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Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. 4 Wii U and 3DS  (Read 94564 times)

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #450 on: November 13, 2014, 11:12:26 AM »
At least other people argue against too many characters for the sake of competitive balance.  This guy apparently just wants to be able to play as only the protagonists from only the most popular Nintendo titles, and wants the same constraints for everyone else.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #451 on: November 13, 2014, 02:25:19 PM »
Balance among a huge number of characters is possible. Project M has 42 and even the worst ones aren't considered bad, really, just not quite as good as the top. With how unexplored it is, who knows what the real best and worst characters are... I can't say anything specific that will last, though, because 3.5 launches tomorrow and everyone's getting tweaks. I am excited, even though Lucas is probably getting stabbed with the Nerf Knife a few times.

A good number of Melee's characters are viable at top-level play, and the current official tier list is arranged to reflect that--eight characters are considered top, and the six afterward are considered to be pretty good. That's more than half of the roster, which is quite good considering that everything good about Melee from its gameplay to its balance was probably an accident. Brawl, it's hard to really know anything about other than that Meta Knight is far far far above the next-best. Because nobody talks about Brawl.


three different Links, etc.
That's not a thing that's happening. And I don't want to hear a word suggesting Wind Waker is less deserving of representation than Twilight Princess, or any other Zelda game at all
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

The Chef

  • Simon Cowell
« Reply #452 on: November 13, 2014, 05:02:12 PM »
With Zelda there's at least a precedent for that. It's pretty well-known that there are in fact multiple guys named Link from one game to the next.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #453 on: November 13, 2014, 06:15:37 PM »
Balance among a huge number of characters is possible. Project M has 42 and even the worst ones aren't considered bad, really, just not quite as good as the top.
I don't disagree, and Project M would probably still be my favorite SSB to play if it had Mega Man and Robin.  But still, some people do argue that balance can't happen with a lot of characters.  Of course, that's more an issue of developers' willingness to fine-tune it than their ability.  Of course, we're about to see a precedent set for official balance updates with the next SSB4 patch...
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

« Reply #454 on: November 13, 2014, 06:45:34 PM »
I personally think we should cap the character count at 16 (and 12 for Mario Kart, which I'd prefer less in only because you can't race 16 at once--or maybe you can in the new one; I've only played the Wii U version once).

This is satire, right?
YYur  waYur n beYur you Yur plusYur instYur an Yur Yur whaYur

« Reply #455 on: November 15, 2014, 08:50:51 PM »
I feel like characters being buffed and nerfed after the game's release would make it harder to learn that character's strategies and stuff. What if your strategy with a character involves a kill move that's been nerfed? What if your strategy against a character involves avoiding a move that becomes harder to avoid? Those are perhaps extreme examples, but I really hope they don't release too many of these balance updates. Besides, how many times will we have to delete replays because they don't work anymore?

And I think you guys might want to give n64forever a break. Yeah, only having 16 characters is pretty dumb, especially since you don't HAVE to use all the characters outside the 16 you think shouldn't be in, but it's obvious he's not a very hardcore gamer or anything, and he might be too old fashioned for all this newfangled huge roster of characters he doesn't recognize mumbo jumbo.
Relics.

« Reply #456 on: November 15, 2014, 09:26:36 PM »
TheMightyThor, you hit it on the head, I'm sort of old-school (hence the username) and definitely don't play as much as I used to (that's what happens when a little thing called work gets in the way...to those of you still in school with time to kill, make the most of every minute, whether it's games or something else).

Back in the day I'd play a few hours of games almost every day, but nowadays it's mostly if I have a free weekend and none of my pals have plans--or if I've had a really tough day and need to blow off steam--there is nothing better than a video game to do that!!

As much as I like the SSB series, I will retain my opinion that there's still a ton of characters. I have played my share of fighting games and, plainly put, like to keep things simple. This is something I feel the original SSB did a very good job with, even if it was a limitation of the system and/or game pak capacity.

Here's my two cents on this, and you can take this or leave it, comment or rip it apart, etc: All SSB games to this point have been 4 player games. Let's say you go with a theoretical 16 character roster without redundancies (i.e. no Mario and Dr. Mario). You only have, at most, a quarter of the roster on the screen at the same time. Character rotation is still very much possible. Additionally, you can master a character's moves a little easier if you only focus on one or two, plus you can get to know what the others do a bit better, even if you seldom play as them.

This may sound like it's going to make the game too easy for a more serious gamer, but I've played SSB with guys more serious than me and it's been pretty intense--even if we have been playing the game since 1999. Knowing the enemy and having the enemy know you makes for better strategy. How will you outfox Fox he knows what you can do as Mario? When I play Brawl, it's the opposite--I barely know any of the characters, and they barely know what you can do. I played Brawl a few months ago with someone who had no idea Peach could put people to sleep, and he got really confused by it. In a way, there's some good to that, but it's harder to come up with specific strategies to target individual characters.

I feel it's all a matter of preference, and I'd love to see a new SSB with a toggle switch on the character screen much like for items. This way "house rules" could apply--i.e. you can only select from a few characters. If you've been to casinos where they have seemingly random house rules, you know exactly what I'm talking about here.

Finally, and perhaps this proves that I'm not as serious as some of y'all, I like to actually know who the characters are. With the original SSB, I wasn't sure of Ness at first since I didn't have Earthbound (although I have played it since SSB came out) and didn't know Jiggly Puff (mostly because I never got into Pokemon; I did know Pikachu since he was everywhere in 1999...take one trip down an aisle at Target and he's on half the products). That's 2 out of 12. Not bad. In Brawl, I think I knew about half the characters. However, this is also sort of a great marketing device from Nintendo--going back to the Marth and Roy example, people knew who they were because of an already popular game, so perhaps they would be more willing to try out their games. Likewise, if someone hasn't played Earthbound, perhaps they will get it on the Virtual Console (I think it's out on Wii U) to see who this Ness guy is.

Just a few thoughts from a guy who's not getting any younger or getting any more free time...and who started out with an Atari 2600 where character selection was pretty much not a thing!!

WarpRattler

  • Paid by the word
« Reply #457 on: November 16, 2014, 07:35:26 AM »
I understand where you're coming from, and as a proponent of competitive balance, I'm all for smaller rosters in fighting games, but being a Nintendo fan and not knowing who Jigglypuff was at the height of Pokémon fever is pretty [darn] strange.

« Reply #458 on: November 16, 2014, 08:49:12 PM »
I understand where you're coming from, and as a proponent of competitive balance, I'm all for smaller rosters in fighting games, but being a Nintendo fan and not knowing who Jigglypuff was at the height of Pokémon fever is pretty [darn] strange.

Ah, perhaps I should explain--by the time 1999 rolled around, I was mostly focused on the established series. I didn't get Nintendo Power or any other gaming magazine and just bought the strategy guides for the games I had (this was before you could just go online and find quality walkthroughs or videos, and if sites did exist, they mostly seemed to have tricks/tips, not necessarily full walkthroughs--ah, the days of dial-up). Typically, I'd learn about games outside of those I played through friends or the newspaper (yes, I'm showing my age, I know), and most of the guys I knew who were into Nintendo were Mario/Zelda people to begin with.

It probably also helps to know that I didn't have a Game Boy. A little research revealed the first games were exclusive to it. None of my close buddies at the time had one, either (although a few of us did splurge for the Advance by the time it came out--I mostly got one for Mario Kart Advance).

The first I heard of Pokemon was Summer 1999 when it started appearing on literally everything at the stores. They had a report about it on the local news and they said who Pikachu was, so that's how I learned his name. I only learned Jiggly Puff when I got SSB.

I was 13 at the time and while a lot of people say Mario is "kiddy", I felt Pokemon was "kiddier". (If that word didn't exist before, it does now). I actually passed on Mario Party since I felt I was older and wanted more mature games, and Pokemon just looked like something for younger kids, so I ignored it entirely. I think this had more to do with being 13 than anything :)  Incidentally, I just bought Mario Party 2 for N64 this past year on eBay and while it does have some kiddy elements, I'm kicking myself for not looking past its exterior because it's actually pretty darn fun!!

Perhaps if I were 10, not 13, I would have given Pokemon more of a chance, but I was one of those 13 year olds who was too anxious to grow up. Now I'm that 28 year old who wishes he hadn't...

« Reply #459 on: November 17, 2014, 12:31:03 AM »
What the hell, you're 28?! I thought you were almost a decade older.
Relics.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #460 on: November 17, 2014, 02:07:33 AM »
I feel like characters being buffed and nerfed after the game's release would make it harder to learn that character's strategies and stuff.

What's worse, having to relearn everything about Little Mac or the only thing you need to learn about him being Don't Use Little Mac

This way "house rules" could apply--i.e. you can only select from a few characters.

You'd better have some good beer or something if you'd do this and still expect guests!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 02:13:21 AM by BP »
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

« Reply #461 on: November 18, 2014, 10:47:04 PM »

You'd better have some good beer or something if you'd do this and still expect guests!


Hmm...currently, I've got a local microbrew and some Sam Adams on hand...plus I usually have Mexicoke sitting around :)


TheMightyThor: I think the reason you'd think I'm older is because I started with a 2600. My mom bought this system when she was in grad school in the early 80s. I got started on it when I was 3 years old. It took a few years to get an NES, but even then, the 2600 was still my favorite for a little while. Then, my dad bought me a game called Super Mario Bros 3, and let's just say the 2600 got neglected a bit...

« Reply #462 on: November 20, 2014, 11:34:31 PM »
Posting just to announce my glee that as of my typing this, Super Smash Bros. 4 Wii U has been released in the east coast of North America!

I'm not getting it until Christmas, though.
Relics.

Jman

  • Score
« Reply #463 on: November 21, 2014, 10:10:57 AM »
Here we are...the morning of the release of both this game and the Hoenn remakes.  Nintendo's about to make some serious cash this holiday season.
I always figured "Time to tip the scales" was Wario's everyday motto.

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #464 on: November 21, 2014, 02:40:20 PM »
On the default Wii U controls, L and R are shield and ZL and ZR are grab. On the Classic Controller, that's the same as the Gamecube controller (triggers shield, bumpers grab), but on the GamePad and the Pro Controller, it's the reverse (triggers grab, bumpers shield). You can change that per profile in the control customization (which means you have to remember to select your name every time you play any mode), but as far as I can tell, the GamePad, Classic Controller, and Pro Controller can't be changed separately -- all three are grouped under "Standard Controller". I'm not sure whether it would be easier to remember to select my profile every time I play anything, or get used to flipped controls (and then mentally unflip them back if I'm using a Classic Controller). Or just get a Gamecube adapter, which I was going to do today and forgot.

Other than that, it's great.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:42:10 PM by CrossEyed7 »
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

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