Mariology (serious posts wanted)

[jmdblazer]

Also is Yoshi's island part of the Mushroom Kingdom?

[Chupperson Weird]

No, it's part of Dinosaur Land.

[Fawful Fan]

Here's a new Mariology debate!  Lately, Mario has been traveling to space and I couldn't help but notice a few things.  Back in Super Mario Land II, he needed a full space suit to survive on the moon.  In Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, he travels there without one.  In Super Paper Mario, he needs a fishbowl to survive, while in Super Mario Galaxy he doesn't.  Some gamers would just ignore this and label it an inconsistency, but being the geek I am I've been thinking about the nature of outer space in Mario's world for quite some time.

I still think space in the Marioverse is still a vacuum, since Mario still wears a space suit occasionally.  But maybe there are special oxygen nebulas, or clouds of air, that create temporary patches of "livable space" that provide air and protection from solar radiation.  Or perhaps large celestial bodies in the Marioverse share an "expanded atmosphere" that spills into space.  And other ideas?

[Robert]

Here's a new Mariology debate!  Lately, Mario has been traveling to space and I couldn't help but notice a few things.  Back in Super Mario Land II, he needed a full space suit to survive on the moon.  In Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, he travels there without one.  In Super Paper Mario, he needs a fishbowl to survive, while in Super Mario Galaxy he doesn't.  Some gamers would just ignore this and label it an inconsistency, but being the geek I am I've been thinking about the nature of outer space in Mario's world for quite some time.

I still think space in the Marioverse is still a vacuum, since Mario still wears a space suit occasionally.  But maybe there are special oxygen nebulas, or clouds of air, that create temporary patches of "livable space" that provide air and protection from solar radiation.  Or perhaps large celestial bodies in the Marioverse share an "expanded atmosphere" that spills into space.  And other ideas?

Rosalina mentioned at the beginning of SMG that the Luma in Mario's hat allowed Mario the survive in Outer Space. Also, in Super Paper Mario, Mario travels to another dimension, so I think it probably has different physics that would allow anyone to survive in outer space (as long as they have a breathing apparatus). As for the Thousand year door, well, maybe the Moon in Mario's world has oxygen and protection from solar radiation?

[BP]

Goombella comments on the big glass dome of the X-Naut Fortress being there to hold in air, even though they were just fine outside. Then she tells you to just not think about it too much. Which is what I do with most illogical things in Mario games.

[N64 Chick]

Rosalina mentioned at the beginning of SMG that the Luma in Mario's hat allowed Mario the survive in Outer Space.

Slight problem with that. If memory serves, she just said that it "lets him travel in space" and Mario was on that bunny planet for some time before actually meeting up with her and getting the Luma. But seeing as I've never actually played SMG myself, I'm sure I'm completely wrong.

[CrossEyed7]

I always assumed Mario passed out from lack of oxygen after falling away from the castle (which Bowser and/or Kamek had presumably surrounded with a magical bubble of oxygen), and didn't wake up until he landed on the bunny planet, which had a little bit of an atmosphere (but not much, which is why the music sounded light-headed-ish). You don't actually explode in space, at least not right away. And I'm guessing that the ability to travel through space that Tyke gave him includes the ability to breathe.

Goombella comments on the big glass dome of the X-Naut Fortress being there to hold in air, even though they were just fine outside. Then she tells you to just not think about it too much. Which is what I do with most illogical things in Mario games.

That reminds me, someone on TVTropes had a theory that Mario can only breathe in space when he's not thinking about it. In TTYD, Goombella convinced him not to think about it, and he was fine. In SPM, Tippi told him he couldn't breathe, and he couldn't, but once he put on something that looked like a space helmet, he tricked himself into thinking he could.

[The Chef]

The Launch Stars are connected by transparent/magical "tubes" that transport Mario from one planet to another. Every planet and object you can walk on in SMG has it's own atmosphere, allowing Mario to breathe.

[Fawful Fan]

That reminds me, someone on TVTropes had a theory that Mario can only breathe in space when he's not thinking about it. In TTYD, Goombella convinced him not to think about it, and he was fine. In SPM, Tippi told him he couldn't breathe, and he couldn't, but once he put on something that looked like a space helmet, he tricked himself into thinking he could.

That makes sense.  It's like that cartoon law of physics where a person doesn't succumb to the laws of physics until he or she notices that they're broken.  Like when a cartoon character walks off a cliff, he won't fall until he notices that he should fall.

[Luigalaxy]

Tubes? I thought of them as a chute of gravity in space that ends when you make it to the planet/destination (if it has gravity).

[CrossEyed7]

New theory: Super Mario Galaxy is the bridge between the main games and the sports games. (stop reading if you haven't finished SMG)



When the universe was recreated at the end, it basically became the theme park version of the universe as seen in the main games (SMB, SM64, SMRPG, etc.). Characters and locations were recreated that really shouldn't be coexisting, like Mario and Baby Mario, or Luigi's old mansion and Luigi's new mansion, the new Bowser was just a rude party-crasher, and the Koopalings may have gotten left out of it all.

Currently, I'm only applying this once, and the only games that I'm putting in the new alternate universe are the Sports, Kart, and possibly Party games (see below). I don't think it needs to be used to separate the 2D games, the 3D games, the M&L series, the PM series, and everything else into its own universe (or even every game, as some have suggested); but as a single, one-time event, it's the tidiest explanation I can think of for how Mario and Bowser went from mortal enemies to sharing a kart.

The Mario Party games are usually said to take place in Mario Party Land. This could be the name of the new universe, or it could be another parallel universe entirely.

[The Chef]

I tried the same thing by saying Melee was the Infinite Crisis. It isn't really worth it.

[Turtlekid1]

But then Brawl could be Final Crisis...

[CrossEyed7]

TVTropes is way ahead on that one. Scroll down to "Mario is an alternate universe counterpart to Superman."

But this is different, I think. There's not multiple coexistent universes merging together or whatever, just one universe being completely replaced by a slightly different universe. And unlike the Crises, it actually simplifies things, IMO. It precludes the need to explain Bowser being clearly ready to murder Mario in one game and then helping him win a board game in the next.

I probably mentioned this before, but most major Nintendo franchises do already seem to be in the same universe as Mario (Zelda, F-Zero, Metroid, Pikmin, and maybe Star Fox), even counting Smash as completely non-canon, as I do.

[The Chef]

Nah. Bowser just wants to beat Mario in any way he can, and that includes intruding on his off-time.