Evolution in school and whatnot

[PaperLuigi]

Mutations are harmful, not helpful.

Mutations are sometimes extremely beneficial. It's what allows certain species to survive. Mutations lead to survival, which (in turn) leads to evolution.

I wanna hear from the guy who doesn't believe in evolution but isn't religious.

[Koopaslaya]

Of course evolution should be taught. Of course the holes in the theory ought to be explained. Of course Intelligent Design is just a glorified name for Creationism.

Teach the facts. Show the evidence. Explain what science can tell us. That's the job of science, right?

I'm not sure that the debate is a proper topic for the science classroom, but the idea of Intelligent Design needs to be addressed because it's gaining wild popularity. I think the the idea of Intelligent Design, especially in this modern context, needs to be explained to students so that they are better equipped to handle the debate. Perhaps this is in the better interest of speech or English classes, however, since the overall telos of a since class is to present scientific face to learn the hows of the world.

[dc804]

I believe evolution should be taught in public schools. Religion should not be influenced on other kids in public schools. That is all I have to say.

[Turtlekid1]

I'm assuming you meant to say "imposed" there.  Either that or you were making an ironic statment. 

Turtlekid is confusing me here. Yes, their genes were created with the ability to adapt, but they were most certainly not created with predetermined knowledge of what they were going to have to adapt against and mutate into. Plenty of mutations are helpful. Would you like to be unable to breathe oxygen?

Good thing God created us with that ability. :P

[The Chef]

So you were saying everything is predetermined.

I get it now. Turtlekid just can't comprehend science. -_-

[Turtlekid1]

RAH EVOLUTION IS NOT SCIENCE

[Chupperson Weird]

That doesn't change the fact that you blatantly disregard and/or cannot understand what the rest of us have been saying.

[Glorb]

If I stress this anymore, I think I'll end up spontaneously combusting:

EVOLUTION IS NOT A THEORY, OR A MINDSET, OR ANYTHING. It is a COMPLETELY INTEGRAL PART OF HOW NATURE WORKS. Things make babies. All the time. Sometimes, things make babies with an extra flipper, or a funny-shaped arm. Sometimes those babies die because they're unfit to live in the environment. Sometimes those babies live, since that extra flipper or fin or ear or hairy back allows them to evade predators or brave the cold or swim better, because of SHEER LUCK. And those babies that live longer turn into adults and mate, SOMETIMES passing that rait down. Eventually, with LOTS OF LUCK, the "old" members of the species die out in THAT PARTICULAR AREA. This is fact. And because humans got lucky and have the ability to take care of ailing or disabled humans, chances are we will not be evolving any time soon.

[ShadowBrain]

I said it should be regarded as fact because, well, there's an overwhelming amount of evidence in its favor--and it just makes sense. Of course, nothing is certain, and who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm confident enough that I didn't choose the last option.

[Turtlekid1]

Evidence?  Has someone found a transitional form or a complete geologic column?

OKAY.  This is going to be my last word on the subject, for I grow weary of trying to make a point that none of you apparently want to understand.

I think I'll start with a hypothetical assumption, as irrelevant as it may be.  Let's assume that there is no God.  Just suppose God, Buddha, Allah, or any other form of deity does not exist.  Now let's assume that despite (quite literally) astronomical odds, a big explosion happened in space for no apparent reason.  Even slimmer is the chance that this explosion would form one planet or star.  Slimmer still are the odds that this explosion would form (again, literally) countless planets and stars.  Imagine how small of a chance this is.  You got an imaginable number in your head?  Then obviously you're doing it wrong, because no human mind could imagine those odds.  But I'm not done yet.  Imagine, if you will, the ever-slimmer odds that one of these planets is exactly the right distance away from a star to have a climate not only within tolerance range of life, but within optimum range.  Now, let's suppose that through STILL SMALLER chances, the atmosphere of this planet is also one that just happens to be a perfect combination of gases and elements needed to sustain life.  Okay.  NOW, suppose that with all these extremely unlikely accidents happening, that life beings on earth.  The question of how this can happen, considering that pesky Law of Biogenesis, is one to be answered another time; this is all hypothetical.  Let's just suppose for the sake of argument that this happens too, against all odds, which, if they were inconceivable before, are even more so now.  Let's imagine that over millions of years, this life has gone through some mutations, each with a one-in-several million-chance of happening, let alone being passed on to future generations.  Let's also suppose that all the other animals without these mutations die out.  Warp several million more years into the future, and you have planet Earth, A.D. 2009.  The global situation is grim, to say the least.  There are religious nuts everywhere fighting and debating to the death that theirs is the only true religion.  Conflict and wars abound.  Moral issues and debates plague this era more than any other.  Lawmakers squabble about such matters as the sanctity of life, the definition of marriage, the environment, and many, many others. 

I fail to see how any of it matters.  We were the result of an accident.  No God exists; there is no higher purpose.  We might as well just do whatever the heck we want, because if we're accidents, what right does anyone have to determine morality or the greater good?  The only right is what we decide for ourselves.  Down with government and laws!

With me so far?  Let's take the other hypothetical route.

Let's assume that there is, in fact, a God.  Let's assume that this God, for reasons known only to him, decides to create an entire universe.  He places (quite literally) countless stars and planets in the sky.  He makes at least one planet capable of supporting life, not only within tolerance range, but within optimum range.  He places, on at least one planet, life of every sort, containing genes of every sort, allowing for near-limitless variety in species.  Suppose then that he then creates a substantially different creature from the rest.  He loves this creature deeply.  How deeply?  No human mind could imagine the depth.  He creates this creature and tells him to take dominion over the planet he's on.  Tells him to be a good steward.  Naturally, being the all-knowing God he is, he also creates a wife for the man, so they too can reproduce and fill the earth.  Warp several thousand years into the future.  It's A.D. 2009.  The global situation is grim, to say the least.  There are false religions everywhere, constantly quarreling with other religions and your own faith, fighting over which is the true religion.  Conflict and wars abound.  Moral issues and debates plague this era more than any other.  Lawmakers squabble about such matters as the sanctity of life, the definition of marriage, the environment, and many, many others.

God has commanded us to obey his laws, and that's what we need to do.


Obviously, this touches on more than evolution.  I may well have missed something, so if anything seems incomplete, I apologize.

BOTTOM LINE:

Evolution = Accident, no morality, nothing awaiting us but oblivion.
Creationism = Providence, absolute law, eternal life for the soul.

[PaperLuigi]

That doesn't change the fact that you blatantly disregard and/or cannot understand what the rest of us have been saying.

Evolution doesn't disprove God. It doesn't shatter the foundation of morals and/or society. It simple explains something that occurs naturally in biological beings.

[CrossEyed7]

Is it that he can't understand your points, or is it that you can't understand his reasons for disagreeing with your points?

[The Chef]

Both.

[PaperLuigi]

[Glorb]

Let's say a god does exist, and he/she/it really did create all life as we know it. That doesn't mean evolution doesn't happen. The way I see it, the existance of a higher power is irrelevant in this discussion. So is morality. Believing in evolution doesn't make you a creationist or an atheist or an agnostic or anything. It means you understand how life works.

Look at it this way. Logically speaking, if you don't believe in evolution, then you shouldn't believe in genes, or the passing down thereof. If people who don't believe in evolution actually realized what they weren't believing and followed it to its logical conclusion, then they would also not believe that they inherited geen eyes from their parents. Of course, everybody knows you pass traits to your kids, because that's a visible thing. But the two are one in the same. If you refuse to believe in evolution, you might as well just say people grow out of the ground, or get delivered to their parents via stork.

Evolution happens. Deal with it.