Author Topic: Good Ol' Days... (Read 9386 times)

billy chilly · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2000, 11:11:21 PM »

Okay, Mega 2, if Nintendo hasn't made any good 3D Mario games, what the hell do you call Super Mario 64? Oh, you know, that little game that invented the 3D platforming genre?

And why is it every Mario game you don't like is an "orthodoxie"? I get real annoyed by closed-minded "old farts" who can't enjoy anything released after '93. Not every early 90's sidescroller is good, folks! Let's face it, Mario is Missing was one of the most disappointing games Nintendo has ever released, and, *gasp* it was released during your "Golden Age" of Mario! Are good games, esepecially good sidescrollers, harder to find now? You bet. Does that mean no one makes good games anymore? No.

And don't think I'm some 12-year old moron who thinks all games have to be 3D to be good either. I was pretty aggravated to hear that the next Metroid game was not only rumored to be produced by a no-name 2nd party (Retro Studios?), but it was going to be 3D?! NOOO!!

My point? Grow up. Expand you tastes in gaming. At least try something before you turn your back on it or call it an "orthodoxie." A game is not required by law to be a sidescroller to be good, regardless of the painful lack of good sidescrollers.

billy chilly · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2000, 11:17:04 PM »

One more thing. . .

Before you tell me all 3D games have no challenge, and that 2D games are the pinnacle of challenging gameplay, actually go back and play the "Golden" games. If you're anything like me, you might realize they're not nearly as hard as they were when you were 6. I was shocked when I began going back through Mario Bros. 3 (the best of the Bros. games, IMHO) and realized it wasn't nearly as hard as I had remembered. . .

Mega 2 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2000, 08:08:49 PM »

If you would read my post I said that 3-D platform was NOT a bad or unchallenging system. I also never said that there were no good "Mario" games for Nintendo 64, or that all 2-D sidescroller games were good. Are you even talking about my post, or did you get me mixed up with Mario Maniac? Please don't respond to posts until you know what the author was saying, that's what happened to the "Mario war" topic.

Mega 2
Cybernetic Abiogenesis Project

Fifth · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2000, 09:29:05 PM »

Ooo! Controversy!

Hmmm, I guess I still haven't made my point too clearly...

Ok... take Zelda (not exactly a platform game, but I still have the same point.)
I've played and beaten both of the N64 games and most (I can't say all, I've never owned a NES) of the others.
The new games: graphically appealing, nice challenge, good story, lots of details... yet not the same. The Z-targeting battle system gave for some nice duels, but it can't compare to running aimlessly through the overworld and being smothered by fierce (well, not exactly fierce, but numerous! And they still hurt!) enimies, fending them off with an arsenal off items that had applicable uses (the ice wand: unneccesary, but great fun!) other than to topple one obstacle to get to the next level, the constant beeping reminding you that one more wrong step will mean the end of the line and another embarassing notch on the death toll.

I'm not exactly sure how to express what I'm saying very clearly, but I just played A Link to the Past last weekend. Great fun, great challenge. (Maybe the simplicity of the gameplay leads to more complexity of the game? I dunno.)
I'm also not saying anything against 3D games, but if there is a way to parllel that feel that you get with the supreme organized chaos and panic of trying frantically to right yourself onto a platform while accidentally knocking yourself off of it for the third time while trying to evade a barrage of enemy fire in a platformer, or the sheer joy of finding a well-hiden secret, or getting and brand new item that lets you knock soldiers off cliffs in a new and exciting manner (Zelda, of course,) then the game industry has yet to achieve it.

(Sorry for the lack of Mario citings, but Zelda was fresh on my mind)

billy chilly · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2000, 11:32:21 PM »

Sorry about that Mega 2, that post wasn't directed specifically towards you, there were a couple comments from assorted people that really irritated me, so I responded to all of them at once with those two posts.

ps- I am NOT trying to start another Mario War.

Mario Maniac · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2000, 06:32:36 AM »

Well the question I have for all of you is this:

When will Nintendo bring more "classic" Mario games to the N64 (or even Game Boy Color...)? I mean games like the great classic: Super Mario World, or even Super Mario Bros. 3... I know that Yoshi's Story was the first SNES->N64 conversion, but man DID IT SUCK! Baby Mario wasn't in it, the story and characters were so repulsively cute that I could've thrown up by just watching the screenshots on the game box!

We need more classic Mario games on the new systems... Super Mario All-Stars (one of the best Mario games on the SNES) was a collection of all the Nintendo Mario Bros. games that was sporting better graphics, more challanges, etc.

What I'm saying is that we need to have more of the old games on the new Nintendo systems... It's a good thing that Nintendo made Super Mario Bros. for Game Boy Color... at least that's a start.

Mario Maniac!!

billy chilly · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2000, 02:45:32 PM »

Yes, Yoshi's Story was more or less the most disappointing game I've ever played. Not necessarily bad, just painfully mediocre. Especially since it was supposed to be a follow-up to Yoshi's Island, one of my all-time favorites. I have lost all respect for that particular group of lizards.

I don't know about reintroducing more classic Mario titles though, I'm sure Nintendo would get plenty harassed if they over did it. And the real question here is, could they make money off 'em? I don't know about you guys, but my SNES is still in heavy use and I already have Mario All-Stars, Mario World and Mario World2 (aka Yoshi's Island), so a compilation with spruced up aesthetics really wouldn't mean much to me. . . Though I have to admit, it would be cool to see the Koopa Kids in full 3D. . .

. . .while maintaing the near-perfect gameplay, of course.

Golem · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2000, 09:16:17 PM »

Oh no. I'm not sayin' that PKMN was the downfall. I was sayin' around that time period.

An' I think Mario does better in 2D myself.
Puzzles are hard in 3D, but not action.

"Oh no! Look out, he's comin' for ya!"
2D: Jumps/Ducks Barely/Doesn't Miss
3D: Move to the Side: Complete Miss

That's my two cents.

~teehee~

Mega 2 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2000, 05:51:36 PM »

Since the words "Yoshi's Island" popped up on the screen, nothing in "Mario" has been sacred.

Lee "Mega 2" Sherman

Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopa

billy chilly · « **Reply #24 on:** December 14, 2000, 12:57:48 PM »

Mega 2, if you'd just look past the cute graphics in Yoshi's Island, you'd see one of the best sidescrollers out there.

Or are you just mad Nintendo finally explained why Bowser is so hell-bent on killing the Mario Bros. and Yoshi?

Mega 2 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 14, 2000, 05:32:13 PM »

Uh...Bowser wasn't in that game. The graphics were awful, but that was just one problem. It abandoned the classic "Mario mechanics" and began the "anarchy" trend in "Mario" games. I think the poor gameplay is the main reason "Yoshi's Island" was such a flop. "Yoshi's Story" was just a minor improvement, and "Super Mario 64" was left tainted.

Lee "Mega 2" Sherman

Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopa

Hinopio · « **Reply #26 on:** December 15, 2000, 07:30:27 PM »

I don't understand how anyone could honestly think that Yoshi's Island (the one for the SNES) was a bad game. Even worse: how could aforementioned person refer to Yoshi's Story (the one for the n64) as an improvement over YI?

Mega 2 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 16, 2000, 10:07:22 AM »

I think most people here agree with me.

A true "Mario" fan rejects these new orthodoxies. Only "Mario" newcomers who care more about what's new and popular than than what's well-made and forget about the classics once the hype is dead buy into this anarchy ("Yoshi's Island," "Yoshi's Story," "Mario 64," "Wario Land," etc.).

Lee "Mega 2" Sherman

Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopa

Edited by - Mega 2 on 12/16/2000 2:05:22 PM

billy chilly · « **Reply #28 on:** December 16, 2000, 03:12:25 PM »

A "true" game fan knows a good game when they play it. . .

Fryguy64 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 18, 2000, 05:57:56 AM »

Yoshi's Island DID have Bowser in it - the last Boss, Mr. Smart Guy... You've obviously played it thoroughly...

And it remained as true to the old format as Super Mario World did. It was an amazing game, one of the most challenging and awesome platform games ever - and it even had a plot behind it.

IMHO, games like SMB were good for their time, but these days they're too easy, and need an extra kick of challenge.

Yoshi's Story WAS a big disappointment. What upset me most about it was that it claimed to be a sequel to SMW2. Yoshi's Story provided little gameplay for little time with a few innovative yet tedious ideas (such as the "sniff" function).

But if you weren't so shallow-minded, Mega, you'd realise there are great aspects of a lot (not all) of the new Mario games... and in actual fact a lot of them are no different from the ones you claim are so much better. Even in the NES days there were numerous spin-offs between the major release titles. Things haven't changed, you've just gotten older.

Nostalgia is the biggest cause of ignorance in mankind.