
Frozen was kind of okayish
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 10:21:21 AM »
Trouble is, Nintendo is in the process of making crappy sequels. Everything feels like it's already been done before.
No, they aren't. Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 are not the equivalent of Aladdin and the King of Thieves and Cinderella III: A Twist in Time. They are A-grade, S-rank, 10/10 quality efforts that rival/surpass the best the series have ever been.

I can understand if you crave more new IP but Nintendo ain't "making crappy sequels". Kirby, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, (upcoming) Zelda, they're all suuuper good right now.


P.S. Splatoon is Nintendo's Frozen

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2016, 05:10:40 PM »
No Earthbound games since 1995 and we still get their characters?


Huh, weird.
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2016, 10:34:49 AM »
No, they aren't. Super Mario 3D World and Mario Kart 8 are not the equivalent of Aladdin and the King of Thieves and Cinderella III: A Twist in Time. They are A-grade, S-rank, 10/10 quality efforts that rival/surpass the best the series have ever been.

I can understand if you crave more new IP but Nintendo ain't "making crappy sequels". Kirby, Yoshi, Fire Emblem, (upcoming) Zelda, they're all suuuper good right now.


P.S. Splatoon is Nintendo's Frozen
...are you serious?

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2016, 11:06:59 AM »
I can't say much about Splatoon as I haven't played it myself, but you better not be implying Mario 3D World, Mario Kart 8, Kirby Planet Robobot and Yoshi's Woolly World are anything less than fan-effing-tastic.

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2016, 03:30:48 PM »
Fire Emblem Fates came out in February and has one of the largest amount of total playtime and average playtime on my 3DS since my 2011 formatting.
I mean, New Super Mario Bros 2 and Yoshi's New Island were eh, but they were far from crappy, and those are the worst sequels from Nintendo I've seen in a while.
Literally the only series that has had an objectively bad sequel recently is Animal Crossing, but honestly that's Nintendo's worst series so I don't care.
read jitsu wa watashi wa

« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2016, 04:01:22 PM »
There's Paper Mario Color Splash, which would be a good sequel if Sticker Star was the only other Paper Mario game.

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2016, 08:58:18 PM »
Oh yeah,  I forgot about Sticker Star (I'm not counting Color Splash until it's released, even if it sucking is guaranteed).
read jitsu wa watashi wa

« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2016, 04:33:13 PM »
Splatoon is pretty solid. I've played it and it's definitely a good one.

I am aware of the Mother sequels, but wasn't counting them since none of them had a USA release--yet their characters continue to appear in USA games like Smash Brothers.

As for the other games...they may not be totally bad Disney sequel quality, but they're getting to be worn out and old. Wooly World is the one I haven't played yet of that list, but a friend told me it was good, even though it did remind him of a slightly updated Yoshi's Story.

Mario Kart 8 may be a decent game, but it just seems on par with a local news broadcast. They are trying to cram too much in and are killing the quality as a result. Seriously, there are like 30 racers in that game, and it's like the Christmas Card list where I don't even know half of them anymore. The number of carts is also ridiculous. The original appeal of Mario Kart was its simplicity, up through the GBA game. The same can be said for Smash.

Mario Maker and Splatoon are the new Nintendo to me. Everything else is in dire need of a makeover. Even the music is getting stale...I used to love Nintendo soundtracks, but I haven't heard a good one since Galaxy.

I am aware there is some new Pokemon game out there, but I could care less about Pokemon and have ignored it since day one. Not my kind of thing. Still, it's nice to see Nintendo in the spotlight as a result of that.

« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2016, 05:02:50 PM »
Honestly, I would like to see almost all of Nintendo to get a "Reboot."

A fresh, new, start(or restart) on almost all their IP's. Just with the right people, of course.

« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2016, 05:48:13 PM »
What do you mean by that? Because they already "Reboot" constantly:

Super Mario 64 was a reboot
New Super Mario Bros. was a reboot
Super Mario 3D Land was a reboot
Almost every Zelda is a sort of reboot, with Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild being HUGE reboots
Star Fox 64 was a reboot
Star Fox Zero was a reboot
Metroid Prime was a reboot
The Paper Mario series has at least repeatedly changed styles, if not totally rebooted
Donkey Kong '94 was a reboot
Donkey Kong Country was a reboot
Kid Icarus Uprising was a reboot

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2016, 07:04:45 PM »
Yeah, the term gets pretty broadly thrown around these days. At this point, I feel like it just means "not explicitly a sequel, or at least doesn't have a number in the title." Personally, I feel like a new installment in a series has to dramatically retcon a character or at least have significant tonal and stylistic differences to be a "reboot."
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2016, 07:45:40 PM »
What do you mean by that? Because they already "Reboot" constantly:

Super Mario 64 was a reboot
New Super Mario Bros. was a reboot
Super Mario 3D Land was a reboot
Almost every Zelda is a sort of reboot, with Ocarina of Time and Breath of the Wild being HUGE reboots
Star Fox 64 was a reboot
Star Fox Zero was a reboot
Metroid Prime was a reboot
The Paper Mario series has at least repeatedly changed styles, if not totally rebooted
Donkey Kong '94 was a reboot
Donkey Kong Country was a reboot
Kid Icarus Uprising was a reboot

Go back to the very beginning and start over(mostly in terms of content).

That, or just pull a Neo Mortal Kombat.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2016, 02:11:03 AM »
Lizard Dude is talking about the gameplay

In case that wasn't obvious

I can't believe they rebooted Dead Rising, every game in the DR2 series was so good, gaaaaa
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2016, 03:16:44 PM »
Super Mario 64 wasn't a reboot in terms of gameplay. The only thing that it brought back were some classic tunes and enemies (plus the basic plot).

StarFox 64, I'll give you that one, total reboot albeit with better graphics and sound. (I like 64 better though personally).

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2016, 04:59:53 PM »
Super Mario 64 wasn't a reboot in terms of gameplay.

??????????????

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2016, 05:15:29 PM »
Super Mario 64 wasn't a reboot in terms of gameplay. The only thing that it brought back were some classic tunes and enemies (plus the basic plot).

StarFox 64, I'll give you that one, total reboot albeit with better graphics and sound. (I like 64 better though personally).
I think there's a disconnect here on what "reboot" means, especially if you're going to qualify it as "in terms of gameplay".

Mario 64 plays completely differently from any Mario game that came before it. Reboot.
Star Fox 64 plays almost exactly the same as Star Fox 1. Not a reboot.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 05:18:29 PM by BriGuy92 »
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2016, 06:36:16 PM »
I considered both gameplay and plot reboots in my list.  (Star Fox, Star Fox 64, and Star Fox Zero are all versions of the same Lylat Wars)

I was not trying to define "reboot". Quite the opposite, I was just wondering what 4 Game Freak actually wanted, because Nintendo constantly resets both their series' plots and gameplay.

Does he want something drastic like Bomberman: Act Zero?

« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2016, 12:16:03 PM »
I considered both gameplay and plot reboots in my list.  (Star Fox, Star Fox 64, and Star Fox Zero are all versions of the same Lylat Wars)

I was not trying to define "reboot". Quite the opposite, I was just wondering what 4 Game Freak actually wanted, because Nintendo constantly resets both their series' plots and gameplay.

Does he want something drastic like Bomberman: Act Zero?
No, not to that level!

I just want them to go back to basics. Go back to what made series like Mario and Zelda popular in the first place.

Honestly, I liked the whole"Marios were Earthers from Brooklyn" story from NOA. Perhaps they could just use the original tale of how they first got into the Mushroom Kingdom and next. The story structure I would have taken would go like this.

SMB1/SMBLL > SMBUSA > SMB3 > SML1 > SML2 > SMW

This way, they could re-introduce us to the familiar characters and worlds in a much more proper way, as well as not overuse Bowser as much.

Let's also take Metroid. I want the gameplay and immersion to be as good as, at least, Super Metroid or Metroid Prime. As for Story Canon, its Structure could restart like this.

Metroid 1 > Metroid II > Metroid Prime

Because I kinda had some questions regarding Super Metroid(how did Mother Brain come back, for one).

I'll speak more of these at some later point.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2016, 02:35:42 PM »
I just want them to go back to basics. Go back to what made series like Mario and Zelda popular in the first place.

yeah. Mario being from Brooklyn. That was definitely the big selling point. Buy a NES! We got a guy from Brooklyn!!
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2016, 03:38:21 PM »
I love how everybody who begs for that to "come back" always fails to realize it was never actually used for any significant purpose in any Mario games proper, and removing it affected absolutely nothing in the long run.

Edit: Also gotta point the futility of asking for Mario to have a "story structure" of any sort.

« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2016, 04:10:04 PM »
I mean rebooting the "content and lore." At the very least, make it more sense. It doesn't have to be the most important thing in the game. It just have to be, at least, justified.

From Malstrom(yeah, yeah), many of those in the 80's liked the game for the immersion of the Mushroom World. The gameplay was minor and irrelevant to them(as long as it's not bad, they don't care).

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2016, 04:12:09 PM »
At the very least, make it more sense. It doesn't have to be the most important thing in the game. It just have to be, at least, justified.

Question the first: Why?

Question the second: When did Sean Malstrom become an authority on absolutely every child who ever played Mario in the 80s?

Question the third: Why are you trying this hard to be Sean Malstrom?

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2016, 05:12:54 PM »
At least he's not bagging on every Zelda game after Adventure of Link like Tevis Thompson. But yeah, I'm not sure what "core" of the Mario series there is to go back to besides that plot summary in the SMB instruction booklet.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2016, 06:43:15 PM »
I honestly really really want another game in the style of Zelda II.
That game is soo fun, even if the only other games like it in the series suck ass.
read jitsu wa watashi wa

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2016, 06:59:15 PM »
Eh, could be an interesting change of pace. I've long dreamed of an all-in duo of games that'd be a Mario-style Zelda game and a Zelda-style Mario game.

By "other games like it," though... you don't mean the CD-i series?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Tavros

  • he was hello
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2016, 09:32:55 PM »
I do indeed.
They have stuff that wasn't in Zelda II that make it worse, but the main reason they're bad (in my opinion) is because of how much they *******ized the gameplay of II.
read jitsu wa watashi wa

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2016, 10:03:49 PM »
an all-in duo of games that'd be a Mario-style Zelda game and a Zelda-style Mario game.
ooooooh i like this 👍👍👍👍👍
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2016, 05:02:18 PM »
But aren't both Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi Zelda-style, turn-based battles aside?

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2016, 05:27:49 PM »
I suppose, in the sense that there is a large world and you have a progression of abilities through the whole game. That's about it, though.
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2016, 07:13:12 AM »
I always pictured the Mario one being dungeons, equippable items, etc. in the Mushroom Kingdom with the comparatively grittier Smash Bros. styles of the characters/universe, while the Zelda one would be a 3D platformer (copious focus on Roc's Feather, if need be) with Wind Waker graphics.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

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