The ANGST thread: Complain here!

[CoconutMikeNIke]

Also, I never said "beat the child". I said paddling/spanking in school is the best way to handle a bully or an irresponsible child. You people totally blew it way out of proportion. The freaking' subject wasn't even about parents and beating their children for gosh sakes! It was about schools and their approach to handling bullies, which in turn leads to school shootings.

This is something I feel strong about, and I'm open to debate at all times. When people start calling me ignorant because they disagree, in addition to manipulating what I said, I feel as if it's more like mudslinging than actual debating.

Enlighten me as to how using a weapon on a child, even for positive intentions, is not beating.  Where's the line between punishment and abuse?  And I realize the topic was about school discipline, but to mention children's behavior and not expect it move onto the parents is ignoring part of the situation.  There would be less bullies if it were taken care of at home. 

Also, would you use the same tactics in higher education levels?  Young children are one thing, spanking is generally a minor issue with young children, but after a certain age, it would seem like that would cause more mental trauma than solve any bullying issues.


Oh, and TEM, I ran into the same problem around here.  I went to 4 stores looking for Link's Crossbow Training, and not until the last one did anyone know what it was, and the last one didn't have it.

[BriGuy92]

No, that just means you're ignorant.

And again, we see Mr. Chupperson calling names based on his opinion. Wow. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I am really getting sick of this. It's been increasing, too. I honestly don't think that it is necessary, and it surely doesn't help anyone else out. Why, Chupperson, why? Do you like it when people leave because of you?And yes, I am considering leaving. I'm pretty far from that right now, but the possibility's open.

And that is my ANGST for tonight.

[Chupperson Weird]

Oh, it isn't ignorant not to know that you aren't supposed to pick on kids because of how they look? (Or any reason really)
I should have used the past tense, I suppose.

[PaperLuigi]

Enlighten me as to how using a weapon on a child, even for positive intentions, is not beating.  Where's the line between punishment and abuse?  And I realize the topic was about school discipline, but to mention children's behavior and not expect it move onto the parents is ignoring part of the situation.  There would be less bullies if it were taken care of at home. 

Look at it this way. If you behave and respect your fellow student, you won't have to get spanked! Spanking is not abuse. I was spanked at home (not at school, mind you) and I never thought that it was abusive. Abuse is when a drunk beats his kid without mercy daily. Getting spanked on the butt after you've done something wrong isn't abusive.

Oh, it isn't ignorant not to know that you aren't supposed to pick on kids because of how they look? (Or any reason really)
I should have used the past tense, I suppose.

I was a dumb kid, and if I was spanked everytime when I made fun of someone, I think things would have been better. Instead, I was made fun of for my looks in middle school, and in my personal opinion, it shaped me into who I am today. It gave me a taste of what others had to deal with when I made fun of them, and now I know that bullying is wrong. Since most bullies don't get that treatment, I believe it's up to the school to do something more than just let them off with a 30 minute trip to detention, or a call home.

[ShadowBrain]

I have the same opinion too.

Also I have angst.  In my language arts class we are reading very old books like Frankenstein and The Island of Doctor Morreau.  I don't like old books because I can never tell what's going on in them!  I also hate the locker room in my PE class because of all the noise and cussing.  I also hate cussing.  In my opinion it is entirely unnecessary and doesn't make you cool at all.  I also hate how the term gay dosn't even mean if a guy likes another guy it just means dumb of stupid.

Sorry for all the angst, but the middle school I go to is a good generator of angst.

Agreed thoroughly.

What good does corporal punishment do? Fear? That's right, control people with fear. It works for church and state... Anyway, well, just be glad you don't go to school in Japan... loads of kids in the 90's got killed by teachers at those schools!

[PaperLuigi]

It isn't fear, it's the right thing. Punishing a bully with a few spanks on the butt is not abusive, nor is it "controlling". Believe it or not, Japan and the US are two totally different things. I do know that there is a limit to how far you should go with a bully and his punishment. To me, spanking isn't that bad, but it reminds him of what will happen if he hurts another person. In Japan, it's quite  possible that they went beyond that (waits for an angry mob to attack him for being politically incorrect). I look at the facts for our country, not some other country who doesn't share much in common with us. The facts say, for our country, that when we stopped spanking/paddling in the 1980's, school shootings went up. Like, way up. From about 2 to nearly 50. Not all of them ended in a mass killing, but a lot of them did, and that's what I aim to prevent.


I think people may be forgetting that my point isn't about teaching people not to shoot through spanking. My point is that by punishing a bully through spanking, we can stop him from hurting another student, who will in turn come to the school and kill innocent lives because his school did nothing to punish/stop the bully.

If you want to see true abuse, take a trip down to a drunk's apartment and watch him beat his son daily, even when the son hasn’t done anything wrong. Using a paddle to spank is not abuse, and it doesn't have to happen to a student who just behaves. I know most of you have never had to be sent to detention for something you did wrong (bullying, calling names, etc.) but to those of you who have, did you really learn anything? Could you honestly say you'd do it again if you were spanked on the behind? Probably not, unless you're the kind that likes to be spanked.

[Chupperson Weird]

How is it not fear? Negative reinforcement is nothing but fear. Getting smacked hurts. Humans fear pain.
Also, continual what the heck at paddle speak.

I can guarantee that there is no logical correlation between spanking and shooting. Or bullying. Or any negative reinforcement and the behavior it tries to get rid of. Because people's minds actually don't work that way. Full Metal Jacket comes to mind.

[PaperLuigi]

I can guarantee that there is no logical correlation between spanking and shooting. Or bullying. Or any negative reinforcement and the behavior it tries to get rid of.

It's all well and good you can say that, but I'd like to see some proof. I can at least say that after 1980, when most schools stopped spanking because they were afraid they might offend parents, school shootings went way up.

How is it not fear? Negative reinforcement is nothing but fear. Getting smacked hurts. Humans fear pain.

A human also feels fear when a bully picks on him, if you've ever been picked on before.

The list bellow has the number of school shootings/extreme violence in 1990-2005. But the years before that (basically the 1940-1970's) are missing. There were only about 2 school shootings before then, and 1980 was about the year when they stopped punishing bullies. I really wish we lived in a time where we inforced the rules with spanking. I guarantee that none of us would be complaining about how "unfair" it is. We'd tell our kids about how it kept bullies from hurting other students. I know my parents and teachers have told me about it many times.

[Vidgmchtr]

I like how PaperLuigi keeps telling us in every post that before the 1980s, there have only been about two school shootings.

We learned this in your first post, you don't need to tell us over and over again. You're basically restating your arguments in all of your posts. Chup's name calling is bad, yes, but repeating things to us as if we're slow-witted people with the attention span of a 5 year old with A.D.D. is even more annoying, in my opinion.

I have jokingly stated in the past that the spanking in school rule should be reinforced whenever some student drives me crazy, but ultimately I don't think it should happen, because it doesn't work. Most bullies, in my opinion, are lost causes. if they won't learn for themselves to change their ways, they'll never learn, period. It's just like back last March when we told CTOAN not to bully that flamboyant child. He got all mad at us because we sided with the kid he was bullying and kept telling us we couldn't change him (he was right on that point, he has to learn that for himself). Look at how that ended here.

We could sympathize with the people who caused the Columbine and VT massacres, yes, but there are TONS of other, more rational ways to deal with bullying and venting anger besides coming to school with firearms and explosives. Teachers CAN and usually do enforce suspension and expulsion in cases where students have been traumatized to a certain point, I know this, because it has happened with people that were in my class back in middle school. Kid was sent to juvenile hall for brutally hurting another student. We never saw the guy again.

A smack on the cheek, wrist, or butt won't enforce anything, though. Forced enrollment of problem students to military schools and the like MIGHT work, but that might be a little too extreme, in my opinion. I DID like BP's idea of scaring children good and early when it came to smoking, I think it could also be used for bullying, show progressive images of children who were bullies in school who turned into thugs and gangsters who broke the law and ended up imprisoned.

[BP]

Aren't prisons getting to be too lenient nowadays? Like, don't they have TVs now or something?

[Vidgmchtr]

In maximum and medium-security prisons, Most only carry two channels, one of them being a religious one so inmates can still practice. The other channel, I believe, is a closed-cicuit channel which plays...something, it's been awhile since I learned about prisons in Criminal Justice class in high school.

Minimum security prisons are only for people who aren't a physical threat to society who have committed white-collar crimes. Some of them are almost resort-like in outward appearance, so I'd assume they DO have color televisions with cable or satellite. My second cousin (my father's cousin) was sent to one of these a few years back and was released, something about a company he worked for being in an Enron-like scandal.

[PaperLuigi]

I like how PaperLuigi keeps telling us in every post that before the 1980s, there have only been about two school shootings.

We learned this in your first post, you don't need to tell us over and over again. You're basically restating your arguments in all of your posts. Chup's name calling is bad, yes, but repeating things to us as if we're slow-witted people with the attention span of a 5 year old with A.D.D. is even more annoying, in my opinion.

I apologize.

Anyway, I don't like how prisons are getting lenient, even if it is just T.V. In one prison, you can actually buy your way up a better prison cell, to one that has internet and cleaner beds.

[Vidgmchtr]

Trust me, I probably would've learned that last year if that was true. The only prisons that could possibly have luxuries like internet and satellite TV are minimum-security prisons, and those don't contain people who have committed stuff like murder. My father's cousin wasn't really a bad man, I'd say he was just caught in the wrong place in the wrong time, and according to my father who visited him, they treated him quite nicely in the minimum-security prison he had to be in for 3-5 years (I forget how long he was sentenced there).

Prisons might have overcrowing, but I don't believe they're becoming more lenient.

[Glorb]

I think prisons that reward good behavior are better than prisons that just have inmates stagnate and do nothing to help their criminal-ness. I mean, if I went to prison for, say, murder, and I were in pretty crappy conditions, I'd try and be as good as possible to earn privleges like TV, books, video games, not getting raped, whatever. I mean, this would probably only work for minimum-security prisons and not for murderers, but it makes sense to me.

[BP]

I don't think prison guards care. And this is all taxpayers' money. Would you like to pay for a game console for a person in jail?

I'm not sure what to think of my cool car anymore. It looks awesome, but it doesn't have cruise control, a cooler, a dashboard, airbags, much room in the back, button-activated locks or windows, and it's stick. All it has going for it is its retro l33thood and its somewhat good gas mileage (and a Honda Civic would have better). So I'll probably end up having to sell it and get a newer car. I want a dashboard for those Mario figurines coming out in '08, and my friends want me to have comfortable seats in the back as I'll be the first to have a license and therefore the first to make it to the one-year mark... but I wish I could take the interior of my mom's car and encase it in the Ghia's exterior, and have that refurbished. Oh well. Safety first.