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Author Topic: Cloning, genetic research, and the like  (Read 10058 times)

Glorb

  • Banned
« on: September 20, 2008, 10:44:42 PM »
So, cloning and other such ilk: Good, or bad? For, or against? Ethical, or maybe not so much?

Personally, as long as they're kept in check, I think cloning, as well as stem cell research, are extremely important. Opposing either because it's "playing god" is a terribly petty reason for doing so. Wanting to put an end to research that could cure any number of previously incurable diseases because of religious beliefs has got to be the most amazing example of hypocracy I can think of.
every

« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 11:39:22 PM »
Stem cell research, to me, is pointless. We're all going to die one day. And according to atheists (who all seem to be advocates of stem cell research and cloning), we stay dead after death. Which really makes me wonder...what's the point? Just because we cure a disease doesn't mean we've escaped our fate. We've only delayed the inevitable. No matter how many diseases we cure through stem cell research/cloning, we can't cure the biggest disease of them all, which is death.

Cloning is also pointless. Just because you've made a copy of yourself means nothing. The copy can be identical to a person on a genetic level, but unless he/she is brought up in an identical environment, he/she will display traits that are completely opposite of the original. Humans are rather foolish to believe they can "live forever" through a clone.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 11:48:34 PM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

BP

  • Beside Pacific
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 12:00:43 AM »
This is where I really defeat myself. I can talk about how the government shouldn't regulate this and that but I'm really against choosing the genes for to-be-born children to change eye color, affect mental potential, etc. But that's just my belief, that it's wrong... but believing the government should not regulate things like, say, gay marriage "Because it's just wrong," that's no reason to regulate manual gene selection. So instead of that I'll just give the evil eye to parents who do this. It's almost exactly the same as creating a Pokémon with perfect stats, moves, and abilities using a cheat device, and that's something to be frowned upon. The difference is that we do know for sure who created the "world of Pokémon" (that is, the games) and they don't want players to cheat.

As for cloning, I don't see too much wrong with that. Unless your intentions are to make the clone a fanged evil version of the original so that you have a formidable underling to do your bidding, or if it's cheating in Pokémon. That's not a good thing. A cloned person will just be a person with the same genetic makeup as the original, which without religion in mind isn't really terrible...

Blacked for your convenience, highlight for my long speech about stem cells or skip. But this is my argument for "We're all going to die someday."
Stem cell research could lead to the discovery of cures for terminal diseases, which wouldn't be that bad at all. Hmmm... let's say my sister is dying of cancer. Would it be wrong of me to want to save her? The fetus whose stem cells could do it would be born to a pair of irresponsible teenagers who got drunk one night and voila. Well, they're either going to have him aborted or try to raise it because if he's born there's no sending him to an orphanage. Then the girl gets with another guy, so it's the guy, the baby and the new, unwilling grandmother (and she does not like to hold that title so young) of the baby. The grandfather doesn't really want anything to do with him but the grandmother is just too sweet to abandon him. Time spent with his father is time spent almost completely unsupervised, which is whenever the grandmother is working or spending time away from her train wreck of a life. So the baby is now three or maybe three-and-a-half and can't talk because no one has taught him to. He just screams. And hits. He'll destroy a get-together so he can't be taken to dinner. His life will be pretty short, living in a valley with a brown sky in a smokers' home, liable to become a smoker himself at an early age. That is, if he lives long enough to let that kill him--his father's also involved in gang activity. Now, I didn't just make all this up. Everything after the word "orphanage" is true of a family I know. The point I'm trying to make--that poor child is not truly loved and will live a life a fraction as great as it could be, but some cancer patient would have loved to live the life ahead of them, become an author and seen the world... selfish, perhaps, and all men are created equal. So I'm already battling this one out in my brain--I simply cannot choose a side on abortion. But I will say that if you're going to end a life before it starts, save another one if you can. Like when you have excess eggs in Pokémon. You could fry 'em up for a convenient recovery item and save your established team members, or take the thousand or so steps to hatch it and release it to something else to raise it at the expense of your established team members. Which is right?

I can't believe everything I just typed. I guess Pokémon is a pretty realistic game.
All your dreeeeeeams begiiin to shatterrrrrr~
It's YOUR problem!

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 12:05:14 AM »
PaperLuigi has utterly confused me. There's no way any sane person would believe that a clone of themself would be the same person. The original wouldn't be around to experience the clone's life, either.
Also, what the heck is wrong with wanting to stay alive as along as possible? That's pretty much Instinct #1.
That was a joke.

« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 12:12:50 AM »
If the clone isn't completely identical, why make one? I thought that was everyone's reason for trying to make a clone. I mean, why not just make a baby? And if you can't and want to leave something of yourself behind, why try and do it that way? There are other ways to leave behind a legacy. Besides, you're obviously going to die and forget everything anyway.

To be honest, I don't really believe that life is pointless, I'm just wondering why Glorb said that not supporting stem cell research for religious reasons was hypocritical while supporting it for atheistic reasons is equally hypocritical.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 12:42:03 AM by PaperLuigi »
Luigison: Question everything!
Me: Why?

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 12:18:06 AM »
I haven't heard of anyone trying to clone themselves in hopes that they will somehow live on in the clone. Like I said before, that's totally illogical. The clone might be identical, but that wouldn't make it the same person. A person is created by their experience. So I don't think you're correct in assuming that in the first place. The reason people advocate cloning is for stem cell therapy.
That was a joke.

Glorb

  • Banned
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 11:12:41 AM »
I say that blocking off life-saving research because it's done in a way that the bible says is bad is, well, bad. Does the bible say it's okay to stop hundreds of thousands of people from dying slow, painful, emotionally draining (for both themselves and loved ones) deaths so you can save one life that, for all you know, could grow up and become a junkie that doesn't do a single thing with his/her life? Even if it doesn't, and I'm sorry to put it this way, hundreds of thousands of people are more important than one single person.

And, yeah, PL, I think you miss the point of cloning. Some people could use it to have children if they're incapable of doing so, for example. Or you could use it to grow a specific organ that you've lost, since it would be compatible with you. Cloning's not just about making a copy of yourself just for kicks. Besides, it would take years to grow up to become the same age as you were when you cloned yourself, and by then you'd be twice that age.
every

« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 11:25:55 AM »
I'm completely against cloning and genetic manipulation for many reasons I don't feel like explaining right now.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 01:00:53 PM »
I say that blocking off life-saving research because it's done in a way that the bible says is bad is, well, bad.

Only in the eyes of one who doesn't look on the Bible as a code of law.  You have to remember that millions of people worldwide take every word in the book, myself included, very seriously.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

Luigison

  • Old Person™
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 01:29:58 PM »
By "very seriously" do you mean absolute truth? 
“Evolution has shaped us with perceptions that allow us to survive. But part of that involves hiding from us the stuff we don’t need to know."

ShadowBrain

  • Ridiculously relevant
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 04:41:27 PM »
Stem cell research: Yes
Cloning/genetic modification: No
"Mario is your oyster." ~The Chef

« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 05:11:19 PM »
Stem cell is fine if fetuses don't get harmed or their DNA in any way.
ROM hacking with a slice of life.

The Chef

  • Super
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 06:39:42 PM »
That's not possible. The point of stem cell is to use and aborted fetus as a subject for research. My views are that if a woman decides to get an abortion, then the fetus shouldn't really be wasted. It's the same thing as getting a cremation as opposed to being buried, except in this case it could potentially cure previously incurable disease.

My stance on abortion by itself however, is a whole other ball game.

Chupperson Weird

  • Not interested.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 07:09:50 PM »
I don't think nensondubois knows what DNA is.
That was a joke.

Turtlekid1

  • Tortuga
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 04:38:32 PM »
By "very seriously" do you mean absolute truth? 

Yes.  And I'm very serious.
"It'll say life is sacred and so is death
but death is life and so we move on"

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