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Author Topic: "A WINNER IS YOU!", AKA Weegee's Required Reading #1  (Read 6129 times)

« on: February 04, 2011, 03:38:22 AM »
Why is it that so many video games deny the player recognition for beating them? Are developers really too lazy to implement a post-game mode or accolade to acknowledge one's completion of a game, or do they assume players would prefer to fight its final boss over and over and over and over and over ad infinitum? To bring this to its logical extreme, a game that doesn't save after being beaten might as well not save at all.

Thoughts?
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

WarpRattler

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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 05:32:00 AM »
I understand where this is coming from, but...honestly, I can't think of many games I've played even semi-recently that suffer from it.

There's, uh...Symphony of the Night, and that was the PSP version by way of The Dracula X Chronicles, so when you reach the true end you unlock more stuff. Most of the post-SotN Castlevania games do something along those lines, and on the other side of that coin, Metroid games since at least Super (I haven't played M2) mark a completed save file.

Most arcade shmups and ports of such list your stage completion on the scoreboard as "ALL" or some variation thereof if you finish the game, and shmups developed for home consoles to start usually have some sort of unlockables given for game completion in addition to that (usually more game modes, or things like Gradius V's edit mode).

The RPGs I've been playing all mark for completion and/or have New Game Plus-type modes.

Thinking about it, all of these are Japanese games. Aside from VVVVVV and Super Meat Boy, which do track a completed game, the only western games I've really been playing recently are strategy games like Civilization IV and AI War, both of which are the sort of game where tracking completion would be silly (and AI War has achievements anyway).

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 08:16:57 AM »
I haven't really played any games that don't recognize completion lately, either.  Uncharted 2 has trophies, and Kindgom Hearts: Re:coded has trophies and a save file thing.  Minecraft can't really be completed in the first place.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 08:31:38 AM »
Well first, this "recogniztion" exists now on 100% of the games for 360 and PS3 because of achievements. And second, I agree with WarpWrattler and Turtlekid1 that this guy is kind of living in the past. Have you run into this problem in anything recently, WeeGee?

Quote
To bring this to its logical extreme, a game that doesn't save after being beaten might as well not save at all.
^ This is retarded though. Because I don't treasure save files as though they were priceless jewels like you OCD kids do.

WarpRattler

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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 11:48:23 AM »
But what if your achievements got wiped?

I don't exactly treasure my save files unless I've put literally weeks worth of hours into the game (doesn't happen), or I've unlocked or cleared something that required me to go through an effort I really don't want to deal with again.

That said, I've already had DJ Max Portable 3 wipe my data once, and if it does it again I'm throwing the UMD at a wall.

Kimimaru

  • Max Stats
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 01:20:16 PM »
I don't really care whether a game indicates if you beat it or not. "Beating" the game holds a different meaning for every player. Some players feel that they have only truly completed the game once they did everything and obtained 100% (me in most cases), while others think that completing the main quest is enough. Yes, it's nice to know if the game has been beaten on a certain file, but if you open up a friend's file and see that he/she has like every item, etc, I think it's safe to assume that your friend beat the game on that file.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 05:12:15 PM »
Have you run into this problem in anything recently, WeeGee?

I agree that it's far more prevalent in older games, but the issue still remains in current-gen titles like LoZ:TP and M&L:BIS.

Come to think of it, most of the Mario RPG series is notorious for cheating players out of a complete game.

SMRPG - Freezes at "THE END" like most SNES games do.
PM - Eternally loops the fireworks sequence until the console is reset. I remember leaving that game on for six hours in hopes of eventually being given a chance to save and retain my completion.
M&L:SS - Resets without saving after credits. Beanbean Castle Town remains ruined and deserted forever. Whoever decided not to have the town restored after Bowletta is defeated should die in a fire.
PM:TTYD - This is Mario's greatest role-playing adventure for many reasons, including the fact that it rewards the player to a permanent resolution. All RPGs should do it like this.
M&L:PiT - As a proverbial slap in the face, the player is forced to manually undo their completion of the game in order to continue playing it. One of the rare instances in which I wanted Miyamoto to go **** himself.
SPM - Follows in the noble footsteps of TTYD by keeping the final boss dead. This bodes well for PM3DS.
M&L:BIS - Standard reset-without-save ending.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 07:29:37 PM »
Yeah, Nintendo seems to have a track record of that in quite a few of their older games, but I'd agree that--at least in my experience--it's not a prevalent enough issue anymore to merit an article.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 07:59:39 PM »
I don't think most games going back to the last save point before the boss is neccesarily a bad thing. If I've spent any amount of time trying to get to the final battle (mostly in RPG games), then I hope to do that battle again.

I do like that some recent games allow you to save after the final boss (like PM2 and SPM are good examples). I wish more games would take advantage of that function, but it's not a huge issue.
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

Kimimaru

  • Max Stats
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 08:07:47 PM »
M&L:PiT - As a proverbial slap in the face, the player is forced to manually undo their completion of the game in order to continue playing it. One of the rare instances in which I wanted Miyamoto to go **** himself.

Are you referring to when Stuffwell tells you that he can activate some time mechanic to bring you back to before some of the final events happened? If so, I never found a problem with that; you're able to go back and fight the last boss right away anyway.
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 08:17:05 PM »
One of the worst offenders I've played so far is Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light. Once you reach the final boss, Chaos, the entire world is in an endless state of despair. Day and night are replaced by an ominous purple twilight, and most NPCs speak of nothing but the imminent apocalypse. Beating Chaos returns the world to balance... until you're forced to reset the game. Then everything goes right back to doomsday mode. Developers,



Are you referring to when Stuffwell tells you that he can activate some time mechanic to bring you back to before some of the final events happened? If so, I never found a problem with that; you're able to go back and fight the last boss right away anyway.

That's exactly my point; THE FINAL BOSS SHOULD BE GONE FOREVER AFTER YOU KILL IT. If you want a rematch, start a new file as you would to re-fight any other boss.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

Black Mage

  • HP 1018 MP 685
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 08:30:40 PM »
Maybe some warning that we are going to post spoilers without using, I don't know, spoiler tags would be nice in the future.

I was planning on playing 4 Heroes of Light at some point.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 08:38:34 PM by Black Mage »

« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 08:55:45 PM »
Well, I learned one thing today.

Miyamoto is apparently the head of Alpha Dream.
As a game that requires six friends, an HDTV, and skill, I can see why the majority of TMK is going to hate on it hard.

« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 09:13:38 PM »
He is?! That's awesome!!

This sorta makes me think of another point about games in recent years: I don't think the difficulty of games has changed all that much, but rather the information we recieve about them. You can read about secrets and tricks to a game you're thinking about buying.
Kinopio is the ultimate video game character! Who else can drive a kart, host parties, play tennis, give good advice and items, and is almost always happy??

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2011, 10:17:40 PM »
Remember when I mentioned Kingdom Hearts: Re:coded?  One great thing about that game is that you can explore worlds after you've beaten them, or replay the episode and relive whichever part(s) of the story you like.  More games need mission replay.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

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