This oughta leave a kid scarred for life....

[MEGAߥTE]

It's in the tattle text:

『ビビアン』よ　カゲ三人組の一人で　いちばん下の妹　・・・じゃなくて　弟ね　さいだいＨＰは『１０』で　こうげき力は『１』　ぼうぎょ力は『０』よ　これといった　とくちょうは　ないみたい　う～ん・・・　それにしても　カレって　なかなか　かわいいわね・・・　ひょっとしたら　あたしよりも　かわいいかも・・・　・・・て　やだっ・・・　あたしったら　なにを　かんがえているのかしら

Edited by - MEGAߥTE on 1/19/2005 6:01:36 PM

[smfan1085]

Nameneko -- PC?? Keeping the character male and transvestite seems far more PC than changing it to female.

Vidgmchtr -- I can't believe anybody - particularly a Mario fan - could NOT be sickened by something like this.

[Nameneko]

My error, that should probably be un-PC.  I'll change that later.  I did read the Japanese text and, oddly enough, it makes a bit of sense.  In the English version, Goombella gripes that Vivian is cuter than her, and then says something on the lines of, "what I am I saying?"  With Vivian a male in the Japanese version, that would make sense for Goombella to be, well, mildly disgusted (?) at the fact that a boy is cuter than her.

"There are no such things as stupid questions, just stupid people."

[Vidgmchtr]

"I can't believe anybody - particularly a Mario fan - could NOT be sickened by something like this."

Uhh, I'm not one of those close-minded idiots who find out something like this and go "Man, that's disgusting."

So, Vivian is a dude in the Japanese version and kissed Mario.....OH NO! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! THE APOCALYPSE IS COMING JUST BECAUSE A TRANSVESTITE KISSED MARIO!

Now, you see how completely stupid that sounds? Yeah, so, Paper Mario 2 is more risque when it comes to things like this, and is even more risque in the Japanese version.

But, don't you remember, Miyamoto-san stated before the release of the Gamecube, he wanted to make Mario more mature? .....Well, he probably meant graphically, but maybe he wanted to make the gameplay of some of the Mario games more mature as well, while trying to keep its family....genre.....thing. I stink at wording things like this.

Furthermore, I don't find homosexual things such as a guy kissing a guy sickening. In this case, Vivian in dude form pecking Mario on the cheek. So, they do it, you can't stop it. Doesn't affect me much at all. It's normal. Kissing is a gesture of love, and love is a normal thing. It's probably even more normal in Japan, because people there are even more open there than here in the states.

I'd say more, but the current temperature in my room is about 48 degrees, and don't feel like continuing.

[Master Mario]

Vidgmchter (or someting) Well put, there! I like how you think! We here are just as weird as them when it comes to how other countries see us. I mean, other countries have their own limits and customs. That's OK! We still need to learn that.

TMK fan since three years ago!

[smfan1085]

Bah! I might as well leave this topic. I can't get anywhere in talking about this when people just assume that being "gay" is OK.

And I hope that they aren't trying to make Mario more "mature" in the sense of putting immorality in the games. If that happens, I may lose my mind.

[Vidgmchtr]

Uh, dude, there's nothing wrong with people being gay. If the people choose to be gay, that's fine, they choose to. No one should just go up and tell them they're doing something bad and disgusting.

Okay, yes, it crosses a few religious boundaries, but remember, not everyone in the world is a Catholic. A lot of the Japanese people aren't Catholic at all. They're mainly Shintoists. It's not considered immoral at all in their religion to be gay.

So, if there are future Mario games that are a little edgy like this, just tell yourself, "It's normal in Japan".

Okay? So, please, never try and ask me why I am not so disgusted about something like this. I actually find this whole thing humorous. I have a weird mind, but I'm okay with that.

Edited by - Vidgmchtr on 1/23/2005 8:55:01 PM

[Master Mario]

Vivian is not........ ugh..... nvm. you left. But, seiously, consider some customs! Vivian most likely not want to live with him. It's different! Plus I've read that in Japan, Vivian IS a sister! If you read what they say in japanese. "The three Shadow" and then Vivian said "sisters". I'm not saying I'm a fruit. I'm saying sometimes other countries' customs are different from ours!

TMK fan since three years ago!

[Hope(N Forever)]

Woah!! I've never noticed this thread before - so that's where my new thread went to...

Anyways, does anyone here believe that this case is related to how Nintendo changed Birdo's gender way back when?

I am a pure Super Mario lover!!
...and in no point in the future will he ever be abandonded by me!
I will even drawn the best Super Mario comics ever to exist!!

[smfan1085]

OK, so I'm back. I want to make a few things clear.

First, I'm not a close-minded idiot. I'm just a Christian (specifically, a Catholic) who believes in objective truth and opposes behavior that violates natural and moral law. Normally, I wouldn't get so worked up about this; it's because the innocence of the Mario theme, which I've known and loved since age 6 and about which I have many fond memories, is being threatened. This kind of stuff matters to me. I am sorry if I misrepresented my cause a bit on account of being angry and upset.

Also, I want to make it clear that I'd much rather make friends than enemies in this forum. I don't want to seem hostile, but I do want people to know where I stand.

Anyway, maybe I am making too much fuss. After all, they fixed it up in the U.S. version, which I go by, as I said. So I say we should end this discussion.

[Vidgmchtr]

Okay. I never really was arguing though, more like telling you why I wasn't disgusted with the fact that Vivian was a dude in the Japanese version and kissed Mario, and told you something like this isn't immoral at all in Japan, where the game (and pretty much all of the other Mario ones) come from, because people there aren't Catholic.

Edited by - Vidgmchtr on 1/24/2005 9:08:52 AM

[WanWan]

"If the people choose to be gay, that's fine, they choose to."

We don't.  But thank you anyway.

I respect everyone's religious beliefs and it's okay to not agree with homosexuality, but I hope everyone in this topic will extend those who disagree with THEM the same respect.

From everything I've heard, even though there's more queer exposure in the media in Japan--games and anime and such--when it comes to actually living there, they are perhaps even more intolerant of gays than Americans.  I knew a ******* who had lived with a family in Japan for 2-3 years and had seen gays treated horribly during her time there, and was terrified to let anyone know about her orientation.  So despite yaoi and yuri and Shintoism, there's prejudice everywhere.

Oh, and about Vivian saying "sisters," notice that after he says that he oldest sister calls him an idiot and corrects him.  I think the implication was that he WANTED Mario to think they really were all sisters when they're actually two sisters and a brother.

ETA:  Did that word SERIOUSLY just get bleeped?  Oh no everyone, better watch out what you type, TEH GAYE might be spreading!

Edited by - WanWan on 1/25/2005 11:12:29 PM

[Master Mario]

Mind bein' nice to the mailbag peoples? lol. They run the place!

TMK fan since three years ago!

[Nameneko]

WanWan: What does Shinotism have to do with the previous two??

[Mr. Wiggles]

Wanwan's gay! I never knew that. But I'm pretty sure gays choose to be gay. Also, I can't stand religous zealots who force their beliefs down people's throats!

_____________________________

Dang Jackie, I don''t want to kiss a short, pale and poor girl.
-Michael Kelso, That 70''s show_