Do you believe in God?

42 (71.2%)
9 (15.3%)
8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59


Author Topic: A Survey This Is  (Read 99069 times)


  • Kansas
« Reply #330 on: March 22, 2006, 05:25:12 PM »
Why does life need to have a purpose besides whatever goals you set for yourself? I mean, why do you want to have goals set by someone else (a god)?

Lizard Dude,
Well, you bring a interesting point to the floor. Funny thing is... God dosen't "set goals" for you. You set your own goals. THat is why we have free will. Think about it like this...

Let's pretend thatI make an army of robots. I program these robots to love me unconditionally. Woulf this love mean anything to me? Not really. They are just doing whatever I programmed them to do.

Now let's suppose that I have a robot that is programed with free will. It can freely choose to love me, or not to. Its love will mean so much more because it dosen't HAVE to love me, but it does. This is the doctrine of Free Will.

So God has a plan for us, but he dosen't tell us our every move. It just dosen't work like that. God lets you set your own goals. But he does provide a model for living. It is hardly denyable that stiving to live up to the golden rule (love your neighbor like yourself) is a bad goal in life. 
Εὐθύνατε τὴν ὁδὸν Κυρίου

« Reply #331 on: March 22, 2006, 05:46:47 PM »
I don't deny that at all. Most gods these days have very good goals for their robots.

« Reply #332 on: March 22, 2006, 07:30:45 PM »
I think PaperLuigi sums up my stance on all these things quite nicely. thank you, PL.

You're welcome, Sazaku. I learned along time ago that fighting with others about your beliefs is a bad idea.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #333 on: March 22, 2006, 07:52:45 PM »
Yeah, it can turn into a real mess.

Insane Steve

  • Professional Cynic
« Reply #334 on: March 22, 2006, 09:50:02 PM »
I think a world where everyone believes the same thing is several times scarier than a world where people fight about their differences. I.E., the world we live in today. Neither is even near perfect, but the latter is vastly desirable to me.

I'll sum up why I believe in science over religion (despite neither being proven) in two points:

1) Most people I know who try to justify the existance of God and creationism use circular logic to "prove" their point. It may be eloquently worded, but it's still mostly "God exists because there's no way He can't exist." The only really compelling argument I generally see is the "what's the purpose of life?" to which I cite the human free will argument. I have more than enough goals for myself to achieve in my lifetime.

2) Essentially, Lizard Dude's argument. Science strives to prove and disprove itself constantly. Scientists feel no shame if it is discovered that their ideas were entirely wrong (assuming the act of being wrong didn't harm anyone); they just look at the evidence and try again. Religion tends to turn away from changing itself. A lot of religious customs are very deeply rooted; while I see nothing wrong with this as is, it seems a bit hard to follow something that thrives on the status quo.

I agree with the disagreements can become a mess assessment, but I'm glad that this one's been flame-free for the last 15 or so pages. Very rare to see a religious discussion stay this docile for this long on the internet. Keep up the good discussion.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #335 on: March 22, 2006, 10:00:55 PM »
dude677, have you thought about how since time is considered a dimension, we are simply only capable of moving along it in one direction? And if we were able to move back and forth upon it, creating different outcomes, both outcomes would exist? It is my idea that our experience of time is simply too narrow to comprehend it fully.
That was a joke.

« Reply #336 on: March 22, 2006, 10:03:46 PM »
Something Sapphira said made me want to clear this point up.

I don't believe in evolution between species, but I do believe in microevolution (if that's what it's called), which is obviously a real phenomenon. It's like the situation with those finches that Darwin studied; they got thicker beaks because the ones with bigger beaks could crack nuts more easily and thus were more likely to survive and reproduce.
GEIANDGIRLCO DIRECT - The Sensitive Alternative

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #337 on: March 22, 2006, 10:07:46 PM »
Well, that's just like dog breeding or something, only dog breeds were artificially engineered by humans.
That was a joke.

« Reply #338 on: March 23, 2006, 02:24:55 AM »
How in the heck can you believe in "microevolution" and not "macroevolution" when the only difference between them is one of time and scale?

That's like saying you believe in water droplets but don't believe you can fill a container with enough of them.

And as for

Another reason I have faith in Creation is because it hasn't been disproven yet but evolution has been disproven over and over (so I have heard, and should probably look that up too, sorry).

I'll quote Stephen J. Gould:

Quote from: Stephen J. Gould
Yet amidst all this turmoil no biologist has been led to doubt the fact that evolution occurred; we are debating how it happened. We are all trying to explain the same thing: the tree of evolutionary descent linking all organisms by ties of genealogy. Creationists pervert and caricature this debate by conveniently neglecting the common conviction that underlies it, and by falsely suggesting that evolutionists now doubt the very phenomenon we are struggling to understand.


  • Kansas
« Reply #339 on: March 23, 2006, 03:18:31 PM »
Exactly. Just take mitochondrial DNA, for example. The domestic dog is traced back to the wolf, who ha more grandparents, whose fossils we have.
Εὐθύνατε τὴν ὁδὸν Κυρίου

« Reply #340 on: March 24, 2006, 04:51:37 PM »
dude677: That... is the craziest idea I have ever heard of!  Rediculous, yes, but interesting too.  Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's make a Back to the Future IV!

Koopaslaya: You said it much better than I could!  Free will is real love.

IS: I too would also prefer to live in a world where people believe different things.  In history, hasn't there been times where people have changed religion to make it whatever they want and used it to control people and steal their money? (I really need to learn more history, doh!)  I don't want that at all.

People may also believe in God because after they try to really know more about Him and obey Him, they experience great changes in their lives and can discover that God is helping them to act like He wants them to.  God helps his followers do more than just survive their problems but also learn from them and grow stronger in character (like learning patience from situations that make people feel impatient, and so on). But despite how wonderful that is, living as a real, authentic Christian means living a way that can sometimes be very challenging and unpopular, but overall makes you feel alive and close to God.

If believers of religion changed their beliefs whenever they wanted to, that could cause a few problems for others who aren't careful.  Of course, it takes both faith and continual research that things have stayed the way they should through history.  Have there been a lot of religions that have changed or come from other religions?

Speaking of accuracy, I do have a reason for believing the Bible and there's more to it than just blind faith.  When I read the Bible I'm positive that it's true because God tells me that it is.  If something isn't true then He would definitely let me know and help me find the truth. (I think there was a Bible verse about the Holy Spirit leading people to the truth, but I don't have time to look it up right now, sorry).  I know this could sound rediculous to people who aren't saved but it's completely true and I know that it's not my imagination.  If you don't experience it for yourself then it's difficult to understand, but God gives wisdom and understanding to those who ask for it (again, I forget that verse DX).  Even though I don't understand everything in the Bible and some parts make me go "You got to be kidding me!" (like when Jesus basically called a Gentile woman a dog), I still trust that there's a reason for things that I can't see now and might never comprehend, but I still trust that He knows more than I ever will and has a reason for everything.

I admit that at first I didn't know that evolution was a theory in-progress and continually changing, and I thank you, LD and anyone else, who said that to clear that up for me.  Because I also thought it stayed the same all the time but... oops!  Guess not.  Big flunk-a-roony in evolution 101.  I wonder if most other Creationists know that or not.  But there are different kinds of evolution in the world and some involve different kinds of changes, and not all of them may be correct.  If every different form of evolution is put together and called the same thing even if it's not correct, then it gets confusing and people may think that all of it is or isn't right.  Even without that it can still be confusing though.

LD: Having your own goals for yourself is fine, but having goals that you can use to serve God is even better.  When I used to live just to make myself happy (which I'm still trying to get out of that with God's help) I didn't feel good at all.  Then I decided that it was all stupid and a waste of time, and knew that it was time to start doing things for God before I missed the whole point in life.  Now I'm trying to obey God and find His plan for my life, and feel like I'm really living now and making a difference in the world.  Maybe others will do just fine by doing things their own way and not feel like I did, but I believe (there's that word again!) for myself that if I would have stayed this way, nothing would have changed the way I felt.

Sorry that I always say WAY too much, but when I start typing I sometimes need a little restraint ^_^:.  Nothing at all in the world will ever end this debate (except for in this area with "Okay, you guys need to act more mature.  Topic closed.") and I'm fine that it's that way.  I just want to share my own experiences and give out hope to find a new life.  I may not know it all (obviously) and I may sound pretty nuts occasionally (more obviously), but I do know what I believe and want others to belive too, so they can find a life better than ever imagined.

Okay then... I better get back to my college work already!  GAH!! *unchains himself from the computer*

Ah say now... let's bury the flame gun! (just an idea for a new sig)

Edit: Holy cow!  I can't believe I said that much stuff!!! X_X
« Last Edit: March 24, 2006, 08:30:15 PM by Yoshisaurus Rex »
(E I): o{D___(--I I): o(D___(o 8(= P)___(=(:  )@)___(3 I)}:O})+)___<( )=(: )) )
The cake is a lie, your base belongs to us, keyboard cat will play you off as you fall out of the bus.

« Reply #341 on: March 24, 2006, 09:36:15 PM »
Probably the most intellegent post ever to hit this topic.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #342 on: March 24, 2006, 09:50:50 PM »
Thanks.  In my opinion, not really but I'm just trying to be honest and humble while learning more about everything.  But it is probably one of my longest posts ever. "Is YR's constant talking a sign that he is wise and has a lot to say, or a fool who just has to say something?  Or both?!  Tuuuuuuuune in next time and find out!"

Now I'll try to give it a rest for a bit.

Edit: Does saying you're trying to be humble make you not humble?  I'll need to think that one over.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 02:33:52 PM by Yoshisaurus Rex »
(E I): o{D___(--I I): o(D___(o 8(= P)___(=(:  )@)___(3 I)}:O})+)___<( )=(: )) )
The cake is a lie, your base belongs to us, keyboard cat will play you off as you fall out of the bus.

« Reply #343 on: March 25, 2006, 01:14:28 AM »
How in the heck can you believe in "microevolution" and not "macroevolution" when the only difference between them is one of time and scale?

That's like saying you believe in water droplets but don't believe you can fill a container with enough of them.
What I was basically saying was the same thing as something Sapphira said in her last post. I don't know that "microevolution" is the correct term for the evolution I do believe in, though.

Whatever it's called, this very minor type of evolution involves only modifications made to already existing bodily structures for the most part. Macroevolution, which involves complete changes to bodily structures and the addition of new ones, is quite a different sort of thing. Thus the difference is not a mere matter of time and space.

I may exit this debate now, even if it isn't anywhere near over, because things like this tend to get me somewhat frustrated.
GEIANDGIRLCO DIRECT - The Sensitive Alternative

« Reply #344 on: March 25, 2006, 02:30:42 AM »
A bunch of small changes equals a big change.