Print

Author Topic: Meta Banned  (Read 2721 times)

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« on: October 01, 2011, 10:09:49 AM »
Meta Knight has been banned from competitive Brawl, effective early next year.

Personally, I'm still not sure I understand the reasons for banning certain stages, so banning a character really baffles me.  Is MK really that overpowered?  I never thought so.  I've seen him beaten just as often as I've seen him win.  Now, on the one hand, I do tend to get a bit tired of seeing him in a huge number of matches.  The need for diversity is probably the only reason for banning MK that I can get behind.  On the other hand, I get the feeling that for a lot of people it's not so much an issue of diversity as it is an issue of "Meta Knight is too hard to counter, I don't want to do the work."  And that I can't get behind.

Admittedly, I don't play the game competitively, so maybe I'm understating just how overpowered MK is.  Maybe someone else has a more informed position regarding the matter.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 12:13:31 PM »
Well I never had much of an issue facing against Meta-Knight, but my competitive play was rather early in the games life, so people likely found more for him. I hate the idea of banning a character, though, and he's not even one that I play.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2011, 12:36:52 PM »
Meta Knight is my favorite character, but Pikachu was probably my toughest opponent.   
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

TEM

  • THE SOVIET'S MOST DANGEROUS PUZZLE.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 01:38:36 PM »
lol 2011 and Nintendo never patching a competitive game for balance.
0000

« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2011, 04:05:13 PM »
Probably because Masahiro Sakurai harbors anti-tier sentiments.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2011, 04:14:26 PM »
Nintendo is too libertarian to balance the game for weaker characters.
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2011, 06:37:24 PM »
Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition is a fairly balanced game and even it has tiers. There's just a far smaller gap between the really awesome characters (S tier) and the not-so-awesome-but-still-alright ones (C tier at the very worst).

Why can't Brawl make some progress? It has G tier for Christ's sake.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2011, 07:20:39 PM »
BlazBlue: Continuum Shift has tiers with pretty wide gaps between them, but that doesn't mean Iron Tager (bottom-tier) can't beat Litchi (top-tier) if played well.

The only reason a character should need to be banned from competitive play is if they are inherently good in such a way that no other character is viable in competitive play. The usual example here is Akuma in Super Street Fighter II Turbo.

If a character is being banned because they're being played well and the majority of tournaments are being won by players using that character, then the people deciding a ban is necessary need to stop being such ******* and figure out how to actually beat that character and/or need to get better at the game. (Or play a different game, if they don't like that this one is dominated by one character and players who know how to use that character well.)

« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 07:31:28 PM »
^ that, entirely. C'mon, Nintendo, people care enough about this that they'll buy the same game over and over if the balance is adjusted, it'll just be easier if you do patches so scrubs don't have to make up their own rules.
"We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something very special." Stephen Hawking

« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 09:55:44 PM »
the people deciding a ban is necessary need to stop being such ******* and figure out how to actually beat that character

Haha, but the majority of players in the Brawl competitive community are *******.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 11:37:43 PM »
Meta Knight isn't THAT overpowered exactly, just that he's seen to have zero disadvantageous matchups in pro play. So if you're picking him for that level, there are no "what if my opponent goes with"s. The worst that can happen is Meta Knight vs. Meta Knight. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight. Or at least a sword with pointy branches. Not nearly as extreme as with SSF2T, like Warp said: Akuma is more like bringing a nuclear warhead to a game of duck-duck-goose.

Don't worry about it if you're not a pro player though. You can joke about it with your friends, yeah, but at the end of the day, what happens on those higher levels don't mean squat when you're on Pirate Ship with items flyin' around and four players staying up way later than they should. Especially considering that the game itself was more or less balanced taking Final Smashes into account. Pro play is really very very very different from what you and I are used to, so if you're thinking "I never thought character M was that great or that character G was that bad," that's why. What makes a character top-tier in advanced play is simply not seen in normal play.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 11:42:48 PM by BP »
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2011, 03:50:48 AM »
But smash balls are unfaaaaiiiirrrrrrrrrr
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Kimimaru

  • Max Stats
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2011, 03:58:21 PM »
The thing about Meta Knight isn't necessarily his power or defense; it's his priority. Most of his attacks have priority equivalent to air attacks, meaning they can't be canceled and either override other attacks or get overriden. This makes some of his attacks, including his neutral B and side B, unnecessarily hard to get through. Also, I think his Down Smash is ridiculously strong for how fast and spammable it is. I've had problems with some Meta Knights, but that doesn't mean I wasn't able to beat them. The biggest problem I had however, was that I was clearly more skilled than the other player and was having trouble simply because of the character he/she was playing as. I fully support this ban for competitive Brawl play (not that I play it competitively much anymore).
The Mario series is the best! It has every genre in video games but RTS'! It also has a plumber who does different roles, a princess, and a lot of odd creatures who don't seem to poop!

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2011, 05:48:46 PM »
See, and that's what I was talking about when I mentioned characters being inherently good. If his normals and specials have the same priority as other characters' aerials in a game where aerials are designed to be high-priority, and it makes him powerful to such an extent that he's unbeatable by other characters when two top-level players are playing, that might be grounds to boot the character from competitive play.

However, if it's still possible to beat that character in top-level play (and I wouldn't know whether or not it is, but I'd guess it's not impossible), a ban isn't necessary. Again, the correct solution is to play better and learn how to beat that character consistently. Banning in lieu of self-improvement shows a lack of interest in actually playing the game well.

« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2011, 02:06:36 PM »
Hard to say. Brawl is nearly four years old now and he has never not been number 1. I'm not exaggerating when I say that either: every other character has changed position at least once. The discovery of new techniques has not affected his ability to be the best in the slightest.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 02:10:41 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Print