Author Topic: Are there 2 Baby Bowsers? (Read 10663 times)

Clark Beyer · « **on:** June 16, 2006, 09:42:07 PM »

One day, I was playing Super Mario Sunshine when the thought occurred to me: are there two Baby Bowsers? Because in SMS, NSMB, and MK:DD, Baby Bowser is depicted as Bowser's son, yet in Yoshi's Story, Yoshi's Island, and M&L:PiT, Baby Bowser is just a younger version of Bowser.

So are we dealing with two different characters here? Because one is Bowser's son, and one is Bowser himself. Bowser even refers to him as "son" at the end of Super Mario Sunshine. This is weird, if you ask me...we could have a Bowser trio on our hands.

MechanicalMonarch · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:14:17 PM »

Umm, you kinda answered your own question. They're two different people, bowsers son just looks like his dad as a kid. I look like my Dad when he was a child so it's not that unusual

Clark Beyer · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:28:38 PM »

I know, I just thought it was weird how they're still both referred to as the same character: Baby Bowser.

MechanicalMonarch · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:47:30 PM »

Well, Bowser refers to his son as "junior" so maybe his name is Prince Bowser Koopa II

Crazy Penguin · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2006, 11:00:53 PM »

Quote

I know, I just thought it was weird how they're still both referred to as the same character: Baby Bowser.

They're not. The one in the present day games is called Bowser Jr.. Check the Mario Kart: Double Dash!! character select screen.

Hirocon · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2006, 12:27:50 AM »

Bowser Junior (Super Mario Sunshine) is a thrice redundant character. He is redundant as a miniature version of Bowser, because we already had Baby Bowser (Yoshi's Island). He is redundant as a child of Bowser, because we already had the Koopalings. His alter ego Shadow Mario is redundant as an evil version of Mario, because we already had Wario. That's why I hate the character Bowser Junior. Nintendo seems to think we like him, though, since they keep putting him in Mario games.

BP · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2006, 01:45:11 AM »

Quote from: Clark Beyer on June 16, 2006, 10:28:38 PM

I know, I just thought it was weird how they're still both referred to as the same character: Baby Bowser.

Nope, the one in Sunshine is Bowser Jr. No other name, just Bowser Jr.
Anyway, in M&L:PiT, it was Baby Bowser, not bowser Jr. Baby bowser used to be different: the original design of Baby Bowser had no horns, for example. I'd say that in PiT the complete change of Baby Bowser's appearance was made to make it seem as if Bowser Jr. was literally just like Bowser when he was a kid.
My opinions on Bowser Jr.? His voice is annoying, but that's something you'll have to endure a lot when you're a Mario fan *coughDaisycoughWAHOOOcough*. Putting him in NSMB was actually fine by me... the Koopalings would've done a better job, except that there are some worlds with more than one fortress and 7 wouldn't be enough... Bowser Jr. is better than digging up Boom-Boom, at least.
Conclusion: No. Two different characters.

Ultima Shadow · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2006, 01:47:26 AM »

Quote from: Bird Person on June 17, 2006, 01:45:11 AM

*coughDaisycoughWAHOOOcough*.

*evil laugh*

Anyway, I think all of the points have been covered in this topic. Still... I'm waiting for a game to show the Koopalings and BJ at the same time. It would be good.

MechanicalMonarch · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2006, 08:04:47 AM »

I'm pretty sure the Koopalings were Bowsers neices and nephews, not children.

The Chef · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:09:51 AM »

Uh, all the official Nintendo sources state that they are his kids.

nensondubois · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2006, 09:12:47 AM »

But whos there mother? That is if they are his kids Unless Bowser did peac... I wait there might be kids reading this like Chef.

Vidgmchtr · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2006, 12:33:10 PM »

Quote from: Bird Person on June 17, 2006, 01:45:11 AM

My opinions on Bowser Jr.? His voice is annoying, but that's something you'll have to endure a lot when you're a Mario fan

The woman who voiced him in Super Mario Sunshine voiced Iggy and Larry in the Mario cartoons, as well as Timmy Turner on The Fairly OddParents.

yoshimastar · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2006, 12:35:22 PM »

WHY DIDN'T NINTENDO MAKE BOWSER JR. LOOK MORE LIKE THE KOOPALINGS!?

So many people would like him better if his design wasn't exactly the same as Bowser's when he was a baby.

BP · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2006, 01:02:58 PM »

Well, have you ever heard of a spitting image? If you think about it, it WAS a bit odd that none of the Koopalings really looked like Bowser...

nensondubois · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2006, 02:37:29 PM »

and how many koopa kids are there?

The Chef · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2006, 03:33:27 PM »

7, and there is no mother. Bowser's asexual. Like Godzilla.

nensondubois · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2006, 03:34:29 PM »

thats creepy

Nintendo Bros. · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2006, 04:23:09 PM »

You guys are mixed up here. Bowser Jr. is actually Ludwig Von Koopa. Nintendo thought it was time to put the Koopalings aside Bowser after SMW, but to leave him with one kid. That would be Ludwig because hes the oldest. This is no lie. That's the truth!

The Chef · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2006, 04:33:42 PM »

State your source, please.

Vidgmchtr · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2006, 07:23:24 PM »

Until you can prove this:

Ludwig Von Koopa != Bowser Jr.

Hirocon · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2006, 08:37:57 PM »

Bowser Junior is younger than the Koopalings, judging from his appearance. And koopa's aren't asexual; there was a female koopa troopa in M&L:PiT.

MechanicalMonarch · « **Reply #21 on:** June 17, 2006, 10:29:35 PM »

How does Koops in PM2 have a girlfriend if they're asexual? How come one of the koopa kids is female? Perhaps only male koopas are aloud to enlist in Bowsers army and those are the only ones seen in Marios career until he started Story-based games?

MEGAß¥TE · « **Reply #22 on:** June 17, 2006, 10:39:43 PM »

Asexual reproduction doesn't mean you can't have different genders in a species.

The Chef · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2006, 07:36:53 AM »

Thanks MEGABYTE.

MechanicalMonarch · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2006, 09:31:35 AM »

While that is true, why would one be bothered with a romantic relationship if one cannot reproduce. The genetic code of the Koopa would not lead them towards even pairing up with the opposite sex if they reproduced asexually

Kojinka · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2006, 09:49:18 AM »

I don't mind BJ's spitting image of Bowser. A lot of people say I look a lot like my mom when she was a teenager. But I too would like to see a game containing all eight of Bowser's kids.

"His alter ego Shadow Mario is redundant as an evil version of Mario, because we already had Wario."
Wario isn't really 'evil'. His greed brings out the worst in him. Personality wise, Wario is the polar opposite of Mario, but that doesn't really mean he's 'evil'. Besides, I always viewed Shadow Mario as a prankster, and Wario as a treasure hunter.
I see Shadow Mario to be redundant as a shadow version of the main character, because we already had Shadow Link in the LoZ series (.

fuzzy · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2006, 11:01:28 AM »

Just a thought: Perhaps Bowser Jr. is all seven koopalings put together?

Vidgmchtr · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2006, 11:05:11 AM »

Master_M-Dog · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2006, 11:47:22 AM »

Bowser Jr. IS Baby Bowser. Adopted and renamed by Bowser. This is true because of the signature bandana. This or Bowser's 7 children are adopted as the most elite force and that they're LIKE Bowser's children.

Gosh, ask Nintendo for stuff like this. :S

yoshimastar · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2006, 12:43:04 PM »

They wouldn't care.

If they did they would at least have given Bowser Jr. a differnt paint job or real eyes instead of the little dots.

Kojinka · « **Reply #30 on:** June 18, 2006, 12:51:02 PM »

No, Master_M-Dog. Unless you can provide us with your source, I'm not believing that.
It's been covered many times, that Baby Bowser is Bowser as a baby, and Bowser Jr. is one of Bowser's eight kids. Those are two different bandanas. Baby Bowser's bandana is more like a bib. BJ's bandana is a magical piece of cloth that can transform BJ into Shadow Mario.

MechanicalMonarch · « **Reply #31 on:** June 18, 2006, 01:24:43 PM »

BJ has two bandanas, one has a nose and mustache on it which can shapeshift him into shadow mario while his other just has a drawing of a fanged mouth that he wheres in NSMB.

Crazy Penguin · « **Reply #32 on:** June 18, 2006, 01:46:51 PM »

Quote

While that is true, why would one be bothered with a romantic relationship if one cannot reproduce. The genetic code of the Koopa would not lead them towards even pairing up with the opposite sex if they reproduced asexually.

Because this is fantasy fiction. And not only is it fantasy fiction, it's fantasy fiction set in a world where the stork delivers new babies to their parents.

MEGAß¥TE · « **Reply #33 on:** June 18, 2006, 02:06:42 PM »

Quote from: MechanicalMonarch on June 18, 2006, 09:31:35 AM

While that is true, why would one be bothered with a romantic relationship if one cannot reproduce. The genetic code of the Koopa would not lead them towards even pairing up with the opposite sex if they reproduced asexually

Okay I should have clarified... some species can reproduce both sexually and asexually. Not that I'm implying anything about the Mario series, which is fiction, and inconsistent at that.

Hirocon · « **Reply #34 on:** June 18, 2006, 07:31:41 PM »

If Bowser reproduced asexually, wouldn't his offspring be clones of Bowser? That might explain why Bowser Junrior looks so much like Baby Bowser, but it wouldn't explain why the koopalings look a lot different from Bowser (and why one koopaling is female).

Master_M-Dog · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2006, 08:40:17 PM »

You don't HAVE to buy it, though. Just like Kamek's disappearance, Nintendo left us with only our imaginations to guess what's what.

With that said, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :P

BP · « **Reply #36 on:** June 19, 2006, 12:02:45 AM »

Quote from: Master_M-Dog on June 18, 2006, 11:47:22 AM

Bowser Jr. IS Baby Bowser. Adopted and renamed by Bowser. This is true because of the signature bandana.

Not possible. Baby Bowser is Bowser, but a baby. Didn't the name "Baby Bowser" give that away? Don't say "They met in M&L:PiT" because they were separated by time afterward and never met each other again. Though I think the Koopa Kids in the earlier Mario Parties were called Baby Bowsers... that doesn't matter, spinoffs aren't canon.
The bandana... maybe Bowser gave it to Bowser Jr. as an heirloom (though it changes all the time... a mustache, fangs, and when Baby Bowser wore it it was blank...)
And again, the Koopalings are considered Bowser's children because he made them with evil magic. Bowser Jr. may have been made as "an improvement." The Koopalings never talked so maybe Bowser wanted to have a son he could better connect with, so he got rid of the Koopalings and made Bowser Jr. Just another theory, I'm actually coming up with this off the top of my head as I type it.

The Chef · « **Reply #37 on:** June 19, 2006, 07:36:39 AM »

Quote

spinoffs aren't canon

Who said? Saying that something 'isn't canon' is just a way of saying 'this is too hard for me to work out'. I accept the spinoffs and actually divised a few of my own theories on them. In this case, I'll state mt theory on the 'Baby Bowsers/Koopa Kids' from MP. Bowser tried to clone himself, but the spell went arwy and resulted in a bunch of little Bowsers instead of one big one. As for the other kids, I belive the Koopalings came from a wife, who divorced after Bowser wanted to use the children in the war effort, and Bowser Jr. is an improved clone,like Boba Fett to Jango Fett(which means the kids from MP are like the clone troopers :P)or Minime to Dr. Evil.That explains how he looks so much like his father when he was a baby.

yoshimastar · « **Reply #38 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:14:41 AM »

The Koopalings and Bowser Jr. could have been born around the same time. Bowser wanted the Koopalings to help him so he made them older by magic. He left Bowser Jr. alone because he wanted a normal son. Bowser Jr.'s supposedly old enough in Super Mario Sunshine to help out.

The Chef · « **Reply #39 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:45:31 AM »

That's the beauty of this. There can be an endless number of theories, but none of them are "right". I guess we may as well stick to our own ideas and leave it at that. Now let's lay this topic to rest. Further discussion should go in the Mariology thread. I didn't bump it for nothing, ya know.

Vidgmchtr · « **Reply #40 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:15:28 AM »

Here is what I think.

Baby Bowser was Bowser. As a baby.

The Koopalings came from a wife, who is never shown in games or other media, but has served her purpose with Bowser, and Bowser abandoned her (sad, yes, but...).

All those little Bowsers you see in Mario Party games are minions with no relation to Bowser, who were turned into what they look like with Bowser's magic.

Bowser Jr. was also born from a wife, but not the same wife as the one who conceived the Koopalings. This makes Bowser Jr. the Koopalings' half-brother. Bowser then lied to Jr., telling him Peach was his mother.

WarioLandMan · « **Reply #41 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:15:59 AM »

It's a big Bowser family!

The Chef · « **Reply #42 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:14:39 PM »

Can we please move this discussion to the Mariology thread? This one already served it's purpose. I bumped the other thread for a reason.