could this happen?

[Mr.Mad]

i doubt they would would chage him even for a few extra bucks mario is the symbol of gameing if they change him they throw what they earned all the years away

[The Chef]

Not liking new games is okay, but not liking them purely because they have a new look or gameplay style is just plain stupid.

I didn't like the gameplay style because it wasn't fun to play with. If it were more interesting, I'd like it, but it pretty much sucks for a great franchise like Sonic. I think Sega shoul try something more along the lines of New Super Mario Bros.

[smfan1085]

Though, to be honest, my biggest problem with the recent Sonic games is not the "maturity" it's the fact that, well, they're terrible.  The 3D Sonics: Adventure, Heroes, etc. just aren't fun.  Sonic Advance and Rush, on the other hand, maintain the classically fun gameplay of the originals, while still having the "cooler" looking character designs, but without the crappy storylines and "serious business."

Argh... not another 3D Sonic basher!

There's nothing wrong with not liking the Sonic Adventure games, Sonic Heroes, etc., but it really frustrates me to see people calling them terrible and saying they suck over and over on VG message boards. I for one happen to like these games, especially Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, and I think that SA2B is one of the greatest Sonic games ever, even taking the original games into consideration. Like I said, it's fine to disagree, but openly calling them terrible and crappy just annoys me, especially after an argument I was in on another message board about it (though I can't see one that bad popping up here, since there was at least one egregious jerk involved in the argument there who has no equivalent on here).

[billy chilly]

My big beef with the 3D Sonic games (other than what I said about the "OMG SERIOUS BUSINESS!") is that, well, you rarely get to actually play as Sonic.  This wouldn't matter if the other characters' levels were, you know, fun.  If I wanted to play a bland shooter or a poorly made treasure hunting game, I wouldn't be playing SONIC.  Sonic games need to be about running fast, and crazy platforming--while running fast. 

My other problem with the 3D Sonics is that they all have the same problems... Sonic Adventure 2 and Heroes (I won't open up the old wounds of Shadow the Hedgehog) have the SAME camera problems as SA1.  The camera isn't incredibly bad, but it's bad enough to detract form the fun.  Sonic deserves better than these half-assed sequels, and thankfully, he still gets the quality he deserves in his 2D games.  That's not to say these games don't have their shining moments of awesome... they're there, they're just far too few to make up for the other gameplay flaws. 

3D Sonic could (and should) rule, but Sonic Team, for whatever reason, doesn't want to put in the effort to fix the problems with the Sonic Adventure formula. 

[smfan1085]

 ::)

The other characters' stages may not be fun in your opinion, but they definitely work for me, and probably for plenty of other players as well. I think the treasure-hunting levels are very well designed and fun to play, and the formula for them seems to work fine given that there are seemingly countless hiding places for the Emeralds. The shooting levels are pretty good too, IMO. My favorites are still the speed levels, but the others are not bad either. And IMO all the levels in SA2B are made worth playing by the fact that you can collect Chao-raising stuff in them.

The argument that the games aren't good because they go away from the original Sonic formula and have treasure-hunting and shooting levels added is pretty weak. A game can still be good if it goes away from the series' roots. Something new and different showing up in a game in a series can be a good thing. I just think the other levels add a pleasant sort of variety to the gameplay.

I don't think of the Sonic Adventure games as all "SERIOUS BUSINESS" either. They don't really seem more serious than the original Sonic games in my view, except that they have a distinct storyline in them. Sonic Heroes is the same way. Shadow the Hedgehog would qualify more as "serious business", but it's obviously a lot different from the other 3D Sonic titles before it.

As for the camera, it is a minor annoyance, but games with lots of glitches can still be quite good games with a lot of fun value.

[The Chef]

I always thought that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were pretty darn good, but nothing was really changed in the GCN remakes(and I like the old Dreamcast graphics better for nostalgic reasons).

Sonic Heroes, on the other hand, I found to be sloppy. The three-characcter gameplay was far too convoluted and watered down the speed and platforming parts. The speed sections were buggy and I'd always gat caught on walls or die for no reason while running thru a loop. In addition, It was hard to slow down because I'd immediately go at full speed when ever I touched the analog.
The power and flight sections were annoying because after 6-7 seven seconds of running, I'd have to stop and beat up enemies or fly upwards. This detracts from the speed and platforming that Sonic games are supposed to be about. Lastly(and this probably doesn't matter in the long run), the story was a joke(Shadow's return isn't explained very well, leaving plotholes) and some of the character's personalities were thrown off due to bad writing. The only good thing that came out of this was the return of The Chaotix Crew.

[SolidShroom]

I have to agree, the sonic adventures were great games, in fact some of the bbest Dreamcast games(sould calibur and chu-chu rocket are pretty good), but Sonic heroes was a disappointment for the series. Hopefully, Sega will start making sonic games good again.

P.S. I find it funny that 10 years ago, no one could predict that Sonic,Crash and Mario would all be on the same system.

[smfan1085]

I like Sonic Heroes and Shadow the Hedgehog also, though I like the Sonic Adventures better, especially SA2B. I've never played the Dreamcast versions (and I've never played a dreamcast either).

[SolidShroom]

Shadow the hedgehog made me want to puke. Now that There has been a sonic shooting game, what will be next, Mario Gear Solid? Or how about Mariohunt? or Grand theft Mario?

[The Chef]

Shadow the Hedgehog suffers from all the same problems a Heroes, and introduces a few new ones.
-The mission-based gameplay with the ability to choose your side felt very rushed together.
-Shadow's main attacks were lowered in power to make room for the guns(which were unnecissary but they were forced into the game).
-Sometimes you have to drive vehicles which are slower than Shadow himself.
- No matter which side you've chosen,The guys fighting for your side(aliens/humans) will still attack you.
-The Chaos moves are not useful(Control warps you ahead, but you'll miss whatever you need to complete the mission and there's never enough enemies to use Blast on).
-Th final battle is an exact rip-off of the one from Heroes.
-The storyline is pathetic. It's a lame attept to be 'dark' and 'edgy' but it's exteremly stereotypical.*
-The character's voices are the horrid ones from the 4kids dub of Sonic X.*
-Shadow says '****' every three words in another lame attempt to look 'mature'.*
-The prblems from Heroes I mentioned before are on a far worse scale.
-The graphics are sub-par for a Gamecube/PS2/Xbox game.*

*(these don't have an affect on the crappy gameplay, but they're still annoying)

[smfan1085]

Shadow the hedgehog made me want to puke.

AHEM. There we go again with the inflammatory comments.

Now that There has been a sonic shooting game, what will be next, Mario Gear Solid? Or how about Mariohunt? or Grand theft Mario?

This argument doesn't make sense due to the fact that the Sonic series, with its "cool" sort of air about it, is and always has been more suitable for changes to please the older gamer crowd (regardless of whether such changes are really a good thing or not) than the Mario series, which by its very nature must remain more or less family-friendly.


The Chef's post below the one quoted is more reasonable, citing some causes for dissatisfaction with certain aspects of the game (though it still contains words like "crappy").

[SolidShroom]

You have to admit that Sonic was better when it was more kid friendly. They tried to make it more mature and they screwed up. I am hoping that Mario never does this but it just might...unfortunately.

[smfan1085]

No, it will never happen with Mario. Think about it for just a few moments. A series about a cartoonish, jolly Italian plumber fighting a bunch of giant turtles, becoming "mature"? No way in the universe.

I think it was better when Sonic was more kid-friendly, but Shadow the Hedgehog is still good IMO, and it was honestly not that kid-unfriendly. (Sure, there is that one word appearing all the time in there, and I don't like that particular aspect at all, but I like other stuff about the game, and apparently my mom, who's strict about what games I get, doesn't have too much of a problem with this game, so I figure there's not much to worry about.) The game is nothing at all like M-rated games. If it were, I would want nothing to do with it.

[SolidShroom]

No, it will never happen with Mario. Think about it for just a few moments. A series about a cartoonish, jolly Italian plumber fighting a bunch of giant turtles, becoming "mature"? No way in the universe.

Ahem, cutsey charachters aren't like that forever.*cough*Conker*cough*

[Virtual_Boy]

Sonic deserves better than these half-assed sequels, and thankfully, he still gets the quality he deserves in his 2D games.  That's not to say these games don't have their shining moments of awesome... they're there, they're just far too few to make up for the other gameplay flaws.  

Yeah, I agree. I really liked Sonic up until anything after Sega Genesis. I think it started going downhill from there.

PS. You can say "assed" on the board?!?o_O