Print

Author Topic: Mario Games Offline... Again.  (Read 8914 times)

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« on: June 16, 2013, 05:05:24 PM »
So, Nintendo has used what seems to be every excuse in the book to not include an online multiplayer mode for 2D (and more recently 3D) Mario games.

Some of you have defended their decisions to the death citing all sorts of reasons why it doesn't matter that Mario games aren't online, and even Nintendo tried stating that NSMB Wii wasn't online because the game by itself was "...pushing the Wii to its limits." Why any of you defend it confuses me.

Now that we are in the era of Wii U, they have literally no excuse to not include online play in multiplayer 2D or 3D Mario games, and you don't have any excuses either. There aren't any technical issues, the gameplay in NSMB U and 3D World has already been tailored for multiple characters on the screen, and other games that will be coming out (MK8, Smash Bros. U, etc.) will quite easily implement online even with their more impressive technical attributes.

So I must ask, why the crap not? The "it's about having friends over and bumping elbows" excuse is completely dead and makes no sense.
Formerly quite reasonable.

« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 05:49:11 PM »
"...pushing the Wii to its limits." Why any of you defend it confuses me.

Super Smash Bros Brawl. It was already a doublesided game with a large file size to begin with, and then they added multiplayer online. The result was that it was very laggy online and nobody ended up playing the multiplayer.

The "it's about having friends over and bumping elbows" excuse is completely dead and makes no sense.

Just because 20-40 year olds don't come over and play doesn't mean nobody does. Nintendo is a family company. Kids go over to their friend's house all the time.
Now with grandeur.

« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 05:57:16 PM »
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 07:00:10 PM »
I wouldn't play 3D World or any iteration of NSMB online; unless you have headset communication working for you during gameplay, it doesn't seem worth it. Even so, couch-proximity communication seems much more efficient for cooperative Mario games.

There's just something about Mario platformers that doesn't really feel right with online play... unless it's competitive; a race or anything that allows people to work independently (all the while against someone else) to a goal would work, because it doesn't require what I can only assume are ridiculously awkward exchanges like, "Let me pick you up" or "Go get that block." Mario games are too simplistic for that; hearing cooperative commands across the living room makes more sense than them being barked over wi-fi.
I'm a horrible person.

« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 07:02:44 PM »
Also they did try to implement sort of a competitive multiplayer in the original NSMB, but it didn't really work.
Now with grandeur.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 08:15:03 PM »
It's funny you made this topic Trainman, because literally the week before 3D World was announced, I was saying they should make a Mario MMO where the players could be multicolored copies of Mario, Luigi, Peach and Toad.

Super Smash Bros Brawl. It was already a doublesided game with a large file size to begin with, and then they added multiplayer online. The result was that it was very laggy online and nobody ended up playing the multiplayer.

:|
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 09:27:37 PM by The Chef »

« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 09:04:56 PM »
I think that if a 2D/3D Mario game were to include Online multi-player that it would have to be  designed from the ground up around this concept. Anything less would be a tacked on feature. I know I played online racing on Sonic Rush: Adventure and even though I was racing another human being I felt as if I was just playing time attack by myself -- it was sterile, and there was no interaction. I played Sonic4EpII online and while it did force you to work together it still managed to feel cold and distant. Off the top of my head I can't think of an instance where I played a 3D platformer with online multiplayer so I'm not sure how much it would add to the fun factor.

I think a 3D Mario would probably be more fertile grounds for an online experience, though that could just be my bias. But again, it would have to be built around that concept. You run into game design quandaries like what to do if your partner disconnects mid-level, when the level was set-up under the impression you would have X partners. You could have their ghost character be played by AI, but then it's essentially a one player game again and AI usually sucks; You can bounce the player back to a menu or a hub but that robs the game of momentum and angers the player. (I could really see the Super Mario Club hating that.)
Kweeh! Kweeh! Yes, Kweeh forever!

« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 09:27:49 PM »

 when the level was set-up under the impression you would have X partners.

This. NMSBWii didn't have heir levels built to accommodate multiple players, except gimmicks like levers, etc., and those were only or getting Star Coins and the like and didn't really heal you advance in the level. Thusly, you had 4 characters bouncing off eachother and not cooperating in the least, unless they had lightning fast reflexes. It also suffered from the fact that Yoshis could swallow other people, causing a lot of accidental deaths.
Now with grandeur.

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 03:49:04 PM »
Super Smash Bros Brawl. It was already a doublesided game with a large file size to begin with, and then they added multiplayer online. The result was that it was very laggy online and nobody ended up playing the multiplayer.
You've really got no idea how computers work, do you? A game being large in storage size has literally no effect on its playability online. Ideally, only a tiny bit of data, such as for instance the opponent's controller inputs and position, is sent over the network, and the console uses the resources that are already on the disk to display that character on the screen. A game could be a single megabyte, or a dual-layer 8GB DVD, and still send the same exact amount of data over the network in multiplayer.

The problem with Brawl's online mode is that either the programmers didn't optimize the network code well enough, resulting in too much data being required, or that Nintendo's network wasn't set up well enough to handle the traffic from online play. In all likelihood it's a combination of both.

From what I've heard about the Wii U's online service, it seems that those problems should be gone. I don't own one, so I haven't really been able to see it for myself, but if that is indeed the case, then I'm with Trainman. But, of course, if Nintendo deems that spending the extra time to develop online multiplayer for its games won't help them sell, then I guess there's not much that can really be done about it. Kind of a shame.
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

Suffix

  • Steamed
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 04:26:51 PM »
It's curious. I know that the DS was powerful enough to support decent online multiplayer in Metroid Prime Hunters, but for the Wii to fail at online Brawl? It's got to be a problem with optimization.

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 05:39:15 PM »
Just because 20-40 year olds don't come over and play doesn't mean nobody does. Nintendo is a family company. Kids go over to their friend's house all the time.

I wouldn't play 3D World or any iteration of NSMB online; unless you have headset communication working for you during gameplay, it doesn't seem worth it. ...hearing cooperative commands across the living room makes more sense than them being barked over wi-fi.

Just more shining examples of exactly what I'm talking about when I say people will make any excuse. Both of those don't make any sense. There's basically no reason why Nintendo couldn't do it and make it work; they just don't want to do it. It'd make things easier if Nintendo actually had voice chat, I'll concede that. Some of you people think that it's something that is unattainable. "well its not really designed for it and omg what happens if someone DCs and  what happens if there's no communication and man how would nintendo code such a feature in a game that is already built around the multiplayer aspect (3D world) hmm lets just not do it its too much trouble."

You still have no excuses. Some of you are allergic to online multiplayer. You are all horrible people.
Formerly quite reasonable.

« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 06:03:24 PM »
You are all horrible people.



they just don't want to do it


And with good reason. Try thinking of a way to put online multiplayer in a one player platforming game with terrain destroying mechanics that makes sense and will sell the game on just that alone. I challenge you.
Now with grandeur.

BriGuy92

  • Luck of the Irish
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 06:15:56 PM »
Take New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Replace a local player with an online player.

BAM
Know the most important contribution of the organ Fund science girls type. It's true!

Trainman

  • Bob-Omg
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 06:34:58 PM »
are you 12. that entire line you said about challenging me to figure out a way to make it work makes absolutely no sense.
Formerly quite reasonable.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 06:38:26 PM »
I think he actually is 12...

Print