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Author Topic: The Death Penalty is...  (Read 15457 times)

nensondubois

« on: September 21, 2008, 11:44:44 AM »
Since logic indicates that the death penalty is still considered murder I disprove of it completely for the sole reason that America is supposed to be a society meanwhile we do horrible things that disprove that making us still barbarians. Do the people who pull the switch go to hell?

Your opinion on the death penalty is...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 11:52:53 AM by nensondubois »
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 12:36:45 PM »
The death penalty is... killing people to show people that killing people is wrong.
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 12:51:44 PM »
The death penalty is... justice.  And a lot of people won't like my saying this, but it's been around since Bible times when God established it in Israel.  The death penalty isn't murder.  Murder is the unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially with premeditated malice.
The death penalty is punishment for murder (among other things).

"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Shyguy92

  • Ridicules
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 01:00:06 PM »
Quote from: Turtlekid1 on September 21, 2008, 12:51:44 PM
Bible times

Back then you'd get killed or worse for stealing bread
"it's always the present"

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 01:02:13 PM »
No, for stealing, you would have to pay back who you stole from in full (as opposed to going to prison to be nursed and fed by the government and our tax dollars for the rest of their lives).
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 02:11:55 PM »
You'd get killed for stealing bread in most other nations at the time, but not under the law of Moses, which is kind of the point. Israel was meant to be a beacon of God's grace.

I support the death penalty in theory, but since our justice system is so imperfect, I'd prefer a life sentence in most cases. But the death penalty should definitely be on the table for cases where it's extremely clear that the defendant is guilty of something really heinous.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Nintendoobsessed

  • Goomba
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 02:19:35 PM »
If they are given a life sentence...

...a chance the criminal may escape arises.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 04:05:37 PM »
Like, a 6% chance. They don't give them a life sentence in a daycare center, y'know.

I think a life sentence is probably the more punishing of the two. Giving the criminal their entire life to think about what they've done until they die, plus the chance of getting shanked/raped, is certainly justice.
every

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 04:26:01 PM »
Quote from: Glorb on September 21, 2008, 04:05:37 PM
Like, a 6% chance. They don't give them a life sentence in a daycare center, y'know.
Six percent?  I think it's more like one-half percent for state prisons and almost zero for federal prisons.  If we only look at death row the percentage drops to about one-tenth. 
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 04:29:40 PM »
Plain and simple, there are certain people in this world who just don't deserve to live. Besides, depending on the length of the sentence, and the severity of the crime in question, life in prison might actually be more cruel than the death penalty. I mean, get a lethal injection or be stuck in a building with burly butt-rapers for sixty years?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

CrossEyed7

  • i can make this whatever i want; you're not my dad
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 04:34:39 PM »
Well, to really weigh the death penalty against life in prison, you'd have to get into the question of what the afterlife (or lack thereof) entails. Until anything about it can be proved (which will never happen), I think the government ought to assume the worst.
"Oh man, I wish being a part of a Mario fan community was the most embarrassing thing about my life." - Super-Jesse

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 04:42:04 PM »
I don't think the government should assume anything about the afterlife or lack thereof. 
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 04:43:42 PM »
It shouldn't, but it generally does, as that's a great way to control people.
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

nensondubois

« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 05:08:21 PM »
Religion is a form of control and is governments and corporation's main stronghold. State sanctioned murder is still murder and is never justifiable.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 05:11:04 PM by nensondubois »
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

MaxVance

  • Vance Vance Revolution
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 05:11:46 PM »
The death penalty is not particularly effective as a deterrent. If it were, there would be a lot less violent criminals than there are today.

Besides, what if a convicted criminal is later found not guilty? We can free them from prison and make reparations, but we can't raise the dead.
Remember that your first Goomba boldly you walk? When Mario touched that mushroom being brought up more largely remember that you are surprised? Miscalculate your jump that pit remember that it falls?

Eclipsed Moon

  • srsly
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2008, 05:53:30 PM »
Such as the 100+ year old cases of Charles Hudspeth and William Jackson Marion.  These days, that's a lot less likely to happen, but there have at least been people put on death row in somewhat recent times whose convictions were later overturned, and it is quite likely that innocent people on death row have been executed.

nensondubois

« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2008, 06:03:09 PM »
That's yet another reason a federal ban should be put on it. Besides humans are animals just classified differently by ourselves, it just a "social" way to make ourselves seem better. People bull[dukar] themselves so many ways including our age as a faulse sense of security. It's human nature to kill and be violent, accept it. Boy society is so very wroooooong.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

PaperLuigi

« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2008, 07:10:44 PM »
The death penalty sucks. We should have mercy on other people even if they killed someone. Unless someone requests to be sentenced to death, we should not administer the death penalty to anyone.

Nensondubious, how can you view religion as something bad when it inspired a boy to do this.

Seriously, you are the most paranoid member on this site. You're afraid of the police, you think that the government is always acting under a conspiracy, and now you think religion is the government's "main strong hold." If you haven't noticed, we are free to be atheist in this country. Get a grip. Start worrying about other things like living your own life free of your fear. If you don't like the government, get out of America. Trust me, I was just as paranoid as you were at one time about everything the government was doing until I just stopped worrying and focused on other things.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:19:48 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2008, 07:18:54 PM »
PaperLuigi, I don't think you're paranoid enough.
That was a joke.

PaperLuigi

« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2008, 07:23:15 PM »
What's there to worry about? Everyone is paranoid and bitter now because Bush is in office. Once he leaves and everyone likes the new president, the paranoia will stop. I hardly heard anything about government conspiracy (other than his stupid sex scandal) when Clinton was in office. This paranoia only came about because people dislike Bush.

Hell, when people liked Bush, no one was scared of government conspiracy. Everyone loved the fact our president was doing the best he could to insure our own safety. After he screwed us over in Iraq, people freaked out. Paranoia goes away with the times. It won't stick around past our next president. Just because we have one bad president now doesn't mean our whole world is crashing down on us.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:26:48 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2008, 07:59:56 PM »
You're using terms like "no one" and "everyone" way too freely, at least. There have always been people with conspiracy theories, but beside that, those people are pretty likely correct about some of it.
That was a joke.

PaperLuigi

« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2008, 09:28:20 PM »
The point is I don't see religion as something that the government "uses" to control me. Nensondubious can't possibly understand religion because he isn't religious. I see it as something that influences me to do good things in this life, and I also see it as something that unites me with other people. Why is that a bad thing? I'm not asking Chupperson, I'm asking nensondubious.

To be perfectly honest, I oppose the death penalty because of my religion. See Matthew 5:38-42. Nensondubious, when you and I agree with banning the death penalty, and I do it because of religious reasons, do you still think it's a form of control? Do you still think the government is using my religion to control me when the two of us both oppose the death penalty? Yes, the government has problems, but if I can freely choose to oppose the death penalty (which the government implements) based on my religion, are they still "controlling" me?

Yes, I've read the passages that say that we should punish those that do wrong, but Jesus came to Earth and rewrote the law (according to our religion). He states this several times in the New Testament.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 09:59:31 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Kojinka

  • Bruised
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2008, 04:08:23 PM »
The Death Penalty is flawed when it comes to justifying the wrongs.
The justice systems make mistakes too.  If a convict's innocence is proven after the execution, there's no way to correct the mistake.  An innocent citizen has been killed for a crime he or she did not commit.  Where is the justice in that?
Regards, Uncle Dolan

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2008, 04:20:17 PM »
Quote from: PaperLuigi on September 21, 2008, 09:28:20 PM
To be perfectly honest, I oppose the death penalty because of my religion. See Matthew 5:38-42. 

...

Yes, I've read the passages that say that we should punish those that do wrong, but Jesus came to Earth and rewrote the law (according to our religion). He states this several times in the New Testament.

1. That passage applies to taking an eye for an eye personally.  It's meant to warn people against vigilanteism, not the government doing its job.
2. He rewrote what he said he rewrote.  I don't recall him rewriting any law concerning capital punishment in the New Testament.

"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

PaperLuigi

« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2008, 04:29:35 PM »
When he said "You have heard that it was written, " and then said "But I tell you," he was effectively rewriting the old ways in the Old Testament (like taking an eye for an eye).
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2008, 04:33:51 PM »
*sighs*
Please read my above post before repeating what you already said.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

PaperLuigi

« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2008, 04:56:03 PM »
Don't act irritated. I honestly can't believe you're supporting capital punishment when you're a Christian. Aren't we supposed to be...I don't know, meek or something? I really regret creating the War topic a few months back.

So you think when he said "turn the other cheek" he only meant citizens should follow it? I guess that means the government can kill whoever they want now.

Sorry, but I honestly can't believe Jesus would support killing others after they killed someone else.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 05:02:52 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2008, 05:26:28 PM »
Please don't take that as being irritated.  I'm not irritated, but I am a little surprised that you don't think capital punishment is biblical.  Meekness has nothing to do with justice.  And it also doesn't mean the government can "kill anyone they want", either (what I meant by vigilanteism was anyone taking the law into their own hands instead of into court).  That's why there are court sessions and trials, to decide whether they should be put to death.

Jesus supports... you guessed it--justice and righteousness, whether it has to do with murder or any moral issue.

I really am sorry if I came off as irritated, that wasn't my intention.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

PaperLuigi

« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2008, 05:35:58 PM »
Yeah, but didn't he say that we humans aren't supposed to pass judgement? I don't doubt that Jesus supports justice and righteousness, but we're supposed to leave that up to Him. I just don't think I could sentence a person to death, nor support the death penalty, knowing that I'll be judged if I pass judgement. The only thing we need to do as humans is make sure the perpetrator never harms another person, and I don't think killing him is the right way to do it.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

nensondubois

« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2008, 05:38:19 PM »
@ everyone: I am religious but not in the sense of Roman Catholic. I believe in different a from of Catholic because some conventional beliefs or ideas just don't make sense to me. You took my definition "strong hold" a little too seriously. Maybe I'm paranoid because my age.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

PaperLuigi

« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2008, 05:40:59 PM »
I read it as "Religion is just a form of control" rather than "Religion is a form of control." My bad.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2008, 07:51:37 PM »
Quote from: PaperLuigi on September 22, 2008, 05:35:58 PM
Yeah, but didn't he say that we humans aren't supposed to pass judgement? I don't doubt that Jesus supports justice and righteousness, but we're supposed to leave that up to Him. I just don't think I could sentence a person to death, nor support the death penalty, knowing that I'll be judged if I pass judgement. The only thing we need to do as humans is make sure the perpetrator never harms another person, and I don't think killing him is the right way to do it.

When God says not to pass judgment, he's talking about the hypocritical kind: doing something wrong and judging someone else for it.  He does want us to pass justice.  That's also why God appoints leaders and governments, so what needs to be done can be done and not decided by any one person or any one subjective view.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:13:30 PM by Turtlekid1 »
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2008, 08:14:07 PM »
Whooaaah, hey what? God appoints leaders and governments? What?
You want to talk about humans being human... humans can't help being subjective.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 08:16:00 PM by Chupperson Weird »
That was a joke.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2008, 08:17:26 PM »
Quote from: Chupperson Weird on September 22, 2008, 08:14:07 PM
Whooaaah, hey what? God appoints leaders and governments? What?

"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2008, 08:21:43 PM »
.......????????
That was a joke.

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2008, 08:23:10 PM »
That's a picture of Bush when he found out he actually doesn't rule by divine right.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2008, 08:23:32 PM »
Quote from: Chupperson Weird on September 22, 2008, 08:14:07 PM
Whooaaah, hey what? God appoints leaders and governments? What?
Quote from: Turtlekid1 on September 22, 2008, 08:17:26 PM


Post of the Year!  That's funny on so many levels and from several points of view.  Nice.
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

PaperLuigi

« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2008, 08:26:35 PM »
I believe the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully.
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2008, 11:21:27 PM »
1) PL is my least favorite member now because he stole my line.

2) I have an oddly hard time discerning whether or not TurtleKid's post is sarcasm or not...

3) Luigison killed the funny by saying the four magic words.
every

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2008, 11:22:53 PM »
I'm having a really hard time figuring it out.
That was a joke.

MaxVance

  • Vance Vance Revolution
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2008, 12:18:40 AM »
I think Turtlekid1 was trying to be funny but (mistakenly?) owned himself instead.
Remember that your first Goomba boldly you walk? When Mario touched that mushroom being brought up more largely remember that you are surprised? Miscalculate your jump that pit remember that it falls?

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2008, 06:16:25 AM »
Quote from: Glorb on September 22, 2008, 11:21:27 PM
2) I have an oddly hard time discerning whether or not TurtleKid's post is sarcasm or not...

If I can stump Glorb, there may yet be hope for me.

Quote from: Chupperson Weird on September 22, 2008, 08:14:07 PM
You want to talk about humans being human... humans can't help being subjective.

Yes, it's true every human is subjective regarding morality and their beliefs.  But no stranger off the street is going to be biased against a murder suspect one way or another until he hears both sides of the story.  At that point it's actually good to be morally subjective, so the right conclusion to the case can be reached.

"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2008, 08:02:34 PM »
ProTip: You don't want to confuse people in a political discussion unless you don't know what you're talking about and want to escape looking like you do.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

Forest Guy

  • Anything else?
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2008, 04:18:03 PM »
If this thread's title is supposed to be fill in the blank then...
"The death penalty is... awesome."
"The death penalty is... delicious."
"The death penalty is... cuddly."
= = = = = = =
Agender, curry fan, Top 10 lister, indie dev, gym hitter, musician, et al.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2008, 08:24:05 AM »
"The Death Penalty is... after three fouls, the player is shot."
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

nensondubois

« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2008, 07:28:02 PM »
The death penalty is a contradiction of so-existing American values.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2008, 10:12:33 PM »
"So-existing"?
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

Luigalaxy

« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2009, 01:18:22 PM »
Currently existing is what he means.

nensondubois

« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2009, 08:58:53 PM »
I meant supposedly existing.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.
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